Thread: Paladin Changes

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  1. #1

    Paladin Changes

    Okay I normally don't start on a rampage on anything beta cause I know that the things will change... However the changes to Holy and Prot are ridiculous.

    Divine Plea? 10 seconds of not main tank healing for a mana regen is almost suicide for a 5man or a 10man not alone 25mans where your needed on a main tank to help heal. That's not even usuable in its current form and I prolly won't even put it on my toolbar. the only one that would even have a good/decent chance to use this ability is a Ret Pally that needs mana after going through all their mana regen mechanics and if that's the case than I don't see how it fits blizz's idea of "mana management" that they are working so hard to get across.

    Kings... Okay I hate to say it but who the hell is going to even spec this? Why would a Holy Pally want it when they could get 5% crit from Conviction, Prot and Ret Pallies will get str so it's a 5 point wasted talent... This NEEDS to be baseline if your going to do anything with it.

    All I have to say is Ret yes you did get a good deal of changes and whatnot, and is the hype of the Expac but c'mon wheres the love for maybe two of the other talent trees? I mean Beacon is NOT OP, i mean look at Mark of Divinity its generaly no different and we have NO AoE heal? We are the only class without a single vibe of AoE heal?

    Now in the Prot tree Redoubt? WHY? The only buff I see is the added block to Ranged attacks. I don't get the point in moving it down other than another PvP nerft to Holy Prot Healadins.

    Any other concerns on the other two talent trees and thier needs?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Fablewynd's Avatar
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    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Taintedlimbs
    Now in the Prot tree Redoubt? WHY? The only buff I see is the added block to Ranged attacks. I don't get the point in moving it down other than another PvP nerft to Holy Prot Healadins.
    Redoubt now has Shield Specialisation folded into it, the main and more or less only reason for getting Redoubt in the first place. This is a great buff.

    C
    x

  3. #3

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Taintedlimbs
    Okay I normally don't start on a rampage on anything beta cause I know that the things will change... However the changes to Holy and Prot are ridiculous.

    Divine Plea? 10 seconds of not main tank healing for a mana regen is almost suicide for a 5man or a 10man not alone 25mans where your needed on a main tank to help heal. That's not even usuable in its current form and I prolly won't even put it on my toolbar. the only one that would even have a good/decent chance to use this ability is a Ret Pally that needs mana after going through all their mana regen mechanics and if that's the case than I don't see how it fits blizz's idea of "mana management" that they are working so hard to get across.

    Kings... Okay I hate to say it but who the hell is going to even spec this? Why would a Holy Pally want it when they could get 5% crit from Conviction, Prot and Ret Pallies will get str so it's a 5 point wasted talent... This NEEDS to be baseline if your going to do anything with it.

    All I have to say is Ret yes you did get a good deal of changes and whatnot, and is the hype of the Expac but c'mon wheres the love for maybe two of the other talent trees? I mean Beacon is NOT OP, i mean look at Mark of Divinity its generaly no different and we have NO AoE heal? We are the only class without a single vibe of AoE heal?

    Now in the Prot tree Redoubt? WHY? The only buff I see is the added block to Ranged attacks. I don't get the point in moving it down other than another PvP nerft to Holy Prot Healadins.

    Any other concerns on the other two talent trees and thier needs?
    Troll???
    WTB Spell/Grammer check?

  4. #4

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelic
    Redoubt now has Shield Specialisation folded into it, the main and more or less only reason for getting Redoubt in the first place. This is a great buff.

    C
    x
    Okay that makes sense, Yea it's less talent points to spend in prot but where exactly you going to put the extra talent points?

  5. #5

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Angrrrr.

    The only thing I'm wondering about is the reduced damage from Judgment spells. That's it. Kings was too strong a spell at its current state to be 10%; all it takes is five talents and that'll bring it up to 8% at top tier. Ya know top tier? Anyone with a few points could invest in it. I'm looking forward to giving it a try as soon as my updater is finished.

    As for Divine Plea, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. We have a powerful Blessing of Wisdom that gives us a mana regen edge over Mages and Priests. Use it during downtime. The chances of a Paladin, the game's most efficient mana battery running out of mana mid fight are slim to none. These mobs hit like trucks now that crushing blows is gone, thus there's the need for greater healing. Tank gear isn't going to be such a big requirement anymore and reaching uncrushable doesn't matter as much. Healers are going to have to step up their game. Use it during downtime.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Fablewynd's Avatar
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    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Taintedlimbs
    Okay that makes sense, Yea it's less talent points to spend in prot but where exactly you going to put the extra talent points?
    If you can't find places to put those extra points, then I worry for you.

