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  1. #41
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    582

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by tortugapir8
    Oh look, more updates for Druids, Warlocks, and Death Knights...

    Rogue love? Mage love? Priest love? Are Shamans even in the game still?


    Sigh.
    Apparently no one really follows the update pattern or what Blizzard themselves have said. Updates for classes happen in cycles, much like the original class reviews in the pre-BC days. They are looking at a small amount of classes, comparing them to others, and then trying to change them appropriately. If they feel at a later time that one of these classes is still lacking, they will make more changes.

    Mages got A LOT of changes early on, they were one of the first major updates I remember reading about (but maybe thats bc I play mage). But anyway, I still see regular tweaking of the mage class, and we even just got a huge new spell (if it works right). Give them time, they can't publish changes for 10 classes every patch, or balance would be near impossible to reach.

    Major changes followed by tweaking

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,376

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    In that case it seems druids "cycle" has been going on for a loooong time now, and since the ptr coming up soon (from what they said) something like priests will be last .
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  3. #43
    Zainfear
    Guest

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Grub
    Apparently no one really follows the update pattern or what Blizzard themselves have said. Updates for classes happen in cycles, much like the original class reviews in the pre-BC days. They are looking at a small amount of classes, comparing them to others, and then trying to change them appropriately. If they feel at a later time that one of these classes is still lacking, they will make more changes.

    Mages got A LOT of changes early on, they were one of the first major updates I remember reading about (but maybe thats bc I play mage). But anyway, I still see regular tweaking of the mage class, and we even just got a huge new spell (if it works right). Give them time, they can't publish changes for 10 classes every patch, or balance would be near impossible to reach.

    Major changes followed by tweaking
    As a warlock I hate to say this but... This mage speaks the truth.

  4. #44

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible
    In that case it seems druids "cycle" has been going on for a loooong time now, and since the ptr coming up soon (from what they said) something like priests will be last .
    well! atleast be happy that priests will get it, shaman, as always will prolly not have their polish ???

  5. #45

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz
    well! atleast be happy that priests will get it, shaman, as always will prolly not have their polish ???
    Shaman already have had several polish passes. Were you not paying attention? Deep Elemental is actually worth spec'ing now. When the beta first went live, it was so terrible nobody was even thinking about putting points in it.

  6. #46

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by rothomp3
    Shaman already have had several polish passes. Were you not paying attention? Deep Elemental is actually worth spec'ing now. When the beta first went live, it was so terrible nobody was even thinking about putting points in it.
    u mean... one slight change to one talent and one replaced by another one, which is as crappy now as the last one? YEA, thats what we fear off, that THAT was our "polish" and we wont see anything else. and btw all we got at this was getting 40dmg+ on flametongue and moved LB coef part to another one and slightly buffed, gimme a weed, thanks
    also if u wanna know how many important issues do we have, chceck shaman boards, u will find handfull of important issues, which cant be solved by looking at them and tweaking 2 numbers

  7. #47

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Shaman haven't had their polish pass yet.. i mean for one thing the new ranks haven't been applied yet... like windfury ranks ablve 70 dont proc.
    It's just a game.

  8. #48

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    didnt see this item on your list, and, its fairly obvious it comes from jedoga shadowseeker, but, just so you have it up.

    Autonomy 85 Orc Death Knight US Area 52

  9. #49

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Panoramixe
    It's the first decent post balance druids have gotten since alpha, doubt you can complain about that.
    Rogues have gotten a lot of love in beta, so have mages, priests and shaman; you can't expect EVERY post to be about your class though.
    Uh, what? Balance druids have gotten tons of attention. Look at your tree. Also, Blues have gone on the record multiple times about your "bloat" and stuff and how they want it that way. You haven't been ignored. Look at your fucking utility, is there a caster buff you DON'T provide?

    You know who's getting the shaft? Destro locks. They promise to look at us, then for the next several weeks the only things that happen is Aff locks get to crit 2 dots and they ask for feedback on the worthless 51 point Demo talent. ZERO info about destro locks, especially shadow destro.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)
    We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.

  10. #50

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by tortugapir8
    Oh look, more updates for Druids, Warlocks, and Death Knights...

    Rogue love? Mage love? Priest love? Are Shamans even in the game still?


    Sigh.
    Sweet merciful christ, relax. Release is a long way off.

