Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Disc really the best Single Target?

    I don't understand if they wanted to make Disc the best Single target tank healing spec for priest why would they make Empowered Healing so good now and so deep into the Holy Tree?

    40% to your GH and 20% to your Flash if you pile up all the Disc talents there is no way they equal the amount of healing that can be done with a Holy speced priest and his monstrous Greater Heals.

    At least they have Penance I guess.

  2. #2

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Discipline has, in terms of healing power only three things going for it. Shields, Grace and Focused Power. So +6% healing from Grace, Strong shields and +4% spellpower from FP. If you look at the holy tree you see that Spiritual Healing alone (+10% to your healing spells) is way more usefull in terms of healing throughput. Now the rest of the talents in the Holy tree also boost healing/efficiency a LOT. Spiritual Guidance, Empowered Healing together with talents like Test of Faith and Serendipity for mana. Lightwell is now worth casting, so a second usefull heal, CoH is still good assuming the bugs get fixed.

    What discipline brings is Spirit Buff, Grace and Penance. Grace however is just to make up for the poor healing throughput (Since no healing spells actually get buffed in the disc tree), and no where near the holy tree buffs. Penance is a nice and effective heal, but on a 10-8 second cooldown. Spirit buff has definetely lost it's shine (Improved Divine Spirit isn't even worth taking anymore, in a raiding environment).

    So if you'd ask me, who would I pick if I base it purely on the ability to keep a tank up? Well Holy seems a lot stronger at doing this, coupled with the ability to AoE Heal effectively and in the off-chance that the tank does drop to low and gets pummeled you have Guardian Spirit together with a talent that increases your healing and chance to crit to bring the tank back up too full. Disc, I don't see a discipline being an "effective" Main Tank healer, apart from the "I put my shield up to buy the others more time to heal the tank".

    On top of that a discipline priest is STILL the only healer that actually has a negative effect on the tank he is healing, unless a death knight. Whether or not the effect is big or not, it's still negative and imo destroys the synergy between tank and healer. Because let's face it... if you can pick why go for the healer that heals in a way that has a negative impact on your rage generation/mana regen, if all the other healers are just as good in keeping you up? I'd say a druid as it stands now is twice the healer a discipline priest will ever be (Very strong HoTs, combined with a stronger and more efficient fast heal and a stronger and more efficient bigger heal and an ability to make your next cast instant = huge lifesaver).

  3. #3

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    yes, shields decrease warrior/druid TPS (and paladin TPS but to a MUCH lesser degree)

    but they increase the tank's TTL

    MTing is all about TTL

  4. #4

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    yes, shields decrease warrior/druid TPS (and paladin TPS but to a MUCH lesser degree)

    but they increase the tank's TTL

    MTing is all about TTL
    TTL?

  5. #5

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Time to Live

    (aka the reason tanks stack stam)

  6. #6

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    Time to Live

    (aka the reason tanks stack stam)
    Gratz making an acronym nobody know.

    You are just a FMM
    I am indestructible.

    Epic Noob's Vehicle

  7. #7

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildhorn
    Gratz making an acronym nobody know.

    You are just a FMM
    Time-To-Live or TTL is a commonly used term in computer networks e.g. the max hops an IP packages is allowed to do.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_live

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,376

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    yes - because that makes perfect sense for a computergame and tanking...

    Get back on topic allready.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  9. #9

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    point being that on a hard boss fight rage/mana isn't the real issue. It's keeping the tank up that's likely to be the issue. And PW:S is great for that since it puts the tank at over 100% health

  10. #10

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    point being that on a hard boss fight rage/mana isn't the real issue. It's keeping the tank up that's likely to be the issue. And PW:S is great for that since it puts the tank at over 100% health
    PW:S Is also something every priest has. Not just limited to discipline, which pretty much get a 15%-20% stronger shield. I don't see how that and Divine Aegis really makes up for the fact that most of your heals, most likely even renew, are a LOT lower than holy priests/druid hots and direct heals. As I said it buys more time for other healers, maybe even yourself, to heal up the tank. I however won't call that an excellent single target healer.

    Also, our 31 point talent and our 41 point talent have zero use on a tank (since pain supression lowers threat, you don't really want to lower the poor tanks threat even MORE than you are already doing ).

  11. #11

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Disc also has a lot of talents to help with mana and the best mana effiency talent in holy is in reach of a 51/20/0 build.

  12. #12

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Honestly, I wouldn't be too sad to see Power Infusion go for a talent like Nature's Swiftness (Call it like "Speed of Light" or something ;D) I've just been using PI less and less and it's getting to be something I rarely use now T_T.

  13. #13

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenetus
    Disc also has a lot of talents to help with mana and the best mana effiency talent in holy is in reach of a 51/20/0 build.
    That it has yes. I have no clue how the new rupture works now, but the old rupture in combination with Divine Aegis looks/looked like a really mana efficient way, and fun way, to heal. Getting 2,5% mana back from the amount healed, and on crits a 30% shield that gives back 25% of the absorbed amount as mana. Should work like a charm.

