Thread: holy at 80?

  1. #1

    holy at 80?

    can i get any feed back on the holy priests raiding in the beta on how well your doing?

    i also heard that disc might be a very viable form of raid healer? how true is this

  2. #2

    Re: holy at 80?

    its not

  3. #3

    Re: holy at 80?

    ok so DISC is no good, what about holy??

  4. #4

    Re: holy at 80?

    We were only given pvp gear and the classes haven't been throughly balanced yet... but from what I could see it's pretty good, many interesting talents, and a disc priest can be used as a main tank healer to reduce the damage a little (though usually unwanted). Overall, I would say the healing balance is still the same from our perspective, except druids have some awesome aoe heal which overlaps our CoH somewhat... But then again it wasn't throughly balanced yet, so gotta want and see.

  5. #5

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by frozenshade
    ok so DISC is no good, what about holy??
    i'm waiting to see priests gets a talent like shamans astral awakening or druids living seed. i'm also waiting for a deep holy or disci replenish effect on renew like a druid has.

    if they call for balance and give all raid buffers priest talents (somehow holyconc, is something you can find at in every tree - gaining haste, tbh: most have more proc chance).

    i'm also waiting to see how GS and dispersion are changed, those 51 pointer's are lame compared to other classes, especially other healers that get a 3 min CD talent after 10-15 points. and their 51 talent pointer desn't have CD (although shaman's one has changed to a HoT, only 6 sec CD).

    i'm also waiting for blizzard to cut the crap of holy being more valiable to pvp.
    really if you wish to pvp as holy go for it.
    i'd rather win, sorry. discipline should become more vailable to pve - i agree. but going holy for pvp sees so stupid, especially since pvp gear is mainly the ressiliance, as a priest if your resiliance is low - you will die, and if its a warrior with w/f you will also die.

    i was expecting to see disci priest get more talents for pvp: i was thinking of somehting like GS for pvp as discipline, a second PS, another wait to outheal rogues poisons or MS. i was expecting to see holy priests get the balance in raids: if all other raidhealer give totems, buff CR, i was waiting to see what a priest gives the raid.

    so: priest did get any talent or ability to give the raid as a buff. their only utility is still for healing mainly - i see no balance in the raid buff, all i see is: druids being OP and having to much mana regen, priests going oom faster then a prot spaming flash on himself, shamans owning, and paladins owning. at the same time that druids shamans and pala's heal in a raid inviornment they buff the raid, while the priest just heals like them, same abilities, just doesn't buff raid (ye stamina raidwide = it was like that before, in my raids everyone played with a stam... GG).

    i was thinking that the holy 51 talent pointer will be some sort of raid buff that stands on the same "balance" as totems, BL, CR, inervate, blessings. ideas were thrown here and there about it. but nothing really can be done.

    wotlk can be either success or failure. from what i see now healer priests will either deminish from the game or become MT healers till they get bored of them coming in a shitty disci spec and the pala will outheal them with they go oom.

    i really really hope that blizz won't do the same mistake they did on BC where then (if you remember) a holy or disci priest was 1 MAX or non in raid: the fact was that we were pure crap. just like now on wotlk we are just pure crap - none the less, the stat that was so important to us now becomes all "clothies" desire. shall i remind you cloth dplpower loot will be the most wanted one with 2/3 mages, 2/3 warlock and 2/3 priests will be the biggest pool in game of cloth loot, and ofc probably blizz won't make cloth loot drop more or high %.... so pretty much i can say:
    holy's was fucked up.

    oh ye - and all the sw grinding and t6 grinding was purely not needed, alsogear choice changing, suddently priests are crit needer?

    so checking all blizz kinda fucked priests up with their *bull shit* and i shall explain:
    priests were the healer that could do everything: raid tank both. and properly. while other classes were good at specific things and buffed the raid. all was good, now we want balance crap. sure. but why fuck the priest over? (pve priest)
    suddently shamans heal 20% more with their healing wave. druids can aoe holy - and ofc how could blizz nerf their 4k hot, aoe hot!? (sarcastic), paladins with the beacon wouldn't have to directly heal the tank.
    so: priests are the new shit MT healer?!?!

