1. #1

    [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I've searched and went over the last few pages but nothing of this was mentioned, that I could find anyway. If so just post the link to thread and I up front apologise!

    However this caught my eye and I just wanted to share it with you all, the paladins of wow!

    What struck me the most is how one can spec little into the holy tree and yet still be just as viable, or in my view, better than a pure holy build(may spec a little into either other tree). [With most upto date talent build]

    First of all I'll list what has to be sacrificed to get the above build

    5/5 Holy Guidance

    instead I could only put 1/5 into the talent: Still I have a 4% increase of Spellpower through intellect. Quite a sacrifice but given its recent nerf in the last build (or prior to recent build) it isnt so 'hurting' to my healing output.

    All talents tier 9 through to 11:

    None of them IMO warrant to be spent on over what else you could get.

    [Judgement of the Pure] A gimmick IMO, why have 10% haste when most of the time you will using Holy Shock and when it crits an instant Holy Light. Even if it doesnt crit, 10% haste on 1 or 2 flash of lights or maybe 1 holy light till you will reuse (if spamming all constantly) holy shock. Doesn't make much sense.

    [Enlightened Judgements] A shame I couldn't get this, so was something I had to sacrifice. The range would be nice, placing the Holy Pally away from immediate harm. If this was moved up in the tree it would be great. But I doubt that would happen.

    [Divine Illumination] Whenever I've specced holy for a raid (if needs must) I've specced this but found it hard to use it to its fullest potential. In total if gcd's are not a problem you would get 10 FoL's casted (if the need arises) or 7 HL's. However the raid situation must be that one needs to spam these heals and often enough, you cant alter your spamming that one button unless one fears the tank or target being healed to be killed. Maybe I've not been using it right but still hard to get in and use it fully. Maybe a longer duration for the CD limit it has?

    [Beacon of Light] Lackluster to be honest with you all. As many of you have voiced just shouted overhealing, and not something usefull in a raid. Also I believe it depends the the raid layout, the other healer class(es) with the BoL pally and the skill of all healers. If one knows the pally will use BoL then they can adjust accordingly. But that will require coordination, most casual guilds, just imo, wont have such dedicated coordination or just lack the skill to coordinate it. Just something I'm shouting out loud. My conclusion of this talent is its very situation on the raid set up, when to use it, and hope that other healers know that you will use it and act accordingly.

    I've not mentioned [Sacred Cleasing] as I see it more a pvp rather than a pve talent.

    Now what you get for leaving out tiers 9 through to 11 in the holy tree.

    You get a nice juicy 33 talent points to place accordingly. I've used the ret tree as its ever so plump with talents a Healadin could use to the fullest.

    I'll just write them instead of a list as this thread is getting rather long:-
    [tab wouldnt work just used spaces :/]

    Improved Judgements: 8 second CD on Judgements (10 normally)
    Heart of the Crusader: 3% crit on target
    Benediction: 10% mana reduction of all instant cast spells
    Conviction: 5% crit
    Pursuit of Justice: 15% run speed
    Sanctified Seals: 3% crit
    Divine Purpose: Removes a stun off a friendly target (could be useful)
    Vengeance: 3% extra holy/physical damage on crit, stack 3 times (grinding)
    Judgements of the wise: 20% max mana return (every 8 second if needs must)

    (an extra 8% crit on top of what you get in holy - very nice indeed)

    Some talents you could swap around if needed. I just placed them into improving ret aura, in case you are grinding in an heroic and the tank (say a druid/warrior) needs that little extra AoE threat. But you can place them elsewhere.

    My conclusion is how bad is the holy tier9-11 talents are!? So lackluster that one would most likely (I would) prefer to spend them in the ret (dps) tree. Just doesnt make any sense at all. Surely if blizz would what a class to have a healing spec then most of their talents will be placed in the holy tree, much like if you want to tank you should at least spend 56 talents (I will come wotk) or 51 in ret to get Divine Storm (essential). The latter half of the Holy Tree IMO is just one silk stocking full of s**t!

    With my build, if you can spam HL's around the raid and then judge to regain that mana spent, you can affectively AoE heal with HS and instant HL and chuck a few FoL's with coordination. Thats mana effeciency!

    Evaluation: Blizzard really do need to get dedicated Holydins to spec further into the Holy Tree. I feel very sad for all holydins with the current beta talent build and hope they will do something about it.

    Please comment away or prove me wrong.

    Thanks!

    Armoury Link

    Nil desperandum! Always follow the Light

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Jivo's Avatar
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    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    if it will be better than a main-holy spec its going to be nerfed/changed either way, so why bother

  3. #3

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    I personally would put a pt. into Repentance. Reasons being: a. 4% of int converted into spell power isn't that much & b. repentance would allow you to be another cc in whatever 5 mans you do (idk, in the end it's your personal choice)

  4. #4

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    I have seen a build like this several times now and I am seriously thinking about speccing it in WotLK.
    However I would drop that 1 point holy guidance and put it in repentance. Imo, repentance > 4 spellpower based on intellect.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000


    This build is a bit more pvp-edged but still more then good enough for PvE.

    In the end, going for judgement of the wise for a healingbuild is surely a good idea.

    Note: I skipped spiritual focus and imp concentration aura because of the new spellpushback mechanics. But since I have to see it in action I might invest some points there when things turn out to be needed and dropping seals of the pure or somehting like that. Shifting around some of the pvp talent in the holy tree for something is else is a possibilty but not a real requirement.


    Edit: spelling and removed double link to same build which was supposed to be another ???

