Thread: Righteous Armor

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  1. #1

    Righteous Armor

    Like Bladed Armor for Death Knights, and Armored to the Teeth for Warrior, why not let pallies have it too. +3 STR for every 400 armor you have, Ret pallies can use it as well at prot pallies and to a lesser extent holy pallies.

  2. #2

    Re: Righteous Armor

    No.

    And why not? Because I would like to see classes as unique as possible please.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  3. #3

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    No.

    And why not? Because I would like to see classes as unique as possible please.
    I dont know about flat no, but because Righteous armor seems cool, but not implemented this way.

    Maybe Grants you additional armor equivalent to your spell damage and healing for 30 seconds after you cast a heal spell on yourself.

  4. #4
    High Overlord Necrox's Avatar
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    Re: Righteous Armor

    To be honest I would MUCH prefer to retain some sort of individuallity as well.
    I understand why blizzard are blurring the lines so much between classes, but at some point it has to stop. If they all end up alike, then why have more than 1 class at all.

    Nice talent, but no reason to include it for us as well.
    My name is Necrox, and I'm an altoholic.

  5. #5

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    No.

    And why not? Because I would like to see classes as unique as possible please.
    Something based on Armor how is that. Like the guy above me said Spellpower maybe or even block value based off Armor

  6. #6

    Re: Righteous Armor

    We have spellpower based on stamina, isn't that enough?

  7. #7

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Please dont turn this into a retri whine fest, and i have to agree with rawberry, paladins need at least some little tiny uniqueness, sure it would be nice with that kind of talent but at least dont copy it right from the DK/Warrior talent tree
    If in doubt afk out

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  8. #8

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Can't you both get what you want.

    I 100% agree with rawberry...all this making classes the same suck, classes can be even without having the same spells. I dont wanna run around in the exact same gear doing the same thing as a warrior except my spells do holy damage. Make pallies different and interesting while still being just as viable. We dont need an MS, we need a cool talent that has similar impact that warriors dont have.

    If I want to play a warrior I will take a few weeks and level one...I want my pally to be unique AND effective

  9. #9

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Though the talent sounds nice, it doesn't fit into the paladin class, not just because warrior and deathknight get it that doesn't say anything to me. Besides there other more important talents to address rather than adding a new one.

  10. #10

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrateful
    Seriously that's getting old and frankly it's getting tiresome of reading it over and over. The fact it quite a few paladin mechanics right now other classes are sharing with us. We are anything but this dream of uniqueness that you want to see. I'm sure if you really took the time and went down every talent and every spell in the game you would see in more cases then not that they have either the same type of mechanics or other mechanics that fight the ones we rely on the most to be effective. Rawberry you need to let that pipe dream go even as much as i would of like to see it it's not the case.
    Never, ever twist my words around again Ugrateful, this is the last time I warn you. I never said the Paladin (or any other class for that matter) is unique, I said that I would like to see all classes as unique as possible.

    Saying "We need core features from other classes because other classes also have ours" is completely retarded, the fact that the "uniqueness" of the classes is messed up does not mean you can mess it up even further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrateful
    We need some stuff and it's mostly an interruption and distance closer to be effective in pvp. This divine plea atm is garbage. And for the simple fact is you MS yourself to get mana. We don't even need it because of judgement of the wise. The only way we would need it is if they nerfed us down in replenishment ie jotw to make it an outlet for us.

    Our best and favorite spell for chain crits is now a useless talent point. It would take a total of 24 secs just by judging it to get us to a 3 stack vengeance at 9% overall damage 13% with Crusade.

    We have been getting nerfed on burst damage and haven't been given the on demand spells that would help us combat other classes in pvp. Are you that blind ? Corruption is a must because of the damage it does over time and the crit damage it does when judge. I crit almost everytime with that seal and i don't even need to be full stacked for that to happen.

    We got a judgement system that should of been put in place at the start of TBC with lower ranks of spells that scaled.

    Right now Rawberry you are seeing the paladin class in it's pve fixed state for Retribution and same goes with Prot.

    FFS i 3 man 3 bosses in kara in s2 at level 70 cause the judgement system and the mana replenishment is working that well.

    When it comes to pvp maybe we need to start ninjaing some god damn pvp on demand spells that are base for fight these classes and see the Paladin in it's pvp fixed state.

