Feral Druid changes

[Malfuron]

* Berserk doesn't heal you anymore in bear form but causes your Mangle (Bear) ability to hit up to 3 targets and have no cooldown instead.

--> This will generate an insane amount of threat, seeing how currently my mangle can crit up to 1800, very awesome change (look below)

* Rend and Tear now increases damage done by Maul and Shred on bleeding targets by 4/8/12/16/20%. (up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
* Mangle doesn't increase the damage of Maul and Shred anymore

--> It looks like we're going to HAVE to take R&T now to make up for the loss of bonus damage from the old Mangle. Not sure what I think about this, but we'll still need mangle for the bleeds.

* Protector of the Pack now increases your attack power in Bear and Dire Bear form by 2/4/6%. (Old - increased the bonus attack power by 20/40/60%)

--> Good change, IMO, the bonus AP +60% was very static and now this scales better with your AP.

* Predatory Instincts changed from 5 to 3 points, now While in Cat Form, Bear Form, or Dire Bear Form, increases your damage from melee critical strikes by 3/7/10% (Old - 2/4/6/8/10%) and reduces the damage taken from area of effect attacks by 5/10/15%. (Old - 3/6/9/12/15%)

--> Nice change, less talent points to spend = win in my opinion.

* Savage Fury has been moved from Tier 5 to Tier 2
* Brutal Impact moved from Tier 2 to Tier 5

--> basically to avoid resto druids from nabbing this

* *New Talent* Survival Instincts (Tier 3) - When activated, this ability temporarily grants you 30% of your maximum health for 20 sec while in Bear Form, Cat Form, or Dire Bear Form. After the effect expires, the health is lost. Instant, 5 min cooldown

--> This effect is now separate from the old Berserk, and now is about the same as Last Stand I believe

[Malfuron]

Hang on, wth

* Rend and Tear now increases damage done by Maul and Shred on bleeding targets by 4/8/12/16/20%. (up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
* Mangle doesn't increase the damage of Maul and Shred anymore

Mangle used to give us +30% bonus damage to Shred
This new R&T gives us only +20% bonus damage

[Squirralfire]

Mangle doesn't boost maul shred anymore because they have a built in damage increase from any ability that increases bleed damage, such as mangle. This was done because some of these debuffs will overwrite mangle.

[anyaka21]

Seems like decent changes, however, at least from my understanding (I'm not in beta) the main issue with feral tanking is more about being squishy. The "Last stand" thing is nice, but doesn't address the core issue. I fully admit I could be wrong here though.

[Malfuron]

In the PTR we are no better nor worse than any other tank right now. Ferals are NOT squishy and have ~equal or slightly better/worse mitigation than warriors/paladins.

Oh and yea thanks for clearing up the mangle-shred business, so basically our attack rotation won't change at all in cat DPS

[bfrost7]

we're still bloated though, had a pretty nice build last week now i don't have enough pts to get a good bear build, although i do like the fact that blizz did at least knock down one of many 5pt talents down to 3, and didn't druids already get a laststand like talent or skill way back???

although i took a crack at making a catform build and there's a pretty solid build with this current patch.

[Malfuron]

we're still bloated though, had a pretty nice build last week now i don't have enough pts to get a good bear build, although i do like the fact that blizz did at least knock down one of many 5pt talents down to 3, and didn't druids already get a laststand like talent or skill way back???

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

That's a great tank build actually

The last stand effect you were talking about was part of berserk, but that component of berserk has been replaced, and the +30% health is now seperate

Edit: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

and there's the cat DPS build

[Blasfomy]

This is the build im most likely going to be using, not as an MT build, but as an OT build. The one point out of natural reaction was to put into feral charge, i wasnt sure where else to take it out of, so its not definant.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

Im liking the changes Buffs FTW, though while the berserk change is good, for large AE pulls (8+ mobs) we still might be a little inadequite due to the cooldown, though dont quote me on it, as i obviously havent tested it yet.