  5. #5

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Damn you Punica >

  6. #6

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    I was actually thinking of specing quit similar to yours, was gonna go for an SoL build but blizzard seems to think that dps needs HoTs and not the healers, so I will have to make do

  7. #7

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by naypalmacus
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    Improved Judgements: 8 second CD on Judgements (10 normally)
    Heart of the Crusader: 3% crit on target
    Benediction: 10% mana reduction of all instant cast spells
    Conviction: 5% crit
    Pursuit of Justice: 15% run speed
    Sanctified Seals: 3% crit
    Divine Purpose: Removes a stun off a friendly target (could be useful)
    Vengeance: 3% extra holy/physical damage on crit, stack 3 times (grinding)
    Judgements of the wise: 20% max mana return (every 8 second if needs must)
    This... is called a Shockadin.
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
    The Power of Avoidance! - DK Tank Required Reading
    DK AP Coefficients
    DK Threat Values

    Aurich von Deathstrike

  8. #8

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    This thread has come up a lot of times, my first post at mmo was with something like this but before they raised the attack power to spell power buff.

    I fiddled with it for a long time, but finally settled on majority holy, really only picking up the crit in ret. Honestly, with divine plea, I'm not running out of mana anyways so I'd rather take the extra spell power / oh shit half cost spells.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    is what I have settled on, assuming no further nerfs. Pre 80 stop at the crit and divine illumination, really effective 70 build.

  9. #9

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montoya
    This... is called a Shockadin.
    ... and a damn fine über-mana efficient healer

  10. #10

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montoya
    This... is called a Shockadin.
    True, but as with shockadins in TBC, the spec is more meant for dps AND healing without having to respec every 5 minutes. Advantage for WotLK is you don't have to switch gear which we have to do now.

  11. #11

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by §èXÿÆñû§69
    ... and a damn fine über-mana efficient healer
    Paladins already are the most mana efficient healers, but with this spec it wouldn't surprise me that we never go below 90% mana when healing.

    let's just not all take this spec, if we do blizzard will either nerve judgement of the wise or move it further down the retritree. ;D ;D ;D

  12. #12

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by Punica1980
    Paladins already are the most mana efficient healers, but with this spec it wouldn't surprise me that we never go below 90% mana when healing.

    let's just not all take this spec, if we do blizzard will either nerve judgement of the wise or move it further down the retritree. ;D ;D ;D
    Ok I call dibs on this spec :P (im just being a jackass*)

  13. #13

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    I had a look at this and liked the idea.

    I will put back my arena gear back on to try this out...

    >Hots
    >Higher Crit on Judgementus (50% talent+gear & base crit) this means more instand FoL
    >CC
    >Damage output
    >Unlimited Mana (when judging lots)
    >More Crit on Spike damage (HoW)
    >Party healing (Divine Storm)
    >Speed increase (POJ)
    >Reduced Mana Costs (only if it count the instant FoL in benendiction
    >Less Chance to be hit, and can remove stuns

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    Tell me what u make of that now?



  14. #14

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Wow, this topic made me bother to register.

    I had been looking at the ret/holy hybrid healing builds early on - with sheath of light so high up the tree I thought it would be an amazing asset to us but it wasnt meant to be.

    But this looks stonking.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    Only change is that Id much rather take Art of War than Infusion of light...

    Means you dont have to start running Holy Shock into your rotations - youll just end up getting an instant cast FoL ready to use when you need it - AoW buff seems to last plenty of time so I figured youd just have it there ready to use when the poop hits the fan.

    Moo

  15. #15

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Tried it out on the beta with a level 70 version (no lights grace).

    Rotation:

    HL,HL,HL, judgeOwis, HL,HL,HL,HL, rinse, repeat.

    Never went below full mana

    With lights grace the mana bar *might* be dented, but Im thinking in the end it will be totally unnecessary to judge every cooldown for mana terms.

    Really looking forward to this builds potential

  16. #16

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by Moatyk
    ... and a damn fine über-mana efficient healer
    Never run out of mana healer is more like it.

    There's enough tasty crit in low level ret to warrent going in pretty deep for a holy build. You will lose some punch in each of your heals however. Plus you get the added fun of standing 10 yards from the boss.

    So the real question is: Will beacon of light ever become good enough that we all need it to heal in a raid?

  17. #17

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    It doubles you HPS. What more would you like to see it do?

  18. #18

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    This spec has been made many times. By the way, take Repentance instead of 1/6 Holy Guidance. Way more useful. Anyway, if Beacon of Light is released the way it is now, all PvE healers will take it now matter what. I don't feel like divulging why for the 5th time.

  19. #19

    Re: [Thoughts] A healing build spent mainly elsewhere, rather bizarre...

    Quote Originally Posted by naypalmacus
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I've searched and went over the last few pages but nothing of this was mentioned, that I could find anyway. If so just post the link to thread and I up front apologise!
    [Divine Illumination] Whenever I've specced holy for a raid (if needs must) I've specced this but found it hard to use it to its fullest potential. In total if gcd's are not a problem you would get 10 FoL's casted (if the need arises) or 7 HL's. However the raid situation must be that one needs to spam these heals and often enough, you cant alter your spamming that one button unless one fears the tank or target being healed to be killed. Maybe I've not been using it right but still hard to get in and use it fully. Maybe a longer duration for the CD limit it has?
    I just macro Divine Illumination, it has no gcd

    /cast Divine Illumination
    /cast Holy Light

    /cast Divine Illumination
    /cast Flash of light

    Not arguing for or against its use, just saying I never click Divine Illumination but it is always up after cooldown.

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