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  1. #1

    After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    After testing out the Ret Paladin at 80, I clearly cant believe the QQing about Ret being Over Powered.
    Although Ret seem to rock the PvE meters from 70 to 80, the burst damage is no were near make up for the flaws.

    The reason I am bringing this up is because of Damage to Health ratio of Ret at 80 vs 70.

    With the current talents, I will admit the Damage to Health ratio for a lvl 70 is a little extream,
    but similar to Pre BC,,,, that extreme damage dies down once you hit Lvl cap.

    Currently the Ret Paladin lacks Defense in PvP in exchange for high burst Damage, but from what I have seen so far,,, Other Classes pull out just as much Burst Damage as we do, yet they still have better defense.

    Yes if you are a new person to PvP, you may have a problem fighting a Ret Pally, but anybody with skill can easily beat a ret paladin.
    If you sit there and let the ret pally come in range and still do nothing to adjust to the Ret, then you deserve to get beat, but anybody with skill would know to kite the Paladin outside of judgement, and then they are screwed big time.

    We lack Intellect on Gear------=====>>>>
    We can easily go OOM from Attacks and Draining effects. This is a problem.
    I am sorry but Divine Plea is just not going to cut it for PvP. Great for PvE , but not going to work for us in PvP. Judgement of the Wise fits better with a Paladin with a larger Mana pool.
    Give us some type of Baseline Passive Strength===> Intellect
    Not a huge buff to Holy Paladins, cause they dont stack Strength. may have a better effect on protection, but not a big deal.

    Our Attacks can easily be Reduced and Avoided-----=====>>>>>
    This is another problem I have about Ret in PvP.
    Our Attacks are both MELEE & MAGIC. So they can be reduced by effects that are designed to reduce Magic Damage, such as Death Knight's Anti-Magic-Shell,
    But They can also be AVOIDED. Things that reduce chance to be hit, or Increase Dodge, Parry, and sometimes Block, can Avoid our Magic Oriented attack or even reduce the damage of them.
    This is just crazy.

    Also We lack Interrupts, and distant closers. This is crucial for PvP. but we currently lack these. This has been a problem since day one. Repentance had its distant reduced, but what for? It still breaks on damage. And as easy as it is to remove Hand of Freedom, that cant be an excuse for the lack of a distant closer. It is becoming harder and harder to handle the Skilled Players when you continue to give them abilities to counter our Strengths, and exploit our weaknesses, but don't give us the equal treatment.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Also another suggestion--------=======>>>>>

    Please put make Seals into a "Last Til Canceled" type ability. It could even drain Mana equal to the current Mana cost, every 2mins or something. But at the moment, it is a getting a bit annoying.
    Make it last through death like Death Knight's Presences and Warrior's Stances. And give the Seals their own mini-Bar similar to Paladin Auras, and Warrior Stances, because the Seal numbers are getting a bit out of hand on the action bars. Allow them to be casted while mounted also, without dismounting the caster.

    Take Auras off of Global Cool Down,,,,, Give them their own Global Cool Down please.
    Paladins are Cool Now?
    What happen to Kalgan?

  2. #2

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    you fail

    the QQ is about how the talent are too strong and not scaled for the lvl 70 up to 80, making them really strong at 70.

  3. #3

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    from what i can tell (and i've only been on the ptr) but if you can get into judge range, theyre not going to be able to take of hof, essentially infinite mana i just reapply every buff they take off.

    i can get up to 7 magic buffs on me and have stoicism. the chance a mage will remove it is negligible. this was my only problem with 70 solo pvp really and i like all the new magics we've gained (even the .25% mana per sec is nice because it gets removed). and the fact that we dont lose our buffs anymore when we cast freedom is another one. i dont see how you're getting kited if you can manage your magics? maybe you're talking about shammies who remove 2 at a time?

    this being said, world pvp i always mount run on to people and at that point its almost impossible to get me off

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

  4. #4

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    PTR at 70 and BETA at 80 are quite different things, something more ret nerfcallers seem to fail to grasp. I aprove of the op, we have some issues that need to be corrected if we are to be fine at 80.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  5. #5

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    I say why I should spend 3 points in JoTW to "fix" mana problem whilst warriors, rogues, death knight don't spend 1 single talent point for their bar regeneration which is always fixed (and if they spend talent points for it, they only improve their regeneration).
    If I spend 1 talent point in JoTW, i have only 33% chance to get mana back and this is crap.
    If blizz would fix our mana regeneration, they should give us our old JoTW (60% of the damage dealt) and make it costs only 1 points, and not 3 points.




