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  1. #21

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by firefly31
    Our class is a utility class. While other classes may have replenishment, ours is the most constant form of mana return to the parties. if you want to hit 4k+ dps, roll a lock. If you like raiding on a shadow priest, then you hopefully understand the role we play when in a raid.
    Not as I read it. All 3 classes appear to be able to keep replenishment buff up for a similar % of the time.

    Bear in mind that many SWP chars will not be doing hugely (if any) more damage with the expansion - no chaining of drums or bloodlusts, potions having longer cooldown, more mana issues, different group/raid buff system will all nerf damage alot - especially the drums/lust change.

    All in all Blizzard aims that we will DPS and Scale almost as well as all other classes. They will need to judge what effect these nerfs will have on overall DPS and then perhaps modify them.

  2. #22

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Hm, really interesting thread. There is a point mentionned here that I don't really understand. Some of you sayed replenishment should lower our dps vs other classes. I thought a bit about it.

    So at lvl 70 replenishment regenrates some 23 mana per second.
    At lvl 80 this should double (mana pool also doubles +-) so I got something around 44 mana per second. This is during 14 sec if my memory is right. (not important although)

    That makes 115mp5 at lvl 70, and 230 mp5 at lvl 80.

    These numbers don't really scale with gear. In addition people with lower manapools (hunters, enh shamies, prot pallies) only get 175 mp5 I guess.

    So on the one side there is some kind of raid utility in there, but it's really small, you can live without it.

    So this isn't really an argument for a DPS nerf...

  3. #23

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic018
    So this isn't really an argument for a DPS nerf...
    Blizzard agree. If you check the post on ret pallies, crawler states that they will not be punishing utility with low DPS.

    We should be within a few % of any other class with equal gear and skill.

    Not on all fights of course, for in the same way I would get top on supremus I would usually be bottom on (a random fight I cannot think of, sorry)

  4. #24

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    I would first like to say that I raid Sunwell in 6/8 T6, I love the Spriest class on LIVE, and I own face in PVP with 4/5 Brutal.

    For those that feel that "Lower DPS is okay since we are a utility class" must be missing something or perhaps I am. Given current wording, I don't believe we return nearly as much mana as we did thus we should be much more competitive on the damage given the reduction is our utility. (Perhaps the Vampiric Touch Healing is a significant factor in our "utility.")

    -(Live) Vampiric Touch Rank 3 - Causes 650 Shadow damage over 15 sec to your target and causes all party members to gain mana equal to 5% of any Shadow spell damage you deal.
    -(Beta) Vampiric Touch Rank 5 - Causes 850 Shadow damage over 15 sec to your target and causes up to 10 party or raid members to gain 0.25% of their maximum mana per second when you deal damage from Mind Blast.


    Normally Mind Blast is an 8 second cooldown, but fully talented it's a 5.5 CD. I must admit I have not being paying too close of attention to level 80 beta toons, but I am going to assume casters have approximately 20k mana. So 20,000 * .0025 = 50 Mana every ~7.0 Seconds (5.5 CD + 1.5 Cast {No Haste})

    In comparison Blessing Of Wisdom Rank 9 - Places a Blessing on the friendly target, restoring 91 mana every 5 seconds for 10 min. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.

    Correct me if I misunderstood VT, otherwise we really are getting penalized on damage based upon VE Healing?

  5. #25

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by STM127

    -(Beta) Vampiric Touch Rank 5 - Causes 850 Shadow damage over 15 sec to your target and causes up to 10 party or raid members to gain 0.25% of their maximum mana per second when you deal damage from Mind Blast.


    Normally Mind Blast is an 8 second cooldown, but fully talented it's a 5.5 CD. I must admit I have not being paying too close of attention to level 80 beta toons, but I am going to assume casters have approximately 20k mana. So 20,000 * .0025 = 50 Mana every ~7.0 Seconds (5.5 CD + 1.5 Cast {No Haste})
    Fail at math ;-)

    10 party or raid members to gain 0.25% of their maximum mana per second which is part of a 15 second buff I believe. So when you cast MB they get replenishment for 10-15 secs (not sure) and then when you cast is again they either get the duration reset OR someone else gets an iteration of the buff.

    so at 20,000max mana -> 50 mana every second -> 250 Mp5

    However!


    For those that feel that "Lower DPS is okay since we are a utility class" must be missing something or perhaps I am

    They are. Fear not

  6. #26

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by jhemfl
    I used to play a Sunwell Raiding Shadow Priest. We've all had our QQ's due to our bad scaling and low dps and whatnot so I did something about it. I leveled a Mage to make my main in WotLK. I used to raid as a Rogue right when TBC came out, then I took a break and came back as a Shadow Priest. I guess I miss the pure dps aspect of raiding which is why I chose Mage. I know Mages might not be top dps or whatever, but that's another topic. I really liked my Shadow Priest but their low dps (but excellent utility) just didn't suit me.

