Thread: Nerf bat hurts

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  1. #21
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    No, but every EVERY class in the respective class forum is crying "We are nerfed, we are worthless, we are broke, everyone will reroll"

    Every single class!!!

    So I see this as balancing issues, not nerfs. Mana regen will change because it is now so powerful, warlocks need no lifetap. Casters don't need pots. I bet everyone will cry "NERF" then as well. :

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14469.0

    Read this and you know what I mean.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  2. #22

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    You don't understand the point of a beta do you?

    The point is we're supposed to QQ and whine about nerfs and changes, so the devs actually know how we feel about them and can adjust accordingly.

    Since I'm not in beta, this is the next best place to do it.

    Either way, my first post in this topic stands, I don't like the entire general direction they're taking Wotlk in, even if they DO reverse all the warlock nerfs. You can say its still beta all you want, but its quite clear what direction they're going.

    It's a damn shame too, I quite love the lore concerning Northrend, Arthas and all that.

  3. #23
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Um...the point of beta might be to give constructive criticism. QQ is a baby crying that the lolly is being taken away. Crying "Nerf" is not constructive feeback. Made up numbers are made up numbers, here is my made up number: 90% of the posts here deal with the "No..they have taken my lolly away" variant. For good measure sprinkled with "Blizzard doesn't care for xxx class" "Blizzard has no idea how to balance (insert random choice of pvp/pvp/classes/talent trees /zones / world peace / the weather / cookies)

    And that you add you are not in the beta..um thanks for your honesty, but doesn't that make it second or third hand information you base your goodbye on? Maybe a mistake?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  4. #24

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by det
    Um...the point of beta might be to give constructive criticism. QQ is a baby crying that the lolly is being taken away. Crying "Nerf" is not constructive feeback. Made up numbers are made up numbers, here is my made up number: 90% of the posts here deal with the "No..they have taken my lolly away" variant. For good measure sprinkled with "Blizzard doesn't care for xxx class" "Blizzard has no idea how to balance (insert random choice of pvp/pvp/classes/talent trees /zones / world peace / the weather / cookies)

    And that you add you are not in the beta..um thanks for your honesty, but doesn't that make it second or third hand information you base your goodbye on? Maybe a mistake?
    Here I was thinking blue posts came straight from the source and thus could be considdered firsthand information. You sure proved me wrong.

    Oh, you should know that if I would have access to beta forums, my criticism would be a LOT more constructive, becouse I know for a fact that devs actually read those forums and actually listen to the posts made there. Here, I prefer QQ'ing along with the rest of the locks that feel the same as I do.

  5. #25

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    If you had access to the beta you would know that dps and dps scaling for all classes is wildly erratic at the moment, with some builts being subpar and many more completely out of scale (double or more the intented damage). The same with mana regen (everyone just seems to have too much except for retridins I think). Multiple builts like this are needed so we can help the devs check the numbers.

  6. #26

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by det
    No, but every EVERY class in the respective class forum is crying "We are nerfed, we are worthless, we are broke, everyone will reroll"

    Every single class!!!
    i think mages a pretty happy right now
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  7. #27
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyrion
    Here I was thinking blue posts came straight from the source and thus could be considdered firsthand information. You sure proved me wrong.
    Blue post: (excerpt - from mmo frontpage, scroll a bit down)

    Class Balancing - Methodology
    We have spreadsheets -- huge ones. We have values for characters in greens and raid buffed with epic gear. We have estimates of mob damage and health, character downtime, the benefits from enchants, gems and glyphs. We have conversion rates of mana to runic power to energy to rage. We look at damage per second, efficiency, button presses per second, typical rotations, movement vs. standing still, mobs vs. players and every other variable we can think of (and there are a LOT of them).

    In the end we come up with an estimate for what an attack should do. We come up with a budget for talents and spells just like we have a budget for items at a given level. Sometimes those estimates are wrong because we forgot to take something into account, or because there's a bug in a talent or spell somewhere that messes up the calculation.

    And then we do lots of testing, and to get a reality check on our tests, we compare them to the numbers people are reporting from the beta. Repeat as necessary. I've said this in a few posts: that our numbers can sometimes be wrong (as is the case almost any time you deal with numbers), but the methods we use to arrive at them are absolutely not sloppy. (Source)

    Very high / low DPS for classes and balancing
    There are so many bugs in the data we're seeing right now, that they're good for detecting bugs, but not great yet for figuring out where everyone stands. Give it a couple of weeks and things will start to settle down. Currently we're getting situations where some classes are doing 3 to nearly 4 times the dps of others. Buffing every spec now to make sure they all hit 4000 dps would produce a very crazy game. Buffing anyone's dps until we've had a chance to analyze where each player's dps will derive from is premature.

    It's an exciting time for us, because we finally get to see some level 80 characters in action. Getting so much data will finally let us get everyone adjusted. But we're going to need a decent sample size of data sets that we trust first. (Source)


    Do you have a link where a blues says "Please QQ more" or did I missunderstood your quote?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  8. #28

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    You misunderstood.