    You can say im crying or w.e you want but as must as you would like to see uniqueness in the classes i rather see effectiveness in pvp. It doesn't mean i don't respect your idea of having classes unique but i don't agree with it because atm all across the board classes are sharing other classes spells mechanics for pvp and the Paladin has been left out of that trading card game in regards to on demand spells that would be effective in pvp and beneficial to the class.
    Seriously is that all you can talk about? Distance closers and interrupts?

    We have already been in numerous of discussions regarding this point and you know that I could not disagree with you more. Yes the Paladin does not have a interrupt or a distance closer but these are the fundamental weaknesses of a class, weaknesses which each class has.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  11. #11

    Re: Righteous Armor

    What, the argument that every class need it's weakness does not fit the bill?

    You know what, never mind, I'm not getting into another discussion with you.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  12. #12

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Cebeaj
    Please dont turn this into a retri whine fest, and i have to agree with rawberry, paladins need at least some little tiny uniqueness, sure it would be nice with that kind of talent but at least dont copy it right from the DK/Warrior talent tree

    /agree

    however, i do agree that the str to armor conversion would be nice, for mitigation and would probly fix that problem with endgame tanking for pallies.

    on the opposite i agree with rawberry a bit too. something more...Unique like "Spoken Word: only useable on Sinner's(PVE) silence the enemy for 12 sec and release the Spoken Word on them consuming all DOT's on target and instantly damaging the target for total amount" 1 hour CD 30sec cast

  13. #13

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrateful
    Well for starters it is retarded but i don't develop the game and it doesn't make it any less true from what i am saying. I don't what other classes spells that just dumb i want there mechanics. Do you know what mechanics means ? Here let me help you out

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_mechanics

    Read it
    Why would you want the mechanics (a core feature) of an other class? Because they have ours, I mean, that is what you just said.

    Again;

    Saying "We need core features from other classes because other classes also have ours" is completely retarded, the fact that the "uniqueness" of the classes is messed up does not mean you can mess it up even further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrateful
    Well for starter clothies should be weak when a melee class gets in range of them but the fact remains that plate wearing classes hell even leather wearing class aside from Resto druids drop faster then a caster does. That a freaking problem dude in the game. The simple reason for argument sake is because they can kite you around and we have spell that should be clearing that and preventing it and it's not paying the bill.
    Just because the system is flawed at the moment does not mean that every class needs a weakness.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  14. #14

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    We have already been in numerous of discussions regarding this point and you know that I could not disagree with you more. Yes the Paladin does not have a interrupt or a distance closer but these are the fundamental weaknesses of a class, weaknesses which each class has.
    pallies can still be stunlocked by a rogue, dismantled too. hunters can kite easily. mages can kite. priests can kite. locks can kite. the list goes on an on, but this is the pally's weakness. nobody likes a weakness, but every class needs one to create some resemblance of balance

  15. #15

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by takainig

    /agree

    however, i do agree that the str to armor conversion would be nice, for mitigation and would probly fix that problem with endgame tanking for pallies.

    on the opposite i agree with rawberry a bit too. something more...Unique like "Spoken Word: only useable on Sinner's(PVE) silence the enemy for 12 sec and release the Spoken Word on them consuming all DOT's on target and instantly damaging the target for total amount" 1 hour CD 30sec cast
    Next to that fact we already have Blessing of Might.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  16. #16

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    Next to that fact we already have Blessing of Might.

    maybe it is the fac that i am way to tired but im not seeing the corolation :-\

  17. #17

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Quote Originally Posted by takainig

    maybe it is the fac that i am way to tired but im not seeing the corolation :-\
    Death Knights do not have Blessing of Might? We do. They have Bladed Armor. We do not.

    See?


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  18. #18

    Re: Righteous Armor

    Surely Paladins deserve something more than just copy-and-pasted Warrior and DK abilities? I would much rather see us grow through our own strengths.

    For example, look at Ardent Defender; we get stronger as we get closer to death. Warriors don't have any talents like that (that I could find). Death Knights have slightly modified versions that only affect abilities or increase armor. Will of the Necropolis (deep in the Blood tree, remember that Frost is supposedly the 'tanking' tree) "reduces the cooldown of your Anti-Magic Shell by 15. In addition, when you have less than 35% health, your total armor increases by 30%.." Ardent Defender is far superior as it reduces all damage taken, which is funny considering DKs are intended to be anti-caster tanks, but Argent Defender actually works against magic better. Merciless Combat (deep in the Frost tree) only causes "your Icy Touch, Howling Blast, Obliterate and Frost Strike do an additional 6% damage when striking targets with less than 35% health.." Nice, but it does nothing for survivability.

