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  1. #21

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    I've seen several other changes to priests other than this one and I doubt they're done. LK is still in Beta, relax. And like others have said, the reason most of the posts have Druid, Pally, Warrior and DK changes is because they're all tanking classes and tanking is being changed drastically in LK.
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  2. #22

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    I have a priest and a warlock, and comparing ruin and divine spirit is laughable. Divine spirit is a buff that helps everyone, ruin is a passive that only helps the player. They switched them around to not only open up Ruin to every build but because they realized they pigeon-holed almost every warlock build into taking Ruin over Meta and Haunt. Do i think choosing between Spirit and Dispersion or Guardian Spirit is similar to Ruin? Not really. If you want to be a buff bot and that is all you are in a raid for, then pick up Spirit or start a petition to make it a trainable skill. A heavy disc priest and a heavy holy priest both bring a different flavor to the raid group, and if you think you will be left out of the raid b/c you don't have spirit then quit the guild, quit the game, pick a new class, or take up inscription and make a ton of Spirit Scrolls.

  3. #23

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dismas
    I have a priest and a warlock, and comparing ruin and divine spirit is laughable. Divine spirit is a buff that helps everyone, ruin is a passive that only helps the player. They switched them around to not only open up Ruin to every build but because they realized they pigeon-holed almost every warlock build into taking Ruin over Meta and Haunt. Do i think choosing between Spirit and Dispersion or Guardian Spirit is similar to Ruin? Not really. If you want to be a buff bot and that is all you are in a raid for, then pick up Spirit or start a petition to make it a trainable skill. A heavy disc priest and a heavy holy priest both bring a different flavor to the raid group, and if you think you will be left out of the raid b/c you don't have spirit then quit the guild, quit the game, pick a new class, or take up inscription and make a ton of Spirit Scrolls.
    pretty much

    ruin is directly comparable to guess what... the new shadow spell talent just like blue stated


    I could just as easily say "whaaaaaa how come silent resolve is 3/3 in tier 2 while afflictions anti dispel is 5/5 in tier 7"

  4. #24

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Although this topic is really stupid, its probably just a result of frustration. All the other classes have been getting constructive responses to feedback on their classes from the blues but for the most part the responses to priest feedback has been "its fine, sorry"

    When priests asked why inner fire was still using a charge system and only lasted 10 minutes the blue response was "The spell is dirt cheap because of the charges. If we removed them, we'd have to up the mana cost. A Warrior who keeps his shout up in fights is usually regarded as better than those who don't, similar to a Priest who keeps his Inner Fire up vs those who don't. "

    This is obviously retarded reasoning because A: Having to rebuff yourself every 10 min (or 20 charges) just so you can have the spell be cheaper makes absolutely no sense. When has a buff's mana cost ever been an issue since you do them BEFORE a fight? and B) Comparing it to a warrior shout is ridiculous since warrior shouts affect a whole group while inner fire is self buff only...yeah great reasoning.


    Then when priests started complaining that divine hymn was extremely disappointing as our level 80 skill since it is a PvP cc spell on a huge cool down, the blue response was that "it could be used as emergency CC in case of a bad pull" So...awesome. The big priest level 80 skill is a "sometimes it could be handy" spell. Same goes for Guardian Spirit...great spell no doubt, but its SO situational that as a 51 point talent its a huge let down. I'd like my 51 point talent to be something I actually use, not occasionally use in specific situations that might not even arise.


    So anyway, wall of text off. Complaining about priests because of this warlock change is stupid for sure, but priests are generally irritable now because the blues are pretty much telling them their class is fine and to deal with it while the other classes are being lavished with attention to player feedback.

  5. #25

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Yesterday was the first constructive lock day since beta started...most blue posts up until then have been removing our 51 pointers or just keep gimping them. So have a lil faith until proven otherwise.

  6. #26
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    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Regarding Divine Hymn - there is a post on the beta forum stating that it will be changed:

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=2&sid=2000#21
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  7. #27

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Apples and oranges.

    Your comparing a passive ability to an activated one, You cant very well make an activated ability a 5pt tier 1 talent. Well, maybe you could if you made it cause your PW:Fort increase you spirit by a % of its total... but thats beside the point.

    Discipline needs to stand on its own legs in PvE. Priests should have the option of being a discipline healer that has advantages and disadvantages (already mentioned they could just be really good single target healers and holy better AoE healers) or a holy priest. The current options are 1. Holy priest. 2. Nerfed holy priest so he can cast spirit.

  8. #28

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by thethain
    Apples and oranges.

    Your comparing a passive ability to an activated one, You cant very well make an activated ability a 5pt tier 1 talent. Well, maybe you could if you made it cause your PW:Fort increase you spirit by a % of its total... but thats beside the point.