[Malfuron]

This is the build im most likely going to be using, not as an MT build, but as an OT build. The one point out of natural reaction was to put into feral charge, i wasnt sure where else to take it out of, so its not definant.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

Im liking the changes Buffs FTW, though while the berserk change is good, for large AE pulls (8+ mobs) we still might be a little inadequite due to the cooldown, though dont quote me on it, as i obviously havent tested it yet.

The good thing is, as you go along with newer gear, you'll come closer and closer to the expertise cap allowing you to take 1/2 points out of Primal Precision

[Nydas]

So with the changes to Mangle, does this mean all we will do in cat is rake, (assuming we want the bonus to shred till we can rip) Shredx4, Savage Roar, Shredx4/5, rip? Or would Shred, Rip, Shredx4/5, Savage roar, Shred4/5, Rip be better?

[Blasfomy]

The good thing is, as you go along with newer gear, you'll come closer and closer to the expertise cap allowing you to take 1/2 points out of Primal Precision

Yeah, thats a good idea, forgot the engregous amounts of expertise on T7.

[Malfuron]

So with the changes to Mangle, does this mean all we will do in cat is rake, (assuming we want the bonus to shred till we can rip) Shredx4, Savage Roar, Shredx4/5, rip? Or would Shred, Rip, Shredx4/5, Savage roar, Shred4/5, Rip be better?

Well as someone mentioned

in build 8962, they changed shred to gain bonus damage from ANY effect that causes an increase to bleed damage (the new mangle and trauma) which means nothing really changes on this part, as we will still receive the +30% damage bonus from mangle, it's just a tooltip change really. Nothing should change, however you should definitely take Rend and Tear because:

A normal 1800 crit of shred will do 2340 with mangle and then 2808 on a bleeding target (rip for example)

As opposed to before: where the shred would have hit for 2574 after R&T.

Consider this a buff then (based on my math, unsure but seems right).

As for the rotation I have no clue, have not played beta yet

[trognar]

we're still bloated though

Having 2 separate specs in one tree is not bloat. It's specialization.

[Koumaru]

Having two separate specs which both include overpriced hybridized talents that bog down that specialized spec, talents that only come in prepackaged combinations of unrelated abilities which force you to take up all or nothing, and pay for all of it if you take it.

That's not specialization, that's bloat.

Yay, my Swipe hits harder, so it's not as much of a joke for sustained AoE threat! And I'm paying at least one extra talent point to ... improve cat stealth.

Yay, Lacerate costs less rage! But here's an extra talent point to make Shred cheaper, too.

Such is the failure of the feral tree design as it moves away from the "hybrid tank/dps role swapping" spec. But doesn't move away from it enough.

[Ilmatar]

Yay, Lacerate costs less rage! But here's an extra talent point to make Shred cheaper, too.

Shredding attacks is absolutely essential to cat dps, so adding it to the lacerate talent doesn't seem to big of a deal. They want to add specialization, not make it so if I decide to tank I would no longer even be viable for cat dps at all, because there would end up another talent that I'd need to take and can't spend the extra on both. I think that ferals really do need this specialization, expecially now that they are making cat dps viable, it shouldn't go to the extent that if you needed to cat dps for a raid you'd want to respec completely. You're supposed to not be able to do one job as well as the other, not be excluded from the other totally.

[Koumaru]

Sure, but with the bloat as it is, you pay too much for hybrid capability to be competitive as a pure tank.

They want to add specialization, not make it so if I decide to tank I would no longer even be viable for cat dps at all

So instead if you decide to tank, you can no longer be competitive for ... tanking. That's not a good tradeoff.

[jur]

The straight up damage builds for raiding have no problem picking up all the talents. Tanking comes into a good amount of bloat, as it is impossible to pick up all the mitigation along with the threat talents. Blizzard really needs to separate out the threat from the damage talents better, while minimizing the total talents for a tanking build. As for pvp, it just looks very disturbing to have to sacrifice so many damage talents for pvp utility and survivability.