    WHEN THE FUCK HAS PRIEST BECOME SUCH A LIMITED CLASS DUE TO MANA PROBLEMS AND SPECC?
    and what the fuck is wrong with our talent trees? we are the only healer class that at lvl 70 won't be able to enjoy the new 51 talent point becuase of meditation:
    and no i can't play without it cause i'm oom. (also think that meditation should be buff - why should i have same spirit vs regen as a mage or a lock? give me also gem emralds and life tap and i will shut about i - after all you said balance).

  6. #6
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    Re: holy at 80?

    can only agree with that - too bad it most likely has to be said on the beta forums instead of here.
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  7. #7

    Re: holy at 80?

    The Priest equivalent to Living Seed and Ancestral Awakening is Divine Aegis. In Holy, the new Surge of Light is a similar use of crit. Holy Paladins get Infusion of Light and Illumination.

    Priests are still in the same boat as other healers. The Beacon doesn't count overheals, so if you're just spot healing the raid, you will be spot healing a tank which probably is in need of a far greater heal. Druids' Wild Growth has undergone significant changes, doesn't quite compare to CoH spam. Shamans' no longer have Spirit Link, don't regularly use max rank Healing Wave, and won't be MT healing.

    All the healing classes need to be looked at, but I'm sure that Holy Priests will be wanted in raids, especially as CoH will be spammable, smart and can be glyphed to heal 6 people. The crits can then be used to fire off a free Flash Heal. Sounds ok to me so far.

  8. #8

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by dimiaerl
    The Priest equivalent to Living Seed and Ancestral Awakening is Divine Aegis. In Holy, the new Surge of Light is a similar use of crit. Holy Paladins get Infusion of Light and Illumination.

    Priests are still in the same boat as other healers. The Beacon doesn't count overheals, so if you're just spot healing the raid, you will be spot healing a tank which probably is in need of a far greater heal. Druids' Wild Growth has undergone significant changes, doesn't quite compare to CoH spam. Shamans' no longer have Spirit Link, don't regularly use max rank Healing Wave, and won't be MT healing.

    All the healing classes need to be looked at, but I'm sure that Holy Priests will be wanted in raids, especially as CoH will be spammable, smart and can be glyphed to heal 6 people. The crits can then be used to fire off a free Flash Heal. Sounds ok to me so far.
    \\

    i went with a resto shaman naxx 10m. he did the MT healing acording to log he did more healing then me and higher HPS with his HW on MT healing, the fact is that he also spawned a spirit that healed and well i didn't....

    divine ageis is weak, deep in discipline and you have to choose: MT healing or raid healing to get it - i don't see shamans or druids in this conflict.
    wild growth came threw changes: so it won't OP CoH, since the first tice was higher then CoH, YET you can't spam CoH, and how can you even compare a druid that can inervate, CR in a PVE raid to a priest that just heals?!

    where is my raid buffing ability?! why does a druid shaman and pala get my abilities and i dont get the raid buffing ability? why are they out healing me with abilities and regen? if i don't get anything to buff the raid i atleast expect to not go oom this fast, to have same lvl talents: how can you even compare a pvp proc sheild of divine ageis to astral awakening - something that actually heals the person.

    call me a heal freak: i expect my spells as holy to heal not to absord damage. if astral awakening and living seed heals - i want it to. i dont want to choose CoH or divine ageis. why can't i have both? and no i disagree with divine ageis being on same lvl as shaman and druid talent: since their talent is "lowes tHP target in raid" while mine just procs a sheild on who i heal. "yey" oh ye and i dont have CoH with it.