    Discipline needs to stand on its own legs in PvE. Priests should have the option of being a discipline healer that has advantages and disadvantages (already mentioned they could just be really good single target healers and holy better AoE healers) or a holy priest. The current options are 1. Holy priest. 2. Nerfed holy priest so he can cast spirit.

    I can imagine the devs give themselves headaches with priests... its the only healing class that has 2 healing trees (essentially) it really doesnt make sense and like you said both trees should be viable in pve (as well as pvp) Something really needs to stand out in holy as a holy crap that healing is amazing (no pun intended) and disc still needs that damn i wish we had a disc priest in the raid.

  9. #29

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    -Mort- I agree priests are in a very odd position as healers.
    Shamans/Paladins/Druids - They are all hybrids Each tree can have whatever it needs in the tree, with only the slightest nod to synergy(druids have a little reason to go balance 10-15 pts now tho).

    Devs need to pick a niche for Holy Priest and Disc Priest and STICK TO IT.
    Personally I see it as this, Holy - Healing, Disc - Damage Prevention and buffs.
    As such what disc needs is a solid 51 pt talent that buffs people and has to be done in combat (and can't be replaced by another spec of another class).

    I could see something similar to DK's Anti-Magic Zone, except instead it would just be a zone that would protect everyone in it from X amount of damage until it was spent.

  10. #30

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by MortuariusBC
    you're still being tweaked.... but honestly i dont see why DS isnt just a base ability with the option of improving it in upper disc tree
    Obviously, because without having to spend any talent points, the priest already have Fortitude(one of the best buff in the game BTW, with almost 1000hp bonus at max lvl...), and Shadow Resistance, which are 2 major buffs.

    If they are to give more buffs to the priest, they're going to be all on the same level and will be overwritten by any of his other buff...

    -

    Geeze, wait until the patch 3.0 to be AT LEAST on PTR, then start whining that you aren't satisfied with your changes.

    AND PLEASE, STOP COMPARING 1 CLASS VS 1 OTHER, CAUSE IT WONT BE FAIR, TRY TO HAVE A GLOBAL VISION, AND SEE ALL CLASSES TOGETHER. THANKS.
    (If comparing classes 1v1 was fair, there would have a 1v1 bracket in arenas)
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  11. #31

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible
    Noone said give ds or imp ds to all. The point was still that DS + imp ds is not made available to all healing priests in the same manner since it was said "ruin was moved so locks didn't have to give up a 51 point talent". Atm this is NOT the same case for priests, or alot of other classes in the same way.

    And to the trolls in this topic; for heavens sake renew your material. Making it seem people are crying in topics with constructive comments really make yourself look stupid.
    Like I said, its not the same thing. Ruin moved to help balance the DPS output of all Warlock specs. Moving DS down the tree just makes the weakest tree weaker and the strongest tree (holy) stronger. If a Holy Priest wants to enhance his utility, he should have to give up some healing output.

  12. #32

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin
    Moving DS down the tree just makes the weakest tree weaker and the strongest tree (holy) stronger. If a Holy Priest wants to enhance his utility, he should have to give up some healing output.
    I agree, now. With the changes to Disc this expansion, DS is fine being talented and staying where it is.

  13. #33

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Telitzp
    Ruin and Devastation changes
    In an upcoming build we are changing Ruin to a 5-point talent. However, it will swap places with Devastation. Devastation will become a 1-point talent (5% spell crit). This will be a minimal change to the Destruction Warlock, while opening up Ruin to other builds without having them sacrifice their 51-point talents.

    Well, there goes most of our Divine Spirit and Guardian Spirit talk down the drain. Seriously, why do we keep getting slapped in the face?

    I'm so fed up with the bullshit that the priest class is getting. It's close to either: Finding a new game, or just rolling a Death Knight. It is absolutely insane that ALL of our needs and wants are going out the drain.

    I can see it now. The only thing about Priest's in the last four weeks is this:

    Shadow Power changes
    Still some work to do. We're going to be changing Shadow Power to 100% bonus crit damage to be consistent with other classes, also doing some other tweaks. We have a bit more work to do with all classes DPS numbers.

    Okay, so this is what they are telling us: We are increasing your damage bit, however, with that increase we are going to increase everyone else's damage to nullify the buff we just gave you. Thanks and have a nice day.

    Blizzard will soon realize that 50% of the priest population is either quitting the game or rolling a different class and will be forced to buff us the right way.

    Whatever, enough of the rant. Enjoy it some more in the butt priests!
    Boy, this is the funniest post you've posted yet...

