Disc really the best Single Target?

[meowmeow]

after raiding abit in 10 mans (4 raids, 1 disci, 3 holy, 2 raids as holy before ihc nerf):
disci spec is a nice 1 target healer, mana return was okey. healing was okey (didn't see the log yet, but tank didn't die, and as discipline thats pretty much what i did, can't say it was much interesting, after a few crits procing devine ageis makes you wow, then its not that interesting. on encounters i didn't use sheild at all, only greater heal spam, sheild cost as disci was almost equal to a greaterheal).
disci priest will be the best replacement if your guild lacks good holy paladins that fails on healing mt's.
on the next 3 raids i went with a holy paladin, and twice with a shaman. i healed MT as holy and tbh it felt much better (healing wise and i'm sure log wise same). as holy mana was a bitch when it came to me raid healing. when i healed 1 target my mana was equal almost to discipline and the IHC and HC was awesome. the nerf (1 raid after nerf as holy) is really not a huge nerf. only the proc rate kinda dissapionts me. but for 1 target healing seeing 15k-16k crits is amazing. as i said: as holy the only problem i had was mana efficancy spaming coh is really not an option, using it alot in general, when it comes to flash healing - i rather used the gheal its very not mana afficient.

So if i had to chose: i'd go for paladin as main MT healer, disci priest if you don't have that spammer on him or holy priest. i see both holy and disci able - to my experience i was able - to heal properly MT - i guess its just a matter of choise at the end.

after all as disci you are very efficiant as 1 target healer, while as holy - i did the same probably gave more hps, but also had the ability to heal raid.

must i add: i didn't play with silent resolve. something wierd with Prom - seems like its now a priest heal and give the priest agro (probably beta bugg), all i did was not pom but precast. worked like a charm - no healing agro, not even on trash (and as a priest for me its common on live to see some runing towards me).

i will check my logs and the report and then mail to blizz as was asked and update here (since i don't post on beta forums)

[Raptorg]

@OP you're forgetting some things

mana management and blizzard said that holy was supposed to be the all-round healer with the "big heals" but he'll be less mana efficient then the disc priest

raw healing power is one thing

keeping that healing up, is another

blizzard intents that holy won't be able to heal single targets as long as disc will
but they will be able to aoe/raid heal much better


ofcourse, this brings another issue..

holy concentration, maybe it should go down in the disc tree(instead of high in the holy tree)

add shadow spells, and voila, you got yourself one amazing talent

disc will be able to keep up their single target healing more efficiently then holy, but holy won't lose their holy concentration
and shadowpriests will be able to heal more efficiently, and get a small boost in mana management when dealing damage


they did it for shaman.. i don't see why they shouldn't do it for priests, it's an excellent concept

[meowmeow]

mana management and blizzard said that holy was supposed to be the all-round healer with the "big heals" but he'll be less mana efficient then the disc priest

raw healing power is one thing

keeping that healing up, is another

blizzard intents that holy won't be able to heal single targets as long as disc will
but they will be able to aoe/raid heal much better


ofcourse, this brings another issue..

holy concentration, maybe it should go down in the disc tree(instead of high in the holy tree)

add shadow spells, and voila, you got yourself one amazing talent

disc will be able to keep up their single target healing more efficiently then holy, but holy won't lose their holy concentration
and shadowpriests will be able to heal more efficiently, and get a small boost in mana management when dealing damage


they did it for shaman.. i don't see why they shouldn't do it for priests, it's an excellent concept

well i was going to discuss my WWS log here, but i see a mass XP person like you has already decided. good to know you know these things.
since reading this person who thinks he knows but probably hasnt played one day on a lvl 70 priest in beta kinda made me abit cba writing here what i saw from the log i sent to blizz.

in any way holy and disci are based on 2 diffenert gamestlye ofc (like i don't think anyone though differently).
as holy i did more hps (much more) more efective heals less overheal (on most encounters i had 27%-35% as holy, as discipline i had 57-69%).
the mana return was abit higher as discipline, yet considering the huge gimp it did to my HPS, i was 1 target healer - no coh to raidheal with.
generally as discipline i healed much less, was lower on meters and high on the raw healing. as holy i actually healed for alot more, effectively with high hps.

if i compare the gheal on WWS:
as discipline the range was 6.5 - 9k (6508 - 9107) of the greater heal, as in holy the range was alot higher: highest crit: 16507! average gheal: 10358.