    C
    x

  7. #7

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelic
    If you can't find places to put those extra points, then I worry for you.

    C
    x
    I have built 5 different Prot builds, Yes I've found other spots.... But kings? I NEVER pick it up...

    4 Different Holy Builds NEVER pick up Kings,

    4 Different Ret Builds Never pick up Kings...

    WASTED talent.

  8. #8

    Re: Paladin Changes

    What you don't seem to catch is that you get kings by investing 1 talent point, the extra 4 in improved kings is not really needed, because from 1 point kings you can get greater blessing of kings which is 10% (nerfed from 15%, but still).
    So now you get normal greater blessing of kings from 1 talent point invested in a tier1 talent...
    Correlation does not imply causation.

  9. #9

    Re: Paladin Changes

    I suspect that'll be hotfixed.

    Either that or if you spend the 5 points, you will get a 18% buff to all stats. That's nothing to scoff at.
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
    The Power of Avoidance! - DK Tank Required Reading
    DK AP Coefficients
    DK Threat Values

    Aurich von Deathstrike

  10. #10

    Re: Paladin Changes

    That would make no sense Montoya.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  11. #11

    Re: Paladin Changes

    All I can say is the ret changes are spooge-tastic.

  12. #12

    Re: Paladin Changes

    i dont think he can read the first point in kings gives 2% and the other 4 give 2% each to make it 10% again

  13. #13

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilliana
    i dont think he can read the first point in kings gives 2% and the other 4 give 2% each to make it 10% again
    The first point doesn't say an additional 2%. However the accompanying 4 points for Improved do.

    Greater Blessing of Kings would overwrite Blessing of Kings. So 2% becomes 10%. Greater Blessing of Kings then gets +8% from Improved Blessing of Kings talent points.

    Thus making it a 18% increase.

    Make sense now?
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
    The Power of Avoidance! - DK Tank Required Reading
    DK AP Coefficients
    DK Threat Values

    Aurich von Deathstrike

  14. #14

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Not to point out the obvious, but with 1 point in BoK, Greater BoK will only give you a 2% stat boost for 30 min. 5/5 would give you the normal 10% for both BoK and Greater BoK.

  15. #15

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Unfortunately, though I do like some of the changes, this still doesn't solve the real Ret PvP problem; kiting. Also, Judgements of teh Wise is never going to go live like this. I already have a Shockadin spec with it that would never oom. Ever.

  16. #16

    Re: Paladin Changes

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    Pretty much imba in the "Resto Druids eat your heart out" way. Mana? What the fuck is mana? I just hit any damn button I want!

  17. #17

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Montoya
    The first point doesn't say an additional 2%. However the accompanying 4 points for Improved do.

    Greater Blessing of Kings would overwrite Blessing of Kings. So 2% becomes 10%. Greater Blessing of Kings then gets +8% from Improved Blessing of Kings talent points.

    Thus making it a 18% increase.

    Make sense now?
    you're dumb.

  18. #18

    Re: Paladin Changes

    Now, correct me if I'm wrong but Divine Plea is just a skill that is available to all 3 specs. If not, disregard this entire post. If it is available to all Pally specs, then just because it's in the Holy division doesn't mean it's not useful for everybody else. Consecration is Holy but I spam it like crazy as a Tank. And, being able to pop an instant restore over time of 25% mana every minute is pretty good in my eyes, as long as it doesn't affect the healing done to me while I'm tanking.

    On another note, someone pointed out an interesting notion. Could you just pick up 1/1 Blessing of Kings (with the +2% to stats) and still use the Greater Blessing of Kings (with the +10% to stats) without putting 4 points into Imp BoK? There's still only one spell listed for Greater BoK on the MMO page, so it's an interesting thought. However, the problem becomes being forced to put those 4 points in the top of the tree to advance further. But, I'd rather pick up Stoicism (or some other talent) than waste points on a useless increase to the normal BoK.

  19. #19

    Re: Paladin Changes

    So... Anyone in this thread that actually has a beta key? All I'm seeing is theorycrafting and opinions. I'd like for someone that can actually test these things tell us if they're still going oom and what kind of a rotation they're doing and how oom they're actually getting.

  20. #20

    Re: Paladin Changes

    This is definitely an interim build so expect talents to shift around again and get added.

    The 1 hand spec confuses me. whats listed in the notes and what is in the tree are completely different.

    notes: One-Handed Weapon Specialization (Tier 6) now increases damage you deal with one handed weapons by 2/4/6/8/10%.

    *edit, got changed while i was posting*

    I did like that the old one was a flat increase across the board however i suppose the new one has a knock on effect to hotr
    >:7

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