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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Keile's Avatar
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    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Warcraft
    You can't gauge the new Protection Paladin properly without Shield of Righteousness, which you unfortunately don't get until level 75. ShoR accounts for about 24% of single target threat according to current Naxx reports. And, it can crit upwards of 20K with Avenging Wrath up.

    You are wrong. Spell damage weapons are better for AE tanking and have averaged up to 200TPS higher on single targets than an equal speed melee weapon. That is, when weapon speed even counted. It does not even matter anymore because HotR was normalized in the last beta patch.
    AE MAYBE, but im talking tanking in general, and you do not want to be tanking a boss with a spell power weapon as your threat will be far lower due to smaller HotR hits.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  2. #22

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Keile
    Well obviously you didnt understand all the paladin changes that have been repeated over and over, so i thought i would have to repeat myself to make them sink in.

    All that info has already been stated several times, by several people including blizzard blue posters.
    Well obviously mis-reading something makes me clueless to things going on around me

    However it was nice of you to take it upon yourself and talk to me like a five year old. How very noble, you should take that somewhere where it would make a difference to the world. I am sure repeating things three times will do wonders.

    Fair point, no?
    Fair point, no?
    Fair point, no?

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Keile's Avatar
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    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by mrfinch
    Well obviously mis-reading something makes me clueless to things going on around me

    However it was nice of you to take it upon yourself and talk to me like a five year old. How very noble, you should take that somewhere where it would make a difference to the world. I am sure repeating things three times will do wonders.

    Fair point, no?
    Fair point, no?
    Fair point, no?
    I'm just sick and tired of paladins complaining and whining because they dont seem to understand that their whole class mechanic has changed from what they are used to.

    Things that work now, wont work once 3.0 and WotLK are live, and people dont like change. Some even refuse to change. Go read the beta forums and look at all the posts of idiot pallies complaining about HotR because they were using spell damage weapons like they are now, so it was hitting for crap damage and causing crap threat.

    Just like with my shaman, people haven't regemmed/re-enchanted off str gems and enchants over on the PTR and i have seen them complainabout dps (granted Windfury is broken and wont proc off mainhand attacks). It's a class change and people aren't coping with it the way they should.

    Lemme put it this way:
    I watched my bro do The Nexus, they had a pally tank in warrior gear, and his weapon was The Sun Eater. My bro was a ret pally. Not one person ever pulled agro off that paladin and he didnt have Shield Slam spell yet.

    You cant judge stuff by the way it is on 3.0, you have to wait till the xpansion actually comes out, in post 70 content it all changes dramatically.

    For AE you guys are right use a spell power weapon, but for smaller groups of 1-3 use a stronger weapon so you can hit them hard with HotR and gain lots of threat (and mana if needed).

    I'm really not singling anyone out from here, I'm just tired of hearing pallies complain a lot when they finally got all the buffs they needed, they just seem so ungrateful.

    All i know is all this content has my wanting to play my prot pally again who is gathering dust >.>
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  4. #24

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    You guys realize that the "T" in "PTR" stands for Test, right? You're all acting as if this is the final version of your talents and resigning yourselves to potentially sub-par tanking "until 80". If you genuinely think something's wrong with it, submit feedback via the PTR client. That's what it's frikkin there for!

  5. #25

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    i know it's not done I wanted comments on the current talents and what we would do at live 3.0 if it did stay this way.

    I also know we should get a new 11pt Talent to replace Kings.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Keile's Avatar
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    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    i know it's not done I wanted comments on the current talents and what we would do at live 3.0 if it did stay this way.

    I also know we should get a new 11pt Talent to replace Kings.
    They are also adding one or two talents at the bottom of the tree for prot/ret.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  7. #27

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Keile
    I'm just sick and tired of paladins complaining and whining because they dont seem to understand that their whole class mechanic has changed from what they are used to.
    I didn't complain. I didn't whine. I merely made a mistake after mis-reading something. I am only human after all

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Keile's Avatar
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    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by mrfinch
    I didn't complain. I didn't whine. I merely made a mistake after mis-reading something. I am only human after all
    Yeah, sorry i snapped. I just had to vent >.<
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  9. #29

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Anyway

    I've just done a spot of PvP as Prot, Its far form perfect but certainly a lot better than it is on live. Your main job is by no way going out and smashing faces, you are playing a support role and being a general pain in the arse.

    Its not one big thing that makes the difference but lots of little ones.
    -BoS and the replenishment Mechanics and the new Seal/Judgement system mean your never flat our of mana.
    -Avengers Shield, I love this thing now, instant cast 30 yard 10 second snare that skips around critting people for 2.5k
    -Divine Shield + Devine Guardian is great for turning the tide of a battle. Its like you generate an mini bubble for everyone around
    >:7

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  10. #30

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Mmm Avengers shield glyph...1 target 100% increased dmg, yes, thank you.

    I haven't tried the DS/DG thing personally, when it redirects the damage to you, do you take said dmg? Or because you are "immune" you don't.

    Regardless, just stand there and spam heal yourself I guess if it did make ya eat dmg.
    I play the class in WotLK that is the worst spec class, that got nerfed, while all the other spec's got buffed.* Which class is that?* All of them of course...if you believe forum posts

  11. #31

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Yeah you take no damage, so you can just stand there and feel smug that you are helping everyone
    >:7

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  12. #32

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    I get the feeling Judgement of Light will get "fixed"

    I've just rounded up 5 Crazed Colossus from SMV (elite giant rock guys that break apart) and killed them without even using seal of light.
    >:7

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  13. #33

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    before the stamina talent nerf prot palas had about same hp as warriors with equal gear (full bt/hyjal/t6), with the nerf pallys will have less hp

  14. #34

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    They might have less HP for now but that doesn't mean that will be the case in future as the stat allocation on our gear isn't spread quite as thin anymore
    >:7

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  15. #35

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    it's not about the stam on our gear it's about the base stam our class gets.

  16. #36

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Keile
    AE MAYBE, but im talking tanking in general, and you do not want to be tanking a boss with a spell power weapon as your threat will be far lower due to smaller HotR hits.
    HotR currently does not make a Melee weapons better then SP since you will still want to spam all your AE abilities while single tanking a boss and a high Dmg weapon means nothing for every ability you have other then HotR while SP helps everything but HotR and SotR.

  17. #37

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylus
    HotR currently does not make a Melee weapons better then SP since you will still want to spam all your AE abilities while single tanking a boss and a high Dmg weapon means nothing for every ability you have other then HotR while SP helps everything but HotR and SotR.
    Except for the fact that all of our AE abilities and judgements now scale with attack power, which you are never going to get from a SP weapon, thus you're going to get more benefit from a slow, high dmg weapon. How are people not getting this? At first, I still wanted to use a SP weapon, the new mechanics were then explained to me, and that was that. Now, that's not to say a SP weapon won't be useless in certain situations, but for the long-term, you're going to have to just become a holy warrior, end of story.

  18. #38
    Blademaster
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    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    From my perspective of being lvl 80 Prot in Naxx in beta: Shield of Righteousness ends the argument. Between HotR, ShoR, Judgement, and Holy Shield there is no room for Consecration in a rotation for mob pulls of 4 or less. I also find it impossible to lose aggro with simply switching targets each ShoR and Judgement cooldown to keep threat even on them all. No one with their 3-4k dps can even match HALF my threat on any one mob. Who cares if you eek out 200 more tps on AoE tanking when no one can pull aggro while you are holding an actual tank weapon with more mitigation and avoidance than that silly spell damage weapon? Give me stats over having my threat a few points higher.

    You lost Def? Tank weapon. Lost hp? Tank weapon. Lost avoidance? who cares, doesn't matter anymore.

    It is pure and utter JOY to tank at 80. And I do it in all Str/Stam gear with a Tank weapon and I love every minute of it. (The best is when the DKs don't realize it when they Death Grip you to them and you kick their ass with your sword and board cause they are too impatient to put up any debuffs before reeling you in)

    The only issue in Beta currently is that is incredibly hard for a Warrior/DK/Paladin to become uncrittable, but Blizz is aware and fixing the issue.

    Don't worry about the month or so the 3.0.2 patch will be live before LK launches. Just look forward to Northrend and all the badass encounters they have in store for us. The Prot tree has drastically changed, as has how Blizz wants us to tank. It takes a while to transition from the mindset of Spell Damage to Strength, but trust a beta player, once it clicks, you will be in tanking heaven.

  19. #39

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    Quote Originally Posted by Grenwalis
    From my perspective of being lvl 80 Prot in Naxx in beta: Shield of Righteousness ends the argument. Between HotR, ShoR, Judgement, and Holy Shield there is no room for Consecration in a rotation for mob pulls of 4 or less. I also find it impossible to lose aggro with simply switching targets each ShoR and Judgement cooldown to keep threat even on them all. No one with their 3-4k dps can even match HALF my threat on any one mob. Who cares if you eek out 200 more tps on AoE tanking when no one can pull aggro while you are holding an actual tank weapon with more mitigation and avoidance than that silly spell damage weapon? Give me stats over having my threat a few points higher.

    You lost Def? Tank weapon. Lost hp? Tank weapon. Lost avoidance? who cares, doesn't matter anymore.

    It is pure and utter JOY to tank at 80. And I do it in all Str/Stam gear with a Tank weapon and I love every minute of it. (The best is when the DKs don't realize it when they Death Grip you to them and you kick their ass with your sword and board cause they are too impatient to put up any debuffs before reeling you in)

    The only issue in Beta currently is that is incredibly hard for a Warrior/DK/Paladin to become uncrittable, but Blizz is aware and fixing the issue.

    Don't worry about the month or so the 3.0.2 patch will be live before LK launches. Just look forward to Northrend and all the badass encounters they have in store for us. The Prot tree has drastically changed, as has how Blizz wants us to tank. It takes a while to transition from the mindset of Spell Damage to Strength, but trust a beta player, once it clicks, you will be in tanking heaven.
    i copied my pally over last night and did the rework on the tree, WOW is there a difference in everything a pally has at thier disposal for DPS/TPS, dmg mitigation and overall survivability. i got to the isle of quel and was running around before i realized that everything there hated me i had about 15 guys on my, took me about 3 min to burn them all down. between HoR, consecrate, Blessing of Sanc., and holy shield i burned them down w/o going below 90% life and mana, while i was using the Shattered sun warr tank shield and weapon. the imp STR put my block at 406, that is freaking GREAT btw. lol. the only thing i dont like is how the prot tree is heavy at the top and bottom and SUPER thin in the midle i really wish there was some real improvements on Devo aura, i stiill dont think that it offers alot of real benefit esp when ret aura scales with AP now.

  20. #40

    Re: Prot not so great on PTR

    The Prot tree does have wholes in it at the moment, Except some pala-filler in the next build
    >:7

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