  6. #6

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    I'm wondering.. anyone with skill can kite a paladin you say?

    Don't paladins get a talent that liek increases there speed alot? Don't paladins have a debuf to stop others from going beyond 100% speed? Don't paladins have something like blessing of freedom?

    And even if I'm wrong on those accounts (I may very well be, I'm no paladin expert).. how do you propose a rogue or warrior or enh. sham or deathknight (?) kite you while still doing damage to you?

  7. #7

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Hey Enno, come back when you finish 4th grade and understand sentence structuring, cause half your post is f****** confusing. Also, the stuff you mentioned, such as Blessing of Freedom and Judgement of Justice (to slow you down), WERE mentioned by the first poster, but you were too lazy to read them. Those are removable nowadays by almost every class, i.e : Speelsteal, Dispell, Purge, Tranq Shot (read the patch notes), arcane shot (that's 2 for the hunter alone), Shield slam.

    And no, that skill "that liek increase there speed alot" only increases our speed by 15%, but we're still subjects to slowing effects.

    Also, DK's have range abilities, rogues don't kite, they stunlock, slow you then run away and come back for another throw, Shamans have range abilities, are you retarded?;, Warriors don't need to kite, they don't die.

  8. #8

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr3
    Hey Enno, come back when you finish 4th grade and understand sentence structuring, cause half your post is f****** confusing. Also, the stuff you mentioned, such as Blessing of Freedom and Judgement of Justice (to slow you down), WERE mentioned by the first poster, but you were too lazy to read them. Those are removable nowadays by almost every class, i.e : Speelsteal, Dispell, Purge, Tranq Shot (read the patch notes), arcane shot (that's 2 for the hunter alone), Shield slam.

    And no, that skill "that liek increase there speed alot" only increases our speed by 15%, but we're still subjects to slowing effects.

    Also, DK's have range abilities, rogues don't kite, they stunlock, slow you then run away and come back for another throw, Shamans have range abilities, are you retarded?;, Warriors don't need to kite, they don't die.
    It would seam you need to read the patch notes too buddy. The dispel on Arcane shot was MOVED to Tranquilizing shot, they separated the dispel and damage because people whined long enough about it. As for Shaman having ranged abilities, he was talking about all the others melee specs. How would an Enhancement Shaman go about kill you, Frostshock kite? Also from what I've seen Warriors are getting wrecked by Retribution Paladins.

    Your whining could have been legit IF you had any clue what you were talking about.

  9. #9

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    This thread is just wrong on so many levels it's amazing.

    1. You do not go OOM from just rotating your main abilities.

    2. Yes manadrain abilities are a problem, but manadrains are a problem for every class with mana. That is the whole concept behind manadrains.

    3. Attack that can be avoided? Uh, stack hit rating? Dodge and Parry? Learn to stand behind your target in PVP.

    4. Interrupts and Distance closers? Are you a Ungrateful clone?


    Sigh.

    The Beta isn't over, number and mechanics can still be tweaked. How about we hold off on making threads like these every bloody day until we see a finalized result and then and only then complain about our issues?

    And preferable complain about our issues on a forum where it actually matters.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  10. #10

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Agree with rawberry, how can you even go oom?
    Have just been testing it on PTR couse my retri is still on transfer to beta.
    I mean, its HARD to go even close to oom.
    Interupts you get from the exo glyph and the distance closer is repentence and hammer?

  11. #11

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrateful
    Dude get a life and reroll another class because almost everything you say about the paladin class is either wrong and anything you say about about the game is so far out in left field i wonder if you even play wow at all and if you do it sound like you are a 0/0/0 spec Paladin.
    Yeah, everything I say is wrong... that must be the reason why I have mature, intelligent people agreeing with my 95% of the time?

    Refresh my memory, what was the PPM on Seal of Command again according to you? Ahh yes, 11. *Chuckles*


    Addendum: By the way, you do realise you yourself make it rewarding to mention your name right? If you haven't said anything it wouldn't even have done it again a second time, now you just proved to be an easy mark .