    SOL - similar crit to a paladin, oh i'm sorry with my pro gear i have 13% crit chance: AMG AMAZING TALENT!! all talents that are based on crit for priests should become 100% chance that when you crit, since we don't really crit that much. or in other word: man we aren't paladins. another thing - i've been farming SW now for almost 2 months, and BT was like almost a year on farm. i RARELY use flash heal for several reasons and i won't theory craft why - most priests know why. so sol will give me a free flash heal when i rarely use or need it. i dount i will take this talent, if i will i will probably forget to use, or use flash only when if free mana/casting time as instant. SoL doesn't procc often.

    all healing class will need to look at - especially priests and druids. CoH is NOT SPAMABLE!! i assume you are no priest - its not spamable now on live and it won't be spamable on wotlk - like mana bar? heard of that regen sucks. spirit nerf = priest nerf? we also don't crit that much and to gear claculation if you stack on crit to much for a 40% you will lack spirit so badly, if you combine between both - you roughly get 20% crit with talents - "awesome"

    edit: my suggestions and thought have already been mailed to blizzard with my combat log file from 4 naxx 10 mans, my feelings about where priest class and all. my opinion was asked: i was asked to try disci and holy and send my log with what i fell. and i know for a fact that atm the work is done on all classes. chins up guys, the work hasn't been done, and hey - no one said that wotlk will come out on the date they anounced, there hasn't been any anouncement about when the patch will come to live - therefore you know that atm the new talents and skills can't be implemented on live - since they aren't blanaced yet

  9. #9

    Re: holy at 80?

    I actually play a priest, amongst other classes..

    I just wanted to make you realise that it's not all doom and gloom. The talents that you are so envious (Living Seed/Ancestral Awakening) are just a way of making crit rating useful, while reducing overhealing.

    In my opinion, there is not much difference between Living Seed and Divine Aegis other than flavour. Living Seed is planted upon crit as a reactive heal, thus reducing overhealing. Divine Aegis places a shield around absorbing further damage, thus reducing overhealing.

    Damage Healed Reactively is practically the same as Damage Absorbed. You need the damage to be there for it to heal/absorb.

    Ancestral Awakening is a little different since it heals a raid member with the lowest health. This ties in with the group/raid healing aspect of the Shaman and again reduces overhealing. While this means the Shaman heals more, it doesn't confer a boost to MT healing. Living Seed and Divine Aegis are optimal for MT healing as the MT is always taking damage and so the Aegis/Seed is healing/absorbing fully.

    For Holy Priests, Serendipity helps overhealing somewhat, by returning mana. Again, I wouldn't completely discount Surge of Light. This is where our opinions seem to differ. I find CoH to be relatively spammable, and I can't say I've ever seen a Priest only use it once. I mean, there is a reason for all the QQ when a 6 second cooldown was proposed. As you're hitting 5 people each time, I find it very easy to get crits. You're experience may vary, I guess.

    Hopefully, Holy Concentration will get fixed to make the spec more viable and the healing numbers will be adjusted.

  10. #10

    Re: holy at 80?

    Well, first of all I wanna point out we have only pvp gear on the level 80 premades, which is well known to have very little regeneration when compared to pve gear. With that said, I expect there to be more spirit in pve cloth gear that we can get, and perhaps they could add a glyph that would increase meditation by 20% ?

    Now as for the buffs, I find it a shame that we have to talent to get the spirit buff, which by the way felhunters have now (along with intellect which fully replaces the only buff mages have). Moreover, the direction they are going with raiding in wotlk is that you don't need any class at all, several classes can make a good raid, with the correct specs. If you wanna heal with priests apparentelly you are expected to get a 'ret pally / surv hunter / shadow priest', whereas with a pally you should get a moonkin and a mage with focus magic. I'm ok with the way these things are going so far, But I agree with you we are lacking on mana regen on our own... Which I don't like, but seems to be all part of the grand plan of class sinergy in a raid.