    See, Paladins are a defensive oriented class. In fact, it says so right on our class description; Paladins are a defensive class designed to outlast their opponents. Outlasting our enemies is what we do, and one way we do that is to get annoyingly hard to kill when we're close to being bumped off. Consider when you use Lay on Hands or Divine Shield... when you're at a disadvantage and about to be overtaken. So, for all talent trees, I would love to see many more " effect x when reduced below x% health".

    FOR EXAMPLE;

    "Unrelenting Crusade"
    Retribution Tier 10, 2 points
    Your chance to critically hit is increased by 3/6% when you are below 35% health.


    Now, I know the numbers there are probably overpowered, never mind the damn numbers. What we have here is an ability that lets a Ret pally essentially become even burst-ier when they're on their way out. Combined with Art of War, this vastly increases the Paladin's chances for survival when in a weakened state. This talent would make fighting a paladin a matter of shutting them down any way you can, as it should be. If a class cannot deal with our longevity, they'll think twice before starting a fight. And of course, the numbers would have to be tweaked so you can't just Crit/FoL/Crit/FoL into immortality.

    I'd avoid doing this for Holy, as they shouldn't really be getting damaged too often in PVE and in PVP should be working on healing / shockadinery (It's a word if I say it is). To give them a nice boost, we have Pacifist... a different kind of defensive thinking.

    Pacifist
    Holy Tier 10, 3 points
    Increases your spellpower by 3/6/10% and causes all spells capable of healing targets to return Mana equal to 3/6/10% of the base cost of the spell if you have not caused any damage in the last 12 seconds.


    By 'behaving', you're able to improve your healing vastly (and get mana back, which is a nod towards efficiency and our lost Illumination regen), but more importantly, you're able to cause a crapload of extra shockadin damage by just waiting to cast Holy Shock. I originally proposed 8 seconds of 'playing nice', but it seemed too short, only forcing 2 seconds to wait before getting a souped up Holy Shock again. I would probably increase the spellpower a bit more, or separate the +healing and +spell damage effects... seemed a bit too wordy and complicated, but it'd be worth it.

    Anyways, what we have here are two examples of how Paladins are not Warriors or Death Knights, and should have abilities that make fighting a paladin a risky proposition not because they're able to dish out un-removable debuffs or able to summon ghouls or other gimmicks like that. But because of their survivability. A paladin should outlast their enemies' offensive abilities. A paladin should get stronger as they think he is getting weaker. A paladin should be at his absolute most dangerous and powerful state right when the enemy thinks they are defeated.

    (This is one of the reasons I dislike Prot losing it's reactive threat generation; it always felt great to watch an enemy injure itself more when it attacked you than when you attacked it. Made the tears of pesky rogues and fury warriors taste like candy.)
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  19. #19

    Re: Righteous Armor

    I'm with Rawberry. I dont like the homogenization, or the lack of uniquity. I've been praying to get Holy paladins into melee range since Naxx, if for no other reason, than because there is no melee healer in the game, and it's a cool concept.

    Ret and Prot should be no different, they should have something unique to them, and I think Ret has it, but it's not viable yet. They have the unique combination of great offense and good survivability, but no way to put it to use. They either need better survivability so they can hunker down and let kiters work themselves dry, or they need something, anything, to better protect them from kiters, I dont like the idea of a distance closer, or another stun, or even a snare, I want to be threatening, something that makes them not WANT to get too far from me, so that if they're going to kite me, they have to be good at it, not just Any Class B.

    I always liked the thought of some kind of doom judgement type spell that begins to fry you if you stay far enough away from the Paladin, but it's too easily absued by the Paladin simply running away and letting the spell do its work.

    maybe if you chained them to a stake in the ground like a totem, and they have to destroy the chain to get free, but straying away from the chain causes immense damage? I dunno, I'm reaching for stuff, now, because I dont want to see us become a case of too much damage with nowhere to go. Our burst is too high, so they can't really give us anything special until it comes down, but if they do it wrong, our overall DPS will suffer from it, and that's just trading PvE for PvP, not managing both.

  20. #20

    Re: Righteous Armor

    @Retrogames:
    The idea of Pacifist is totally breaking the new talents / glyphs, where Blizzard want to add seals and judgements into a Holy paladin rotation.

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