[Discussion] Paladin 8962 changes

[ShinKosh]

Yea but the buff to Crusade helped with the nerf to 3xstacks of vengence. So now our base damage has been dropped by 5% over juggling around 3 talents?

So they 3 free points, worth Swift Ret?

[PalliesThrowStuff]

I dont mind the damage nerf, but it seems like a nerf aimed at our sustained, and I'd rather they cut more than just JoC's burst. Who knows, maybe JoC was enough, and our PvE DPS is still too high.

We'll find out later.

Also, why should SoComm be our hands-down best DPSer? It's already our hands-down best PvP seal, plenty of OTHER talents are PvP focal, look at the judgement, that's entirely PvP based.

[Zypheit]

We still have no 11 point talent in protection. I wonder if we'll get a new one of if Blessing of Kings is our 11 pointer we can get 10 points earlier.

[Garrum]

# Two-Handed Weapon Specialization now increases your damage with 2H weapons by 1/2/3%. (Down from 2/4/6%)

I guess that whole "1% damage increase for 1 talent point" was only intended for Paladins.

Warriors are getting our old 2% per point, shamans are getting 4% per point. and DKs are getting 2% per point.

I guess this is where it all starts going downhill due to the beta/ptr people whining about the mean ret pallies.

I think a little point reduction is in order for 2 hand spec, considering that DKs are getting 4% for 2 points, and that crusade is now a more powerful talent with bigger benefit for the same point cost and it is easier to get in the tree. Maybe a 1 point talent for 3%, or 2% if they want to keep it in line with the DK version. Or, buff it with an additional bonus, like 1/2/3% damage increase and 2/4/6 expertise, or 1/2/3% damage increase and 0.5/1/1.5% crit.

[ShinKosh]

Also, why should SoComm be our hands-down best DPSer? It's already our hands-down best PvP seal, plenty of OTHER talents are PvP focal, look at the judgement, that's entirely PvP based.

Ok well it we're calling the 1 point talent purely for PvP fair enough. I agree about the JoCom being totally for PvP, not many raid bosses are stunnable that I know of.

[ShinKosh]

Unless there is some ability coming in like another attack (yes, I know there isnt a chance) I have no idea how our DPS is meant to look raid viable when we were already struggling.

[Retrogames]

So for 3 talent points we get 3% damage increase?

How creative...

Why not roll Precision into 2h Weapon Specialization to offset the fact that 1% for 1 point is pathetic. (See signature for example).

[Borg]

what confuses me, though, is why they're dropping them when, at 80, our dps is significantly lower than the people we're supposed to be comparable to, and 80 performance is the goal of the number tweaking in general...

/confuzed

This of course assumes that the classes pumping more dps then us are the benchmark. It could quite simply be that paladins in general are putting out around the figure the devs want people to achieve. This said other classes should see a drop in their dps.

Ghostcrawler has posted recently, saying once again, that all DPS classes/trees will do roughly the same damage.

[Garrum]

Ghostcrawler has posted recently, saying once again, that all DPS classes/trees will do roughly the same damage.

Maybe the right hand is unaware of the left hand's proclamations. After all, what we are seeing is very much contrary to what they are saying: Warriors see a damage INCREASE with a talent point cost reduction, and paladins see a damage DECREASE without a talent point cost reduction, while paladins were already behind the curve at lvl 80. Nerf us and buff them to widen the gap between us. That is completely counter to "everyone will do roughly the same damage".

[Tigercat]

Ok wait wait wait wait, didn't they just finish saying we are going to be able to dps up front with rogues but won't be under 500 dps of a rogue ?

Something that has never once got nerfed in the history of Ret paladins just got nerfed .......

Ok where's my on demand utilities Blizzard.

A paladin asking for on-demand utility?

For some reason, even among the other idiocy that permeates this forum on a daily basis, this comment somehow is even more amusing than the rest.

[Iselian]

A paladin asking for on-demand utility?

For some reason, even among the other idiocy that permeates this forum on a daily basis, this comment somehow is even more amusing than the rest.

It's Ugrateful. He says funny things. You'll learn that quick.

[Moar Pew Pew]

A paladin asking for on-demand utility?

For some reason, even among the other idiocy that permeates this forum on a daily basis, this comment somehow is even more amusing than the rest.

On demand abilites don't have to be OP. They simply make the game more interesting. To me, this stands out as a far stupider comment.

[Borg]

Maybe the right hand is unaware of the left hand's proclamations. After all, what we are seeing is very much contrary to what they are saying: Warriors see a damage INCREASE with a talent point cost reduction, and paladins see a damage DECREASE without a talent point cost reduction, while paladins were already behind the curve at lvl 80. Nerf us and buff them to widen the gap between us. That is completely counter to "everyone will do roughly the same damage".

Maybe so, but it's the only thing we've got.

[Tigercat]

Pink text?

So, you're a blood elf paladin?

That's fine, just don't make a pass at me and you won't be in danger.

[Montoya]

Honestly... I'm comfortable with the changes.

We had one of our major problems with Ret fixed, and that was Mana issues. They are no longer an issue.

Spec into Prot and you can have a 30 seconds HoJ, 20 if you have the 4pc. Good non?

I don't think we have anything to complain about for a 3% decrease on a 3pt Talent that almost nobody was going to pick up anyway. And Fanaticism? Down 5% Crit? How much crit do we get from talents alone? It's not that big of a deal.

[Tigercat]

Unless of course I'm not a paladin!

(Keep it going, this is decent entertainment waiting for beta to come back up)

[Moar Pew Pew]

It has been rather obvious you are not a Paladin since the first time you trolled this forum. It's also obvious you roll a Warrior.

[Tigercat]

Hey, I'm getting kinda hungry. You got any of that stuff you're using to spare?

[Garrum]

Honestly... I'm comfortable with the changes.

We had one of our major problems with Ret fixed, and that was Mana issues. They are no longer an issue.

Spec into Prot and you can have a 30 seconds HoJ, 20 if you have the 4pc. Good non?

I don't think we have anything to complain about for a 3% decrease on a 3pt Talent that almost nobody was going to pick up anyway. And Fanaticism? Down 5% Crit? How much crit do we get from talents alone? It's not that big of a deal.

It matters because our damage was already lagging behind everyone else in PvE BEFORE this nerf. And our 6% two hand spec was a core talent in 99% of ret builds, both PvE and PvP.

[Veliane]

I don't think we have anything to complain about for a 3% decrease on a 3pt Talent that almost nobody was going to pick up anyway.

So 6% more melee damage wasn't worth 3 points when most of out damage comes from melee, not counting this talent falls into a Paladin's sustained damage which we needed the most, over the burst?.
You're smart. :