  11. #51

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by justify
    Sweet merciful christ, relax. Release is a long way off.
    No, it's really not. That said, the person you quoted should still relax, every indication is the internal builds are running considerably ahead of the beta releases.

  12. #52

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by stupid11
    Uh, what? Balance druids have gotten tons of attention. Look at your tree. Also, Blues have gone on the record multiple times about your "bloat" and stuff and how they want it that way. You haven't been ignored. Look at your fucking utility, is there a caster buff you DON'T provide?

    You know who's getting the shaft? Destro locks. They promise to look at us, then for the next several weeks the only things that happen is Aff locks get to crit 2 dots and they ask for feedback on the worthless 51 point Demo talent. ZERO info about destro locks, especially shadow destro.
    They also said we'd get new starfall ranks over a month before they actually added it (they're not even working properly though), they promised to reduce bloat weeks ago without any news. They promised to fix typhoon weeks ago, still nothing. They said eclipse wasn't quite were it should be, now it seems GC is happy with it (nothing has changed, it's still worthless). They also said they'd make E&M valuable for more than 2-3 points, still didn't happen.

    Yes they have said a lot things, we've seen nothing. Compared to other classes which have seen massive CHANGES, this is just sad. No a promise they might fix something isn't a change, Kalgan himself said we'd get a dire cat form which later just proved wrong.

    Balance druids have been treated like this last expansion too and we aren't as viable as other classes, we need work and Blizzard doesn't seem willing to do it.
    (Kalgan and GC have said they dislike balance druids in official posts, just proves how in touch they are with their own inventions.)

    Yes we've been given utility, same for every other class. The amount of buffs barely matter since there will be a lot of overlap anyway. None of our utility is unique or better than the counterparts, while for example ele shamans bring the only spell haste buff and the best spell damage one. Also utility is worthless if our dps will be too low to actually warrant a raiding spot, which with our crappy itemized gear seems quite likely.
    And we don't have a talent to improve spell damage or mana regen, which are pretty much the most important. Just mentioning for your statement.

    I am whiney, i'll admit it. But with reason, balance druids have been the bottom of the food chain for far too long.

  13. #53

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Can people please stop with the "Blizzard hates <my class>", "no <my class> changes again" and "they forgot about us" posts? I've seen these posts for every class and although some definitely have it worse than others, that should at least tell you that you're not alone in thinking you're left behind. There are a lot of classes that need changing, that's why it's a beta.

    If you think something needs changing, post constructive feedback rather than insisting that Blizzard hates you. There is still a lot of time to make changes before and even after the WOTLK release. It's also a good idea to keep in mind that true balance can never be achieved with 10 classes that all have many different abilities and talents.

    This isn't directed at anyone specifically, there are many constructive posts here as well

    Edit: Yeah... the post below me is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about.

  14. #54

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Panoramixe
    They also said we'd get new starfall ranks over a month before they actually added it (they're not even working properly though), they promised to reduce bloat weeks ago without any news. They promised to fix typhoon weeks ago, still nothing. They said eclipse wasn't quite were it should be, now it seems GC is happy with it (nothing has changed, it's still worthless). They also said they'd make E&M valuable for more than 2-3 points, still didn't happen.

    Yes they have said a lot things, we've seen nothing. Compared to other classes which have seen massive CHANGES, this is just sad. No a promise they might fix something isn't a change, Kalgan himself said we'd get a dire cat form which later just proved wrong.

    Balance druids have been treated like this last expansion too and we aren't as viable as other classes, we need work and Blizzard doesn't seem willing to do it.
    (Kalgan and GC have said they dislike balance druids in official posts, just proves how in touch they are with their own inventions.)

    Yes we've been given utility, same for every other class. The amount of buffs barely matter since there will be a lot of overlap anyway. None of our utility is unique or better than the counterparts, while for example ele shamans bring the only spell haste buff and the best spell damage one. Also utility is worthless if our dps will be too low to actually warrant a raiding spot, which with our crappy itemized gear seems quite likely.
    And we don't have a talent to improve spell damage or mana regen, which are pretty much the most important. Just mentioning for your statement.

    I am whiney, i'll admit it. But with reason, balance druids have been the bottom of the food chain for far too long.
    Im sry, what? Balance "druids", bottom of the food chain? I laugh at that comment. At least as a balance druid you can heal and dps at the same dam time. And you whin at your talent tree, pfft. Im a holy pally and I can tell you this: Lets for one entire month switch talent trees then see how much you have it made. Try working with "ONLY" one spell class thoughout this game then tell me how it feels once your locked from it. Try having every single healing spell cost godly amounts of mana and heal for little.