    Can't say much about shaman and druid healing since I don't have much experience healing with those, but mana tide was somewhat shadowed by the fact all classes have their own regen now with 'almost mandatory spirit', and bloodlust can't be chained anymore (when you use it everyone affected gets a debuff for 5min that won't allow you to gain bloodlust again). Druids, on the other hand, are currently raid healers because of nourish, but also do a great job on keeping melee up by throwing it on the tank (I expect this skill to be tweaked honestly). Battle Ress will always be awesome though

    Now, guardian spirit... Well, I've tried it, but it just doesn't feel right... it feels to me like a pvp skill because you just don't know when a tank is gonna die (and 40% extra heal for 10 seconds once every 3min is a joke to me... is it to cover while the druid battle resses or something ?)... If I continue playing my priest (atm I'm interested on pallies, though not for balace issues) I'm going with this spec for raiding, most likely. Note that I'm not getting improved spirit because as is it will give only 80 spell damage, an ammount I consider unworthy of two talent points that can be put deeper at holy.


  11. #11

    Re: holy at 80?

    You took lightwell over a real talent.....

    wai?

  12. #12

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntrails
    You took lightwell over a real talent.....

    wai?
    Because if the dps is too lazy to click something that is at melee range from them it isn't my fault. It has decent healing now, and doesn't break as easily anymore... you could check the other options with a single talent point, but personally I find it better that's 'wai'.

  13. #13

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    I healed za as 14/rest/0 spec, I've been shadow for years so i don't have a prejudice about 'what it used to be' and am only 70 atm, not 80.

    What i can tell you is that holy is amazing compared to disc, the new raid coh is just afkhealing, it's like chain heal on steroids, point it in generally the right direction and you can watch tv.
    personally i leveled my priest from 70-80, atm i don't have pvp gear but pve gear. on lvl 70 i went with a shaman friend from my guild to ZA. usualy we go together i do roughly 45-50% healing and he does 30-35%, on the raw healing ofc i do the most. we went again on to test. we loged ofc - since you can't really check the amounts and stuff. i can tell you - i wasn't that high in fact he did more healing then me. must i add: we both had same MS, and well i just don't understand how the same person i farm ZA with and outheal so easily outheals me. i know why and i mentioned it before. regardless to ppl thinking "omg holy is pro". holy is oom! so oom.

    i'm now lvl 80, with my charr i climb well slowly to 80. amoungst more from my guild doing experiments checking things, especially to arrange the raiding. yet i'm soo oom, i play just the same as lvl 70 holy, and the most frustrating thing - my HPS is almost the same - although i already have wotlk gear (from lvl 76 blues and some Quest rewards are better then sw by a small bit, abit dissapointing i thought i could raid with my sw gear). seeing that paladin, druid shaman's HPS has improve significally yet i have changed the same is very frustrating.

    i get the balance thing, druids shamans and paladins should be able to heal like a holy priest - okey. but i really think that the balance hasn't been done properly. ppl who went on the beta and played 5 mins as holy and never played before wont notice it.
    holy priest at 70 is already amazing - the reason is that holy priest only heals all his talents are about his healing, he doesn't buff the raid at all, while other classes do. there for he is a very strong healer.
    i can tell you that at lvl 80 - every one is as strong or atm even stronger healer then the priest. and the balanced hasn't been done towards the priest: the priest still hasn't got his way of buffing the raid (same level as BoK, HoS, CR, totems, BL etc.), even if one or more of these talents were slightly nerfed, they still are able to use it. for all i care - give me a 10 miin BL that the raid gets a 5 min debuff. i don't mind, just give me something to give the raid. i can't offer my healing now cause a shaman druid and paladin heal almost like me (atm shaman and resto druid even better), my mana is MEHHH :/ and coh = oom so fast.

    i am sure developers are siting now - thinking about checking our 51 talent point. GS as i said can be extremely epic for disci. and tbh - i don't see why disci shouldn't get another servivability talent. i would be really happy that on weekends when i specc disci to PVP i'll have GS to annoy the rogues and warriors. and for the holy - i see the 51 talent pointer should be reserved to some sort of raid PVE buff. that will place the balance between healer's raid buffing at the same level. (then i hope developers will notice there are to many points in holy tree, and that without meditation i can't play there-for the only healer who won't be able to even chose the 51 talent pointer). from what i've seen now: no new blue posts on priest: meaning:

    dev dont have time to chat on forums but actually work on improving the blanace between the classes.

    edit: can't wait to see the next patch and changes!!!