as holy you are much more pve build for healing, sorry for the harsh dissapointment for the koraa fans. disci is valid for pve MT healing but even if i compare to the paladin that was with me as holy - his hps on 1 target was higher then disci me, he did much more effective healing on the 1 target - and seemed like his mana was much better then mine as disci.

i only once went as GS specc, GS is a nice "oh shit" button though not that amazing for pve, but as a raider i think i will chose IDS. the only problem i have is that its not GS or IDS choice, i also need to lose points in more talents - that improve my healing. being holy is pretty much exactly the same as lvl 70 no new stuff, not even a new spell to brag about. yet if i decide i won't go to the 51 talent point, i still need to "lose" additional talents in holy.
divine hymm is not that usefull in pve for me.

[Sonic018]

the other problem is, that the holy tree isn´t that genious. ´We would ned some additional talent points ^^. Maybe thex should change the number of points we have to spent for every talent as they did for shadow...

[Sovereign_ktf]

I don't understand if they wanted to make Disc the best Single target tank healing spec for priest why would they make Empowered Healing so good now and so deep into the Holy Tree?

40% to your GH and 20% to your Flash if you pile up all the Disc talents there is no way they equal the amount of healing that can be done with a Holy speced priest and his monstrous Greater Heals.

At least they have Penance I guess.

"Spellpower:
All items and effects which grant bonuses to spell damage and spell healing are being consolidated into a single stat, Spellpower. This stat will appear with the same values found on items which grant “increased spell damage and healing” such as on typical Mage and Warlock itemization.
For classes which do not heal, they should see no change in the character sheet other than new tooltip wording.
Healing characters will see their bonus healing numbers on the character sheet decrease, however, all healing spells have been modified to receive more benefit from spellpower than they received from bonus healing, with a net effect of no change to the amount healed by their spells. Some talents have had to be rebalanced to accommodate this change, but the amount healed will remain roughly the same. In addition, some talents will provide only healing spell power. "

[Tribu]

Gratz making an acronym nobody know.

You are just a FMM

Its used in some item compearing addons also so not noone knew stuff....

[rikken]

Discipline has, in terms of healing power only three things going for it. Shields, Grace and Focused Power. So +6% healing from Grace, Strong shields and +4% spellpower from FP. If you look at the holy tree you see that Spiritual Healing alone (+10% to your healing spells) is way more usefull in terms of healing throughput. Now the rest of the talents in the Holy tree also boost healing/efficiency a LOT. Spiritual Guidance, Empowered Healing together with talents like Test of Faith and Serendipity for mana. Lightwell is now worth casting, so a second usefull heal, CoH is still good assuming the bugs get fixed.

What discipline brings is Spirit Buff, Grace and Penance. Grace however is just to make up for the poor healing throughput (Since no healing spells actually get buffed in the disc tree), and no where near the holy tree buffs. Penance is a nice and effective heal, but on a 10-8 second cooldown. Spirit buff has definetely lost it's shine (Improved Divine Spirit isn't even worth taking anymore, in a raiding environment).

So if you'd ask me, who would I pick if I base it purely on the ability to keep a tank up? Well Holy seems a lot stronger at doing this, coupled with the ability to AoE Heal effectively and in the off-chance that the tank does drop to low and gets pummeled you have Guardian Spirit together with a talent that increases your healing and chance to crit to bring the tank back up too full. Disc, I don't see a discipline being an "effective" Main Tank healer, apart from the "I put my shield up to buy the others more time to heal the tank".

On top of that a discipline priest is STILL the only healer that actually has a negative effect on the tank he is healing, unless a death knight. Whether or not the effect is big or not, it's still negative and imo destroys the synergy between tank and healer. Because let's face it... if you can pick why go for the healer that heals in a way that has a negative impact on your rage generation/mana regen, if all the other healers are just as good in keeping you up? I'd say a druid as it stands now is twice the healer a discipline priest will ever be (Very strong HoTs, combined with a stronger and more efficient fast heal and a stronger and more efficient bigger heal and an ability to make your next cast instant = huge lifesaver).

I'm sorry I just don't agree. I'm assuming you haven't played beta. Disc's strength comes from its ability to shield a target, and place a shield when they crit. Everytime the weakened soul debuff is up (which should be 100%) the priest's crit chance goes way up.

Also I think you need to keep up with blue posts, think it was kalgan that said he healed naxx 10 man the other day as full disc and the tanks (pally and warrior) felt no loss in threat gen. Tanks are not as reliant as being hit anymore as before.