    I started seeing all these posts the past few weeks about how Shadow Priests damage has substantially increased which gave me hope that maybe I will go back to raiding Shadow if I can keep up (not be on top, but not be 15th either) with the big dogs. Then I read this:

    While Dispersion might not drastically increase your raid damage, not all talents are designed as such. We experimented with giving it some added DPS to it, but we had to take it off because the Shadow Priest was exceeding our bench mark for DPS. It was also strange gameplay (what if you got hit while it was channeling? You'd feel really bad. Also its supposed to be your defense mechanism in PvP, but yet now you want to use it for DPS



    They stated that there will not be any op new tailor made sets like frosen set was... Instead we got Flying carpet.


    So apparently Blizzard has a specific spot they want Shadow Priests on the dps scale. Which is cool but Shadow Priests always had an issue with gear scaling. Meaning that if they put Shadow Priests lower than Mages, Locks, Hunters, Warriors now...Just think of how bad it MIGHT be when we're in the higher end game content (remember Shadow Priests were near top dps up until about late t5 content mainly due to The FSW set, who knows if another set like this will become available). Seems like they're digging a hole for themselves by setting a place they want Spriest dps at, because in the long run they are going to have to perfectly tweak Spriest gear to scale them properly. This has me leaning back towards maining my Mage for Wrath.

    I was just wondering what other people thought about this 'benchmark'.

    (Again, I'm not saying a utility class should be topping the charts or anything. Also, the gear scaling speculation I had about Wotlk is indeed only a speculation.)

  7. #27

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    As of the latest patch we are bottem of dmg meter again

  8. #28

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by paracelsus
    Uhm ... what? SWP gear is around blue 78 gear for itemization. Epic 80 clears SWP by a significant margin.
    There is a post on elitist jerks that shows the ilvl of SWP gear is equivalent to lvl 82 blues. Really CBF trying to find it but it's definitely there.

  9. #29

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    There is a post on elitist jerks that shows the ilvl of SWP gear is equivalent to lvl 82 blues. Really CBF trying to find it but it's definitely there.
    Either way I think a huge number of endgame raiders will start raiding at 80 in mainly sunwell gear.

  10. #30
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    A bunch of friends who got KJ on farm for a while, tagged Naxx 10man and what I got told is there were nice upgrades in Naxx, but Sunwell gear was absolutely fine to do 10man Naxxramas in.

    Basicly they steamrolled it

  11. #31

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Basicly they steamrolled it
    I find that disappointing in a way. I would like at least the later bosses of the first raid to be difficult.

    Maybe they'll tune it a bit harder for release?

  12. #32
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    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntrails
    I find that disappointing in a way. I would like at least the later bosses of the first raid to be difficult.

    Maybe they'll tune it a bit harder for release?
    It's surposed to be a entry level dungeon. If people that got KJ on farm can't steamroll it they suck.

    So it's not really disappointing, it's only a 10man dungeon anyway -- 10mans are for casuals. You won't ever see a 10man be as challenging as a 25man dungeon.

  13. #33

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    It's surposed to be a entry level dungeon. If people that got KJ on farm can't steamroll it they suck.

    So it's not really disappointing, it's only a 10man dungeon anyway -- 10mans are for casuals. You won't ever see a 10man be as challenging as a 25man dungeon.
    Did they steamroll kara back in the day? The guys who were in full T3? (Yes, I suck, I started june last year, and I stopped playing in june this so never made it to sunwell.)

  14. #34

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntrails
    Did they steamroll kara back in the day? The guys who were in full T3? (Yes, I suck, I started june last year, and I stopped playing in june this so never made it to sunwell.)
    There were guilds who cleared Illidan in mostly T3 and the MT was using Thunderfury... so yeah they did.

  15. #35

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    There were guilds who cleared Illidan in mostly T3 and the MT was using Thunderfury... so yeah they did.
    for the 100000000th time, they didn't kill illidan in t3

    its called putting it on for a SS
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  16. #36

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    So it's not really disappointing, it's only a 10man dungeon anyway -- 10mans are for casuals. You won't ever see a 10man be as challenging as a 25man dungeon.
    10 Mans for casuals? , allow me to laugh., Syncronizing and cooardinating 25 people instead of 10 would be harder yes ofc.
    Im quoting Blizz trough mmo-champion

    "The raid game will ramp up over time. There will be many extremely difficult encounters for people to face. But the early bosses in Naxx are intended to be beatable very early on.
    The 10's will get hard too. It's not a casual/hardcore thing. It's more about ramping difficulty and progression”




  17. #37

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    To answer the Topic starter, http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/LatestReport
    This is the latest beta build and show where Spriests stand atm (compeared to other casters).

  18. #38

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomwalker
    To answer the Topic starter, http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/LatestReport
    This is the latest beta build and show where Spriests stand atm (compeared to other casters).
    Hardly smthing to look forward to

  19. #39

    Re: Benchmark for Spriest dps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chell82
    Hardly smthing to look forward to
    See front page. They are not even close to finishing the balance pass yet.

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