    Friendly advice that you can take to the bank right there...


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  12. #12

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by scandalone
    Agree with rawberry, how can you even go oom?
    Have just been testing it on PTR couse my retri is still on transfer to beta.
    I mean, its HARD to go even close to oom.
    Interupts you get from the exo glyph and the distance closer is repentence and hammer?
    DUDE you do know that the LvL 80 gear has NO INTELLECT right?

    That means you will have less mana then a lvl 70 in full PvP gear.

    Get the picture?
    Paladins are Cool Now?
    What happen to Kalgan?

  13. #13

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Knighthonor
    DUDE you do know that the LvL 80 gear has NO INTELLECT right?

    That means you will have less mana then a lvl 70 in full PvP gear.

    Get the picture?
    Are you on BETA? Rawberry is so i suggest that you stop posting proofless crap. Get in the beta and if you manage to go oom BECAUSE of no intellect on your gear i'll reroll rogue.

    YOU FACE NOT MALCHEZAR ALONE, BUT THE LEGIONS I COMMAND!

  14. #14

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal
    Are you on BETA? Rawberry is so i suggest that you stop posting proofless crap. Get in the beta and if you manage to go oom BECAUSE of no intellect on your gear i'll reroll rogue.

    Thats why I said "after testing out the Ret Paladin at 80".


    From that statement, does it or does it not sound like iam in beta?
    I'll let you figure that part out.
    Paladins are Cool Now?
    What happen to Kalgan?

  15. #15

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Ok, so get to proving that you can actually go oom using your normal rotation.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  16. #16

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Knighthonor
    DUDE you do know that the LvL 80 gear has NO INTELLECT right?

    That means you will have less mana then a lvl 70 in full PvP gear.

    Get the picture?
    Why do people keep comparing the level 80 situation with the situation as it is now? Yes we will have a smaller mana pool, but we will also have a much better regeneration.

    Basutai did some math a while back and figured out that you would gain 10-15 mp5 in a full duration (Judgement, CS, DS, Conscecration).


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  17. #17

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Yeah it should be more. There should be room for a Flash of Light, that would make it ideal.

    I'm trying to find the post and see what values he used, and if the 20% return from JotW was already added back then but I can't seem to find it... Basutai made too many math filled posts unfortunatly.


    But listen, yes, we will have a smaller mana pool but we also have a much, much better regeneration.

    And managing our manapool is one the challenges of playing a Retribution Paladin... I for one would be terribly dissapointed if we could just spam all of our abilities and not be OOM after 8-10 minutes nor would I be too pleased if we were OOM within 1-3 minutes.

    At the moment on the Beta in a standard (Judgement, CS, DS, Consecration and a FoL here and there) rotation my manapool goes down, but slowly. I have about 5 minutes until I'm OOM, and that is without using Seal / Judgement of Wisdom.

    Now you might say, hmm, PVP equals chance for manaburn. Aye, but a Hunters drain can be dispelled rather easily and a Priest has cloth and can often be pressured into stopping his chain manaburning.


    Long story short: It might need some work but it is certainly not the class breaker like some of you are proclaiming.


    Addendum: I currently have 6534 mana on the Beta which is about 600-700 more than from what you will be seeing in all Wrath of the Lich King gear.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  18. #18

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    It would be just plain stupid if retri palas can`t go oom. It`s almost same as rogues running around with burning adrealine.Every class gotta micro managa their resource bar in game.

  19. #19

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Karpalo
    Every class gotta micro managa their resource bar in game.
    Alot of players do not see it that way, they just think Warriors and Rogues have unlimited Rage / Energy and can do with it whatever they please.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  20. #20

    Re: After testing out Ret Paladin at lvl 80, I say we still need buffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    Alot of players do not see it that way, they just think Warriors and Rogues have unlimited Rage / Energy and can do with it whatever they please.
    Gotta have Mana to regen mana.

    Do you have to have Rage to gain rage?

    Do you have to have energy to gain energy?

    Do you have to have Runes to gain runes? (Maybe for Runic Power, but most Runic Power spells suck anyway)
    Paladins are Cool Now?
    What happen to Kalgan?


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