    Don't come on here and say crap like this. Pallys have been lied to, nerf to hell, nevered given the respect they deserve in this game since reckoning bomb was our aka. Where a joke in ALL areas in this game. Everyone can aoe heal, everyone gets a new healing spell (in the last 3 yrs), Everyone brings something to the dam table. We never once recieved a new healing spell in 3 yrs. Where still the single target gods that we are, but this game has moved on from single trageting.

    Into these buffs that ret is getting, EVERYONE only knew ret as one thing: LOLRET.

    Prot was always good but there was little to no items for a prot pally.

    Holy "was" the best single healer in this game, now there also a joke. Now instead of LOLRET it's LOLHOLY. The "Only" where viable in is 5s which is sad. These days ppl complain about anything. I still remeber S1. Thats when holy pallies had there shine. But the cries came and right after S1, the nerf train came by and beat the living heal out of us.

    Where do you see pallies in arena now? Forget single target healing, Shamans have taken that place now. The pally have been disrepected for far to long. While everyone else get buffs, we only dream of them.

  15. #55

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    I laugh at the guy who thinks Boomkins can heal effectively.

    Oh, it's an Angerdin, what a shock.

    I'm deeply, deeply sorry for you that they took reck bomb away from you.
    Really.
    /sadpanda

  16. #56

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    To the person who cried about lack of Rogue updates;

    I've been running level 80 instances as PvE Mutilate and it really does feel 100% polished. You can get everything you need in Assassination for a perfect Mutilate, Envenom & Hunger for Blood cycle. You can pick up the 3 vital combat talents without wasting fillers. (Precision, Dual-Wield Spec, "Close Quarters Spec" aka Dagger Spec) and you can grab Opportunity/Relentless in Sub, also.

    With Instant Poison critting regularly for 2K, and landing on every swing (now you can achieve "hit cap" and "poison cap"); it's very easy to maintain 5 stacks of Deadly Poison via Deadly Brew. You can't actually generate combo points fast enough to use up the Deadly Poison charges. You'll always have a 5 stack before you can Envenom again. Which means SnD is constantly refreshing itself. The whole style finally feels, well, final.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about not seeing many more Rogue updates. Combat is reasonably polished and Subtlety has been paid quite a bit of attention lately. I'd expect a few phases of modifier/PvP tuning and Rogues will be ready for the shelf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm
    Since my post count is rougly 10x yours I'll give you a big STFU because I'm obviously your superior

  17. #57

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Balance druids cannot be allowed to be "solid" for pvp purposes. They have far too good BASELINE CORE ABILITIES. They can shift to avoid any and all snares. They have 2 highly armored forms to allow them to fend off caster's greatest weakness, melee. <Bear and Moonkin>. They have a spamable nuke, they have the ability to heal themselves in wotlk with their +spelldmg turning directly into highly scaling +healing with HOTS. They have the ability to run away from anything that isn't a paladin They have solid CC with cyclone and roots. They have a heavy nuke that can stun if left alone in arena style pvp.

    They have core abilities that give group utility, innervate <previous a deep resto talent>. They still provide rebirth in pve encounters as balance. Dreamstate gives them much better mana management than other casters as well.

  18. #58

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Panoramixe
    They also said we'd get new starfall ranks over a month before they actually added it (they're not even working properly though), they promised to reduce bloat weeks ago without any news. They promised to fix typhoon weeks ago, still nothing. They said eclipse wasn't quite were it should be, now it seems GC is happy with it (nothing has changed, it's still worthless). They also said they'd make E&M valuable for more than 2-3 points, still didn't happen.

    Yes they have said a lot things, we've seen nothing. Compared to other classes which have seen massive CHANGES, this is just sad. No a promise they might fix something isn't a change, Kalgan himself said we'd get a dire cat form which later just proved wrong.

    Balance druids have been treated like this last expansion too and we aren't as viable as other classes, we need work and Blizzard doesn't seem willing to do it.
    (Kalgan and GC have said they dislike balance druids in official posts, just proves how in touch they are with their own inventions.)