    You're trying to make a comparison between Ruin & DS... I wonder if you thought that through before your little rant. Lets take a look at the talents in question...

    DS - Requires 20 points in disc, 1 rank, gives the ability to buff the entire group/raid with 80 spirit
    Ruin - Requires 15 points in destruction, 5 ranks, gives the warlock the ability to increase their critical damage hits by 100%

    Now let me quote a blue post you quoted "We're going to be changing Shadow Power to 100% bonus crit damage to be consistent with other classes."

    Do you think when analysing the caster dps as a whole it was impossible for Warlocks to be able to get the standard 100% extra crit damage if they wanted to spec demonology or affliction? If the change wasn't made it would have resulted in Warlocks being forced into the destruction tree exclusively. 100% crit damage is a talent that every caster DPS class will have access to without losing their respective 51 point talents, why should warlocks be different? I suppose you feel that the talent trees should dictate the exact spec everyone should be forced to take in order to raid competitively? Being presented a choice in which tree you'd like to spec into and being able to spec variations of one tree are a bad thing? You come accross as very short sighted and I urge you to think long and hard before posting another useless rant like this one.

    As you can see the DS placement in the disc tree isn't even comparable to this warlock change. Imp DS isn't a standard ability that all dps casters get access to. Whether DS should be a trainable spell or earlier in the disc treet has nothing to do with this warlock change, stop comparing apples with oranges.

    Here's to you quitting WoW.

  14. #34

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by thethain
    Devs need to pick a niche for Holy Priest and Disc Priest and STICK TO IT.
    From what i've read in blue posts and my analysis of the trees is that the Disc tree is supposed to be the higest HPS single target heal tree and Holy is supposed to be the best AoE/multi task healing tree.

    I personally like that direction... it allows priest healers to specialise in MT healing or raid/jack of all trades healing.

    The only criticism I have of Disc at this stage is it's unsure what negative impact damage prevention shields will have on threat and the inability to accurately measure what HPS effect your shields/damage prevention amount to.

  15. #35

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    From what i've read in blue posts and my analysis of the trees is that the Disc tree is supposed to be the higest The only criticism I have of Disc at this stage is it's unsure what negative impact damage prevention shields will have on threat and the inability to accurately measure what HPS effect your shields/damage prevention amount to.
    With all the changes to tanking, the sheilds up on the tank might not be so bad. this is primarily due to the fact that Strength has become a HUGE tanking stat and it seems like most of the threat generated will be from damage. the more damage they do the more rage a warrior or bear will get...so hopefully it will work out.
    It's Just a Ride.

  16. #36

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSpackler
    With all the changes to tanking, the sheilds up on the tank might not be so bad. this is primarily due to the fact that Strength has become a HUGE tanking stat and it seems like most of the threat generated will be from damage. the more damage they do the more rage a warrior or bear will get...so hopefully it will work out.
    From the premliminary information comming out of Beta it seems the disc shields are having a minimal impact on rage generation, however there are blue posts saying they are still monitoring the mechanic and they will introduce a glyph or a change that will give rage/mana linked to damage absorbed if it is evident it's a problem. I'm not overally worried but it's something someone could make constructive comments about instead of some of the garbage posted atm.

  17. #37

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Telitzp
    I'm so fed up with the bullshit that the priest class is getting. It's close to either: Finding a new game, or just rolling a (something else). It is absolutely insane that ALL of our needs and wants are going out the drain.

    ...

    Blizzard will soon realize that 50% of the priest population is either quitting the game or rolling a different class and will be forced to buff us the right way.

    Whatever, enough of the rant. Enjoy it some more in the butt priests!
    Not to pick on the OP too much, but ...

    Didn't we go through this before BC was released? Did we lose 50% of the priest population back then? Aren't priests still the best overall* healers in the game?

    * - "Overall" in this context means "in all situations other than pillar-humping while healing in 2s and 3s ... where they still come in 2nd".

  18. #38

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    Okay, you still think I'm wrong?

    1. They tried to take Improved Inner Fire away from Shadow Priests. Shadow Priests are now forced to take 1 point of something crappy for PvE at least.

    2. They just gave Blessing of Kings a MAJOR buff and put it at the top of the tier, AND gave it Improved Functions.

    So again I ask you, who in their right mind doesn't feel like they've been fked sideways?

  19. #39

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    OMFG
    All I have to say is this; Read the new Rapture.


    NERFED INTO THE FKING GROUND

    That's it, I've decided I'm done with Priest until changes are fixed.

    Thank you, Blizz, Death Knight here I come!

  20. #40

    Re: Another slap to Priests (and probably other classes)

    And again, if you think I am making crap up, go read the Priest Beta Forums.

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