Try rolling a disc priest and let some people just sit there and nuke him, be surprised at how easy it is to keep them up. Not flaming =p just think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how disc priests are shaping up.

[Einzweidrei]

sheild cost as disci was almost equal to a greaterheal).

Come again?

Doesn't a fully talented shield effectively return mana, rather than cost mana?

[Telitzp]

Come again?

Doesn't a fully talented shield effectively return mana, rather than cost mana?

Not even close.

At level 80, we will need to do about 10,000 healing / absorption to reach the 2.5% total mana back.

Shield currently absorbs (beta) about 4200-4800. Which means, we get back: a whopping 105 mana.

Cost of the shield is: 613

Rapture in its current form is UTTERLY useless.

[derevka]

Telitzp, is right. Useless.

[meowmeow]

Come again?

Doesn't a fully talented shield effectively return mana, rather than cost mana?

no it doesn't. when it comes to tank healing as discipline priest, sheilding as a healing tech i think isn't powerfull for pve mt healing (but thats theory craft about how healing MT, which i assume you should know).
ofc you can dissagree - as i wrote before at the end gheal and sheild cost almost same mana (after rapture effect).

[Mandible]

After having tried disc on the ptr I can only say its REALLY lacking - I knew it was lacking before, but this is amazing. In tier 6 + some sunwell your heals don't get anywhere near what a gheal would do in holy spec. Basicly the only thing it has running for it is the haste thing, and that gets ruined by the insane cd.

Also unless you got an amazing amount of crit (nerfing other important stats) then divine aegis doesn't proc enough for my taste.

[Telitzp]

After having tried disc on the ptr I can only say its REALLY lacking - I knew it was lacking before, but this is amazing. In tier 6 + some sunwell your heals don't get anywhere near what a gheal would do in holy spec. Basicly the only thing it has running for it is the haste thing, and that gets ruined by the insane cd.

Also unless you got an amazing amount of crit (nerfing other important stats) then divine aegis doesn't proc enough for my taste.

Penance looks cool tho! lol

[Mandible]

Yes, can't overlook the imba talent named "improved looks" makes priest spells and abilities look ekstra cool but removes the last % of efficiency it might have had . Or was that a glyph...

[thethain]

Discipline REALLY needs something to call their own (and a shield every 15s per target isn't enough)
Holy Concentration, Imp Holy Concentration, Empowered Healing all combine to mean that a holy priest is a better single and AoE healer than a disc priest.

Altho....
It might be fun to just have a disc priest spam heals on a tank for like 30s before a pull with innervate and such just to see how big a shield they can build on the tank.

[shyg]

I believe the current advantage of Disc MT healing is the crit shields that refresh and add to each other, extending a tanks life when it is at full health and increasing the Healing Critical percentage, something that no other healing classes other than ret paladins get. Crit Heals also return mana rather like a paladin, making it easier for a Disc priest to spam-cast the MT while maintaining good efficiency, something Holy Priests can't do in the clutch, Serendipity notwithstanding.

That is the advantage of Disc over Holy, 180% crit heals, which with enough crit chance might help make up the gap coming from Emp. Healing and Healing Power.

[Neeklus]

Whatnow?! Shields are going to be stackable??

[shyg]

Whatnow?! Shields are going to be stackable??

Hey don't get too excited there. I don't have a link, but I distinctly recall reading that Divine Aegis would refresh and add to itself.

Or maybs I got it confused with the the change to Blessed Recovery, but I don't think so.

[Mora]

Yes, divine Aegis stacks on itself. Now one thing a lot of people are forgetting is the fact that disc healing gear is MUCH different than current priest gear. It will be all about spellpower, int haste and crit. Mana per 5 and spirit will both take a back seat to the new required stats...we'll be like DPS casters but without the need for hit. The more int you have, the higher crit, the higher mana pool, and it modifies regen. more crit means more inspiration procs and mana returned, and higher haste means more heals being put on the target at a faster rate.

I think there's still a lot to be seen, but it doesn't change the fact that I will be spec-ing Disc. I see the benefits of the build, you just have to understand that gearing is going to be different.

[meowmeow]

The more int you have, the higher crit, the higher mana pool, and it modifies regen. more crit means more inspiration procs and mana returned, and higher haste means more heals being put on the target at a faster rate.

I think there's still a lot to be seen, but it doesn't change the fact that I will be spec-ing Disc. I see the benefits of the build, you just have to understand that gearing is going to be different.

so...

like a paladin?