    Yes we've been given utility, same for every other class. The amount of buffs barely matter since there will be a lot of overlap anyway. None of our utility is unique or better than the counterparts, while for example ele shamans bring the only spell haste buff and the best spell damage one. Also utility is worthless if our dps will be too low to actually warrant a raiding spot, which with our crappy itemized gear seems quite likely.
    And we don't have a talent to improve spell damage or mana regen, which are pretty much the most important. Just mentioning for your statement.

    I am whiney, i'll admit it. But with reason, balance druids have been the bottom of the food chain for far too long.
    Not really. My main was a balance druid for a long time. (Well resto first, went balance around 2.3). I still destroyed everyone except shadowbolt warlocks in Hyjal/BT most fights.

    +13% spell damage is a lot more important than +flat, non-scaling spell damage. And who cares if you don't have mana regen, it's 1) nerfed, and 2) only available to 3 out of 30 specs in the game, widely considered the lowest 3 DPS specs in the game too.

    And no, every class hasn't been given utility. Warlocks gained no new utility from BC, and because of the stacking buff changes, has gone down. A lot. Can't even use more than 1 healthstone anymore.

    Also, not every dev has to like playing every spec. Doesn't mean they won't be fair. Balance got a LOT, and I mean a LOT of wished for changes with Wrath, and you're already complaining about stuff you haven't even seen on a PTR yet? Trust me, you'll be viable. Let me name just a few big ones.
    1) Indoor roots. This becomes the 2nd best CC in the game for melee enemies. You can use it on anything, recast it before it ends, and the range/duration is great. (Compare to fear, seduce, freezing traps, sap, blind in those areas. And better than shackle/poly in terms of stuff you can cast it on.)
    2) AOE that's not on a cooldown. Couple your THREE aoe spells with your absurd armor, and moonkin could very well become one of the AOE classes of choice.
    3) Omen of Clarity applying to spells, a Moonkin Aura that regenerates mana based on spells, and more spirit on gear. Your mana regen has never been better
    4) Shittons more arcane damage buffs debuffs. Both personal and from the raid.
    5) AFAIK Nature's Grace will work with the GCD now, but I'm not sure about that.
    6) Reshuffled low tier Resto, allowing for a LOT more benefit for those points.
    7) Imp. FF gives spell hit

    Seriously, there's almost nothing that I had a problem with that wasn't changed for Wrath. The above problems were the only reasons I dropped my druid for a warlock. Almost wish I had stayed with him. (Almost.)

    Something like this will be a great spec, imo:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...05213305010231

    It has strong AOE too.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)
    We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.

  19. #59

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Seeing as you are a bit clueless on a few points I'll just sum up the mistakes.
    1) Arcane dmg buffs? Are you bloody serious? Go read that huge post that was on the main page explaining how raid buffs changed and don't stack anymore, you'll notice there aren't any school specific buffs left except for shaman's stormstrike.

    2) Good we got viable cc, took them long enough. It will help a lot finding a group in 5-mans, but it won't help in pvp nor raids. I love this change, but this isn't anywhere near overpowered or a reason to bring a moonkin to a raid.

    3) AOE: fine we're a lot better at this than in TBC, too bad mages and locks are still far better. In the end aoe is inferior to single target damage, which close to every boss needs, while aoe is situational.

    4) Imp FF gives spell hit, good it actually helps us. Now go look at this talent called misery in the priest's shadowtree. They get extra bonusses in the talent and get to keep the buff up through normal damage, so misery > imp ff.

    5) The lower resto tiers: We gain 4% spell damage, 10% int and OOC there.
    Too bad our int based talents got nerfed to near uselessnes. Lunar guidance got halved to 12% of int to spell damage and dreamstate will get skipped for intensity thanks to our massive amounts of spirit on gear. So the furor change is hardly noticeable. OOC is less good than a point in intensity, but it's nice. And master shapeshifter probably brings us on the same level more or less if Lunar Guidance wasn't nerfed.

    Locks have gotten some more raid utility from pets, not the best perhaps but they did get some.

    Just remember every class gets stronger, fixes aren't enough.

    ps. There is a full 25 page thread about moonkin issues on the eu forums and the new one is on page 16 now, a lot of people are concerned with reason. Most of the posters have tested end-game raiding (sunwell) and know bloody well moonkin have far more issues than that are so far fixed.

  20. #60

    Re: Dungeon loot, Paladin changes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Panoramixe
    They promised to fix typhoon weeks ago, still nothing.
    i wouldnt expect anything in that regard, since they nerfed shaman thunderstorm already

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