[arel00]

For what concerns the Mangle change, it's just a tooltip issue really. Now Shred and Maul get bonus damage from everything that boost bleeding, thus Mangle gives us exactly the same benefits.

As for bear tanking now, I can say what my experience is out of PTR, since I'm not lucky to win beta keys

Currently, the gear I use to tank on PTR is, T6 head, shoulders, chest, gloves, head. Band of the Swift Paw, Waisguard of the Great Beast, Ring of the Stalwart Protector, Band of the Eternal Champion (yes, really), Pepe's Shroud of Pacification, SSO tank neck, Shard of Contempt, Icon of Unyelding Courage (yes, really!). Wildfury Greatstaff and Idol of Terror.
Using stamina/agility gems, along with agi/hit gems on yellow slots. CE head enchant, Scryer dps shoulder enchant, while keeping Nethercleft on legs.

What I did change from Live was back (used Slikk's Shroud of Placation), one ring (VioletEye-tank instead of SoS-dps one), both trinkets (Badge of Tenacity and Shadowmoon Insigna) along with some gemming /enchanting I needed to be crit immune, which I don't need anymore.

Take into account Thick Hide, Protector of the Pack and Natural Reaction, along ofc with SotF. The results were: around 3% more physical mitigation (78% up from 75%, PotP included), a net gain of 12% mitigation against spells due to PotP, hit rating capped (143 atm), 25 expertise for a 6,25% dodge/parry reduction, a stamina increase around 4% (due to the new SotF and gear changes), a dodge gain of around 4% (agility nerf vs regearing and NR).

As far as I've seen and tried, the feeling when tanking is great. Rage isn't a issue anymore for me, while I've been starving for it in many heroics on Live, and threat is simply awesome. Easily critting Mauls for 2,7-3k on bleeding/mangled targets *without* sunders helps alot, and the change to Berserk is pure imbaness, both for AoE tanking and boss tanking. Snap aggro when having Berserk on a big bad boss is something that makes me smile. So far, we've gained strength in something we were good (threat) and in something we were lacking (aoe tank and rage starving.
The fear I had most was about mitigation. Well, no kidding I feel better now. 12% spell damage reduction (ok, you need a full group, but this was about PvE, not 2v2) really makes a difference, and Barkskin in bearform does wonders on casters pulls. As for the physical mitigation, where we all feared the armor nerf well... I lost armorcap, I lost armor on the back, I removed two BIG mitigation items like VE tank ring and BoT, and still went up from 75% to 78%.

Ofc I'm cautious, because as I said many times elsewhere the game is supposed to be balanced around level 80, and that we can't know yet, or, at least not from PTR.
The changes make me positive though, while initially I was already setting my mind into going Balance or rerolling. That is what I can report to you guys. Regarding bear tanking, so far, so good. So don't give up.

[Koumaru]

You didn't achieve 78% physical mitigation. That would require being exactly at the armor cap in addition to Protector of the Pack. Then you would have exactly 78% physical mitigation (which is impossible with available itemization from 3.0.2 onward).

The best you can hope to achieve (wearing PvP gear that still somehow has bonus armor on it) is somewhere just below 75%.

If what you mean is that you show 66% armor mitigation on your paper doll, then in a group you're running with 70.1% physical mitigation after PotP.

Aside from that nitpick, though, I agree. Tanking on the PTR isn't just viable, it's better than in live. And I actually find it fun again.

[arel00]

You didn't achieve 78% physical mitigation. That would require being exactly at the armor cap in addition to Protector of the Pack. Then you would have exactly 78% physical mitigation (which is impossible with available itemization from 3.0.2 onward).

The best you can hope to achieve (wearing PvP gear that still somehow has bonus armor on it) is somewhere just below 75%.

If what you mean is that you show 66% armor mitigation on your paper doll, then in a group you're running with 70.1% physical mitigation after PotP.

Aside from that nitpick, though, I agree. Tanking on the PTR isn't just viable, it's better than in live. And I actually find it fun again.

I'll go back and cry over my spilled math QQ