obsolete talents for ret pvp

[Mysmere]

crusader and imp 2h in ret take 6 points total for 12% damage (may be more than this due to additive v multiplicitive). its a talent intensive build, so why would anyone take righteous vengeance for 5 points when 5 points way earlier in the tree will net 10% total damage increase (even buffs judge damage by 3% due to 30% mw).

considering i also want to ditch 18 points into prot for 30 second stun, why would i ever get some of the high end ret talents, mostly fanaticism and righteous vengeance. i exclude swift ret for its mainly pve focus.

[Montoya]

Because they still rock?!

Especially with the Nerf to Seals and their judgements, the additional 25% damage when criting would be very nice.

[Mysmere]

with my gear the 10% would be about 100 a swing and 3% on the judge would be around 43 dmg

versus the 25% extra crit (notice this is 25% of the base not 25% of final product) on a crit on a stunned target itd do about 375 extra. this is a lot of reqs and a lot of talentpoints for an extra 299 dmg on a crit on a stunned target. so in a regular fight thisd be 400 dmg, repent and stun, excluding trinkets. instead of TEN PERCENT damage all the time. white damage, soco procs, crus strike, whirlwind hits.

i just dont see the point of taking them in such a high cost tree.

did math wrong a bit.. didn't add 75 to the 300. whoops

[Montoya]

12% Static damage vs +45% potential damage on Judgements / Divine Storm?

[Mysmere]

i'm not quite sure where you got 45, its 25 of base on a crit. implying 12.5% extra damage on a crit. thats all

because its 25% extra on the 100% damage bonus of a crit. not on the base.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

assume base crit is already 34%

[Rawberry]

Mysmere,

The latest Art of War offers another +20% increase. Thus 20% + 25% (RV) = 45%?

[Mysmere]

the reason the new art of war is good is because of its utility. not its damage. also it's 2 points. like i said, point starved. so it's still 25% loss. making it 12.5% of base. 10% from the other talents = 2.5% gained on a crit.

so .025xcrit% is the dps gained on divine. it's a little less bleak for judges.

now tell me how thats better than moving the points lower in the tree.
something needs to be changed.

[Rawberry]

I don't follow Mysmere.

[Moar Pew Pew]

I don't follow Mysmere.

/Agreed. But I'm interested lol.

[Lilliana]

i think he is blowing smoke

[Mysmere]

divine ret gives +25% crit bonus. this means base 100 +100(regular crit bonus)+25(from ret) =225% crit. if say, 12.5% was added to base damage instead, you'd have the equivalent becase itd be. 112.5%*100% or 225% total. so the 5 points moved lower that give base damage would give 110% total damage *2 on a crit for 220%. this is a 5% gain from using divine ret instead of the earlier points but only a 2.5% change on base. considering this requires a crit as well............ and that the 10% is for everything

oh also, crusade gives the 6% to all judges as well. forgot about that

[Mysmere]

does no one else see the problem with these talents?

[ionpath]

does no one else see the problem with these talents?

The only problem I see is what you had with your math teacher :

[Moar Pew Pew]

Personally, I hate Seal of Command. Chance on hit is generally just boring as hell. I'd rather see a Hand ability that gave something like Reckoning for a short period of time. Hell, anything that increases our damage, which Seal of Command doesn't, and is fun to use.

I think it's high time that Blizz stopped trying to make us one of the easier classes to play and realised they're boring the hell out of us.

[NerDy]

Personally, I hate Seal of Command. Chance on hit is generally just boring ass hell. I'd rather see a Hand ability that gave something like Reckoning for a short period of time. Hell, anything that increases our damage, which Seal of Command doesn't, and is fun to use.

well... all seals have been nerfed exept SoComm.
+ an other 15% damage when crit on a stunned target make it even more powerfull

[Lilliana]

Seal of Command (Tier 3) damage reduced. (Check talent list for details)

[Moar Pew Pew]

Seal of Command (Tier 3) damage reduced. (Check talent list for details)

You beat me to it lol.

[Lilliana]

:0 i just dont like when ppl dont read all the notes

[Moar Pew Pew]

Anyway, damage aside for now, we really need more interesting abilities and damage dealing mechanics. Chance on hit to do a billion damage is more interesting when making a sandwich than watching the numbers fly.

Am I exaggerating? Greatly, but we should at least have something more interesting than Seal of Command.

[Lilliana]

they could atleat increase the base% to hit so it isnt completely SoCasino