  14. #14

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by meowmeow
    i'm also waiting for blizzard to cut the crap of holy being more valiable to pvp.
    really if you wish to pvp as holy go for it.
    i'd rather win, sorry. discipline should become more vailable to pve - i agree. but going holy for pvp sees so stupid, especially since pvp gear is mainly the ressiliance, as a priest if your resiliance is low - you will die, and if its a warrior with w/f you will also die.
    If you actually listen to blizzard, Disc was never intended to be a pvp tree and holy a pve tree... it's just that the playing community liked what disc had to offer for PvP and overwhelmingly chose that tree. That is also an indication that blizzard failed with the holy tree because it became grossly under represented in pvp.

    Every talent tree for every class should be viable for pvp... we already see multiple trees viable for pvp in some classes. Hunters pvp as BM & MM quite a bit and i've even seen the occasional survival hunter for wyvern sting. Most mages are frost but some still try POM Pyro.

    Whenever a class got pigeon holed into taking the 1 spec, such as locks SL/SL, it was an indication the talent trees failed. The best thing Blizz could do is introduce pvp viability into those trees that were grossly under represented.

    Lastly I can't see your logic in believing that disc needs to be more viable for pve but totally against the flip side of that coin which is making holy more viable for pvp.

  15. #15

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by perera
    Because if the dps is too lazy to click something that is at melee range from them it isn't my fault. It has decent healing now, and doesn't break as easily anymore... you could check the other options with a single talent point, but personally I find it better that's 'wai'.
    Without being rude, from my experience everything is your fault. I can't remember the last time melee got blamed for dying, since they'll parrrot 'WTB healz' and so on. Healers remind me of goalies in football, it is a team effort - but blaming the keeper always seems to work <3.

    I would be looking at another point in guidence/spir healing. (Don't know which is scaling better atm.) Either way, what I was really asking was does lightwell actually work well now? I don't believe it - but it might


  16. #16

    Re: holy at 80?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntrails


    I would be looking at another point in guidence/spir healing. (Don't know which is scaling better atm.) Either way, what I was really asking was does lightwell actually work well now? I don't believe it - but it might

    from my XP - which isn't much. i did 4 times naxx 10m and plenty of 5m. 1 25 man naxx. i sort of stoped on the beta (i'm feeling like i'm checking the present before acctually geting it, i want to leave abit of excitment in wotlk when it comes to live).
    light well new changes make it worth the 1 point. it would be awesome to have a change with the clicking things, maybe not allowing a double click (so spam clickers won't just kill the lightwell). besides that lightwell is only 1 point, it doesn't run off untill the player lost 30% hp - it wotlk i found it very good to use - also short CD of 3 mins, really nice to open it above the melee or in casters group, clicking it isn't a gcd and with lightwell object increase isn't hard to click either.

    ofc: i wish they wouldn't have to click, or coudln't double triple click the well, i wish i had more control on it. but on the other hand i open it and forget - ppl use it if it is close to them (for me i opened it once near melee and noticed that they click on it plenty and alot of dounle clicks, and once opened it near a sp, who clicked it after sw:d - he was actually happy with it - not depending on a healer to heal his sw:d dmg).

    atm on live i don't have lightwell, since the only use of lightwell i had was marking twins conflage spot (lol), but i assume when the patch will come and the changes will be implamented i will take the lightwell

  17. #17

    Re: holy at 80?

    Could they not just make it impossible to use a lightwell charge whilst you have the buff? :-(

    Newfound aoe heals? Divine hymn?

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