  14. #14

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    on a long hard hitting boss fight Disc should really shine.

  15. #15

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    [...] stacking heavy crit (25%+) means you [...]
    ... do not have any spell power left, and both mana regen through shields, and effective HPS goes down?

  16. #16

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    and your crits will add 25% armor to the tank which is a big EH boast (that TTL thing again)

  17. #17

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Obviously the hps of the disc priest is pretty inferior to the one of the holy priest, its strenght is damage mitigation, not hps.

    However, I still see some flaws in the design of the tree that prevent disc priests from being "the best single target healer". Most of them have already been said, but there is one I have not read yet: overhealing for a disc priest is a no-no, as only effective heals give mana back through rapture. However, in a raid environment, the tank must be topped as much as possible and other healers, especially holy priests are gonna be overhealing a lot because of talents like serendipity. That makes the mana return through grace diminish and at the same time hurts the chance of keeping up grace, cause you'll have to stopcast heals that are gonna result in overhealing.

    However, if serendipity were a talent in the disc tree...

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,376

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Rapture used to be how much you healed, and not just effective heals - so basicly it was far better for disc before in that direction.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  19. #19

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Me personally, I was ready to cry about my hybrid build... I saw those initial changes and thought "there goes the Disc tree". But after I saw the upcoming changes, I can smile again! ;D

    I'm going 45/26/0 build to get Spiritual Guidance and Spirit of Redemption. That, combined with some of the Disc talents, will make one high-powered MT healer.

    Bubbles FTW!

  20. #20

    Re: Disc really the best Single Target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pristi
    Discipline has, in terms of healing power only three things going for it. Shields, Grace and Focused Power. So +6% healing from Grace, Strong shields and +4% spellpower from FP. If you look at the holy tree you see that Spiritual Healing alone (+10% to your healing spells) is way more usefull in terms of healing throughput. Now the rest of the talents in the Holy tree also boost healing/efficiency a LOT. Spiritual Guidance, Empowered Healing together with talents like Test of Faith and Serendipity for mana. Lightwell is now worth casting, so a second usefull heal, CoH is still good assuming the bugs get fixed.

    What discipline brings is Spirit Buff, Grace and Penance. Grace however is just to make up for the poor healing throughput (Since no healing spells actually get buffed in the disc tree), and no where near the holy tree buffs. Penance is a nice and effective heal, but on a 10-8 second cooldown. Spirit buff has definetely lost it's shine (Improved Divine Spirit isn't even worth taking anymore, in a raiding environment).

    So if you'd ask me, who would I pick if I base it purely on the ability to keep a tank up? Well Holy seems a lot stronger at doing this, coupled with the ability to AoE Heal effectively and in the off-chance that the tank does drop to low and gets pummeled you have Guardian Spirit together with a talent that increases your healing and chance to crit to bring the tank back up too full. Disc, I don't see a discipline being an "effective" Main Tank healer, apart from the "I put my shield up to buy the others more time to heal the tank".

    On top of that a discipline priest is STILL the only healer that actually has a negative effect on the tank he is healing, unless a death knight. Whether or not the effect is big or not, it's still negative and imo destroys the synergy between tank and healer. Because let's face it... if you can pick why go for the healer that heals in a way that has a negative impact on your rage generation/mana regen, if all the other healers are just as good in keeping you up? I'd say a druid as it stands now is twice the healer a discipline priest will ever be (Very strong HoTs, combined with a stronger and more efficient fast heal and a stronger and more efficient bigger heal and an ability to make your next cast instant = huge lifesaver).
    You make some good points....

    The damage prevention mechanic could have a negative impact on rage generation and therefore threat and blizzard have stated they are looking at that closely. I think we should keep in mind that tanks are going to be able to white hit a lot harder and they do receive a fair portion of their rage via white hits. If the shields turn out to have a negligble effect on rage generation (ie. you can't notice the difference between a disc MT healer or a holy pally MT healer) then I don't think we need to worry all that much. From the early reports of people in beta the tanks being healed by disc priests are reporting they don't notice a difference.

    My other concern is it's going to be hard to measure how much HPS disc shields are going to be worth. I'm still confused whether the divine aegis proc works on the heals strength (ie. inclusive of overhealing) or only what health is restored by the healed (exclusive of overhealing).

    I'd like to see some theorycrafting numbers on Disc HPS throughput vs Holy HPS throughput as well as some mana effeciency models because on the surface Serendipity seems like it would allow you to spam heal a tank a lot more effeciently than rapture would. I could be wrong but it appears to me that rapture will have diminished returns from overhealing whereas serendipity will reward you for it. And lets face it, healing a tank regardless of health is a much safer way than trying to time or wait for incomming damage.

    Having said all that, i'd still be keen to try out the disc tree if I decide to PvE heal for a bit...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •