Latest Nerf to Buff ratio

[Mandible]

Lets see:

DS: Why wasn't this changed to be raid as well?
Improved DS: Nerf - if its only the DS applied spirit, also still alot less than what other classes will bring.

Grace: I'm close to saying remove the damn thing allready when they can't figure out how to make it stand against Blessing of Sanctuary.
Borrowed time: Not sure - but if it comes to getting talents in holy that actually means something in regards to healing then I'm 100% skipping that one. Also rather sure you won't need this talent in the end.

Can't spec 51 disc for 70 to get desperate prayer: pve nerf imo - a 2 min cd 5k selfheal should be available to all.
- still missing besides grace fix: Enough healing effect for single target healing, less bloat.

Holy: overall only buffs (but ofc. also setbacks to how it used to be ofc).

Shadow:
VT: serious nerf seeing as neither hunters nor paladins are limitied to a set amount of skills that trigger the effect.
Dispersion: part nerf part buff - not really sure where to put it with the way it is now. Seeing as you can get aoe dam in pve.

Overall - some buffs, but the nerfs are sticking out like something nasty you don't want sticking out.

[satty]

VT: serious nerf seeing as neither hunters nor paladins are limitied to a set amount of skills that trigger the effect

Your Judgement spells have a 100% chance to grant the Replenishment effect to up to 10 party or raid members mana regeneration equal to 0.25% of their maximum mana per second, and to immediately grant you 20% of your maximum mana.

What are you talking about? Have you even checked that before posting? :/

[Mandible]

yes yes, my mistake - was looking at current changes only. But priests are still in a worse situation than the other two classes.

[Lolatheb]

yes yes, my mistake - was looking at current changes only. But priests are still in a worse situation than the other two classes.

Is this somekind of joke?
I can't understand dude, you don't plan to use Mind Blast in your DPS rotation in WotLK?

"Replenish" is just a mana battery buff that all 3 classes are going to provide. And it's going to be the same.
Ofc, it will be triggered in a different way, not all 3 classes have the same spells >.<

Regardless of the crap tooltips they have made, every class will have a way to renew the "Replenish" buff.
SPs will have Mindblast, Paladins Judgments and Hunters arcane shot etc. And from the looks of it the buff will be up for 15seconds. I don't understand why you cry a river....

[Bananas]

Can't spec 51 disc for 70 to get desperate prayer: pve nerf imo - a 2 min cd 5k selfheal should be available to all.

Are you really worried about something you'll only have to deal with for a couple weeks between the time the patch and the Xpac are released?

Considering this used to be humans only and a 10 min cd, I think having it available for every race to spec and droping the cd to 2 min is a rather big improvement.

[Mora]

Are you really worried about something you'll only have to deal with for a couple weeks between the time the patch and the Xpac are released?

Considering this used to be humans only and a 10 min cd, I think having it available for every race to spec and droping the cd to 2 min is a rather big improvement.

humans and dwarves (gonna miss that damn spell ) and looking at anything patch related and trying to make it work for 70 is going to be tough...this is all designed for 80.

[dionadar]

[...]
Holy: overall only buffs (but ofc. also setbacks to how it used to be ofc).
[...]
Overall - some buffs, but the nerfs are sticking out like something nasty you don't want sticking out.

Unless you have got 20% crit, holy conc was nerfed?!
Considering that most priests currently hardly get over 15% holy crit, it was nerfed BY ONE FOURTH!?

[Worshaka]

Unless you have got 20% crit, holy conc was nerfed?!
Considering that most priests currently hardly get over 15% holy crit, it was nerfed BY ONE FOURTH!?

You're making that assumption based on TBC gear itemisation... considering the Disc tree is going to have some synergy with spell crit and the philosophy about trying to have ger itemisation standardised I think it's safe to assume there will be significantly more spell crit on priest healing gear than the past. You only need to look at some of the Naxx gear that's been posted on MMO.

In addition the change to holy concentration means you can scale the ability with gear rather than it being a flat percentage that never changes. I think it's a good change, you can choose to improve your crit synergy or you can choose to ignore it...

[Worshaka]

DS: Why wasn't this changed to be raid as well?

Probably an oversight, I'd suggest this will get standardised with the other buffs at some point. Remember this is a work in progress.