  9. #29

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    I think everyone misunderstood the wording on fel armor and shadow embrace, go see the skill description.

  10. #30
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyrion
    You misunderstood.
    I admit I did that on purpose
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  11. #31

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Looks to me like ranks 3-5 of SE are still bugged and not displaying any value other than zero. That said, it's still a nerf, just not quite as bad as everyone thinks.

    Some of these changes, I just fail to see as necessary. Particularly the DP/Fel Armor/CoEX ones. In regards to DP/Fel Armor, if one was making the other obsolete...why nerf both of them hard? And unless there's something I'm missing, one of the most melee vulnerable classes, even now with the teleport, just got a nerf against...melee. o.O

    Death's Embrace now seems extremely lackluster for something that only becomes active below 20% of your target's health, but it might be just right. I've yet to see roughly what a Naxx-10 or Naxx-25 geared Lock comes up with for crit %. If it's high as is, who knows, the old 15% could have been over the top (but I doubt it).

    Ultimately, it sucks that we took a lot of nerfs, but honestly, the only ones imo who have a right to complain are the PvPers. Everyone else took it equally hard in the ass with the nerf fornication rod. Also, if you suddenly reroll your class or quit the game because of your class, along with MANY classes, getting nerfed in one beta patch after getting tons of awesome shit, go die in a fire, seems like FotM rollers anyway.

    For now, I'll keep watching and seeing how things progress. Nothing is live yet, it's not going live tomorrow, and we don't know what's ahead other than what we've been told. Doing anything other than giving feedback and waiting for the next patch, and the patch after, and it going live, is all we can do. Blizz isn't going to intentionally destroy the class THEY made, they aren't out to fuck you over and make you miserable, they aren't out to make swimming pools out of money and torture you by going ''nah, lets just ignore wow and try to make it go down the tube.'' Quit the bitching and nonsense claims that you're gonna quit when A) Nobody on MMO-Champ has anything to do with Blizzard, B) Nobody cares, even if you were to tell that to Blizz and C) If you were gonna quit, you would have done it one of the last 40 times you saw something you didn't like and made the same claim.

  12. #32

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    here are my thought for anyone who cares or doesnt care :P

    1) They are still balancing so i wont get too mad yet

    2) W .... T .... F.... are you thinking blizzard with shadow embrace. If in fact it is only 2 points get rid of the stupid reduction on HoTs effect and boost the damage. For one the "MS" effect needs to be stacked using spells that are sometimes difficult to cast in arena and second even with 2 stacks it SUCKS.

  13. #33

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Seems like they want to see us life taping.

  14. #34

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by ascote
    Seems like they want to see us life taping.
    Life Tapping is what makes a warlock a warlock, in Blizzard's eyes. With the previous spirit regen and 200% dark pact, I imagine there was little tapping going on.

  15. #35

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticSong
    C) If you were gonna quit, you would have done it one of the last 40 times you saw something you didn't like and made the same claim.
    The difference is this time around there's a very promising game about to be released wich could be a worthy successor to WoW, AND lots of people I know will be quitting wow for it as well.

    If WAR turns out to be rubbish, wich I highly doubt, I'll probably come back to WoW, yes, but chances that I'll be playing my warlock then are incredibly slim.

  16. #36

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Phyrion
    The difference is this time around there's a very promising game about to be released wich could be a worthy successor to WoW, AND lots of people I know will be quitting wow for it as well.

    If WAR turns out to be rubbish, wich I highly doubt, I'll probably come back to WoW, yes, but chances that I'll be playing my warlock then are incredibly slim.

    Have fun i beta tested warhammer.... its a lot of fluff and ohs and ahs then you get to the buggy crappy end game of pvp boredom

    As much as a hate to admit it, blizzard is the best there is at updating their MMO, keeping the MAJORITY (cant please everyone) happy, and bringing in new customers

    I mean hell... ever see how many ppl STILL played diablo1 years after diablo2 was released

    Blizzard is $$ and as much as i get pissed sometimes at changes the grass is deader on the other side of the fence

  17. #37

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    spriests suck again

  18. #38

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by melterofaces
    spriests suck again
    we honestly don't give a crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dismas
    Life Tapping is what makes a warlock a warlock, in Blizzard's eyes. With the previous spirit regen and 200% dark pact, I imagine there was little tapping going on.
    I'd rather not Life Tap tbh. I only want to use it in emergencies.
    It lowers dps way too much to be an effective way to regenerate mana.

  19. #39

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorg
    we honestly don't give a crap

    I'd rather not Life Tap tbh. I only want to use it in emergencies.
    It lowers dps way too much to be an effective way to regenerate mana.

    damn im still 99 posts behind you.. i have a lot of work to do

  20. #40

    Re: Nerf bat hurts

    This post never happened <.<
    9/11/08 - Priests will never forgive, and never forget.

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