Improved DS: Nerf - if its only the DS applied spirit, also still alot less than what other classes will bring.

This is not a black & white nerf... for one its effect will be increased dramatically on classes that don't have gear itemisation for spirit. Paladins, Shamans & Warlocks in particular. I highly doubt that Spriests, Mages & Boomkins will get above 720 spirit and if it is possible it will be towards the very end of WotLK. For holy priests & resto druids you will probably lose a small amount of spellpower but it's hardly going to be noticable. Overall the buff is far more effective to the raid.

Grace: I'm close to saying remove the damn thing allready when they can't figure out how to make it stand against Blessing of Sanctuary.

You're forgetting about the strategy relating to buffs/debuffs that classes bring to a raid. Some other class needs the ability to bring 3% damage reduction so the prot pally doesn't have a unique buff. While you personally will rely on a prot pally don't make the assumption that other guilds will do the same. Utilising grace will allow tanks to use a different blessing, grace can be stacked on classes that don't want BoSanc. And stacking a 6% healing increase on a target (even if it's just you) isn't the most awful thing in the world.

Borrowed time: Not sure - but if it comes to getting talents in holy that actually means something in regards to healing then I'm 100% skipping that one. Also rather sure you won't need this talent in the end.

One of the major problems with PW:S is having the GCD available to use as it's generally been a very inefficent heal spell to utilise. Borrowed time directly increases the effeciency of PW:S and helps limit the GCD issue. Blizzard have stated that Disc is going to revolve around damage prevention shields, if you hate them that much then don't spec Disc. If you do spec Disc and don't get this talent you won't be worth much to your raid.

Can't spec 51 disc for 70 to get desperate prayer: pve nerf imo - a 2 min cd 5k selfheal should be available to all.
- still missing besides grace fix: Enough healing effect for single target healing, less bloat.

Completely irrelevant... the lvl 80 talent trees are not designed for balance at lvl 70. If you heard Blizzard were trying to balance lvl 80 talent trees for lvl 70s you'd be rather annoyed. I suggest you build a bridge and get over this slight annoyance.

Holy: overall only buffs (but ofc. also setbacks to how it used to be ofc).

Pretty general uninformative statement... I thought the idea was to have an in depth discussion?

VT: serious nerf seeing as neither hunters nor paladins are limitied to a set amount of skills that trigger the effect.

As it has been pointed out in other posts, people don't understand the replinishment buff, it lasts for 15 seconds after MB lands. This is just a different way to get a very similar result to the old VT and it stops spriests dotting multiple targets to get OP amounts of regen. So I guess you could argue it's a nerf to that end but it's mechanic is now operating in the way it was intended. I really don't have an issue with this change.

Dispersion: part nerf part buff - not really sure where to put it with the way it is now. Seeing as you can get aoe dam in pve.

I have no idea what part of the dispersion change was a nerf:
1. You can now cast it while stunned, feared & silenced
2. If you don't suffer any harmful attacks/spells and dispersion lasts the entire duration you get a 25% spell damage buff for 1 min

Where is the nerf in that because I can only see buffs. I will say that I don't agree in the condition about not suffering harfmul attacks or spells. I think it's a convoluted condition that is probably best served being removed but it's obviously in there with PvP in mind. While I disagree with it i'm certainly not gonna QQ about it.

Overall the abilities were rebalanced and we got some nice buffs. I think if there was a blue post about spriests getting all their spell damage increased by 10% you'd find a way to turn that into a nerf.

[shyg]

Nerfs didn't really stick out at me. Regen from VT is still on par and Dispersion supplies a decent DPS increase, although one that's usefulness fades as the fight gets longer (A full 25% for a fight of up to a minute where you pre-buff it perfectly, down to a little over 4% for a very long fight, using it on cooldown.)

Imp. DS- Will now provide 80 spell damage plus whatever x class gets from spirit, if memory serves. Before it was 6% of spirit, you would have needed over 1300 spirit to get that back. A buff. Would be nice if it was raid, oversight?

Divine Hymn needs work. The HoT and the incapacitate effects are both good buffs for the spell, but it shouldn't have all targets break on any damage.

Can't think of anything to cry about. Good patch overall, especially since Resto Druids got the nerfbat.