1. #1

    "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Here is the original post

    PvE shadow priest says: "I suggest that Imp. Power Word Shield is switched with Imp. Inner Fire. This will free up PvE shadow priest a bit to help with a bit of a bloated tree. With having to pick up imp fade and the replacement to shadow resilience (blanking on the name atm) it becomes difficult to pick up imp ve and imp shadow form and all our dps talents. All other specs already go deep enough into disc that this should only really affect PvE shadow priest. It won't add any additional damage but will allow for a bit more flexability in the build."

    Our class designer says in reply and I quote "Finally, something I can work with! I'll do this tomorrow morning =)"

    Now first off what irritated me the most was that it was coming from a shadow PvE priest build and it was asking for a change in a tree it doesnt even go very far into.

    And correct me if im wrong but didnt inner fire used to be tier 4? Then they switched it with absolution (boo) and it went to tier 3 so now a 51 point shadow priest COULD get it. And now they want to switch it again to tier 2 to get it even closer so they can put points in what? a discipline talent that can increase your sellpower by a set number thats not even that high.

    I mean I wish (and all holy priests agree) Divine spirit/Imp. spirit was switched with absolution so I could have Guardian spirit and DI but apparently getting 10 people to agree with you in a row is the key to making a decision quickly. I mean yes I understand, its hard to find compromise between so many specs of priest builds but cmon PvE shadow priest is there even really such a thing cause I figure your a shadow priest to begin with so you can PvP and claiming that your tree is "so bloated" you want to step in and change other priests trees is just disrespectful. Iv looked at PvE shadow specs and the only reason you would want to switch the 2 talents is so you dont have waste points to get to imp. mana burn, god forbid you dont get to spend 54-57 points in shadow is ludicrous.

    My point is (and I rarely use caps lock) KEEP IT IN YOUR OWN TREE!


  2. #2

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by Glacialforce
    Here is the original post

    PvE shadow priest says: "I suggest that Imp. Power Word Shield is switched with Imp. Inner Fire. This will free up PvE shadow priest a bit to help with a bit of a bloated tree. With having to pick up imp fade and the replacement to shadow resilience (blanking on the name atm) it becomes difficult to pick up imp ve and imp shadow form and all our dps talents. All other specs already go deep enough into disc that this should only really affect PvE shadow priest. It won't add any additional damage but will allow for a bit more flexability in the build."

    Our class designer says in reply and I quote "Finally, something I can work with! I'll do this tomorrow morning =)"

    Now first off what irritated me the most was that it was coming from a shadow PvE priest build and it was asking for a change in a tree it doesnt even go very far into.

    And correct me if im wrong but didnt inner fire used to be tier 4? Then they switched it with absolution (boo) and it went to tier 3 so now a 51 point shadow priest COULD get it. And now they want to switch it again to tier 2 to get it even closer so they can put points in what? a discipline talent that can increase your sellpower by a set number thats not even that high.

    I mean I wish (and all holy priests agree) Divine spirit/Imp. spirit was switched with absolution so I could have Guardian spirit and DI but apparently getting 10 people to agree with you in a row is the key to making a decision quickly. I mean yes I understand, its hard to find compromise between so many specs of priest builds but cmon PvE shadow priest is there even really such a thing cause I figure your a shadow priest to begin with so you can PvP and claiming that your tree is "so bloated" you want to step in and change other priests trees is just disrespectful. Iv looked at PvE shadow specs and the only reason you would want to switch the 2 talents is so you dont have waste points to get to imp. mana burn, god forbid you dont get to spend 54-57 points in shadow is ludicrous.

    My point is (and I rarely use caps lock) KEEP IT IN YOUR OWN TREE!

    You're not agreeing with yourself here.. :P

    It seems to me more like you're just upset cause you won't get Divine spirit and Imp. Divine spirit

    Anyways.. improved inner fire was always accessible by 51 point shadowpriest or holy priests, though you'd have to sacrifice more talents in the 51 point tree than you'd have to with it at tier 3 or 2.. Divine spirit on the other hand, never was. It would also make sense to move the imp shield talent deeper since PW:S seems to become more and more an iconic ability of the disc priest given all the improvements to it deeper in the tree.

    Additionally, it seems more like the blue post said he'd be working on it and see how it turns out, rather than saying, "yes this change will definitely happen".

    On the other hand, though it is true that with the latest patches the shadow tree has begun to suffer from a lack of useless talents, it is also true like you said that "All the talents in my main tree has become so good" is hardly an excuse to make other talents easier to obtain so one can get all the "good" talents without sacrificing something else.

    On that note though, it is true that some talents are optional while others are more or less mandatory to fulfill a class role in a given situation, and if the choice end up between a "mandatory" and a optional talent, very few would ever go for the optional one (in this case inner fire). As you said imp inner fire isn't all that great which is exactly why moving it to a spot were you can choose between it and other optional talents would be a good move.

  3. #3

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    The argument about DS has been going on for ages... here is what priests need to get over... DS isn't going to be trainable, it's going to stay a 21 point talent, the decision about DS has been made by Blizzard and all the comments in the world isn't going to change their decision.

    You can disagree with that stance all you like, i've yet to see a compelling argument why it SHOULD be made available. I agree with Blizzard in that talent trees should force people to make choices, not pander to allowing players to pick up everything that is deseriable for 0 cost. If you want DS and really feel it's that great, you can forgo your 51 point talent and pick it up... that's the choice that the talent trees ask of you.

    If DS becomes grossly under represented by the priest community expect blizzard to think about changes then.

  4. #4

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Good change. Tier 2 was a complete points sink anyway.


  5. #5

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    The argument about DS has been going on for ages... here is what priests need to get over... DS isn't going to be trainable, it's going to stay a 21 point talent, the decision about DS has been made by Blizzard and all the comments in the world isn't going to change their decision.

    You can disagree with that stance all you like, i've yet to see a compelling argument why it SHOULD be made available. I agree with Blizzard in that talent trees should force people to make choices, not pander to allowing players to pick up everything that is deseriable for 0 cost. If you want DS and really feel it's that great, you can forgo your 51 point talent and pick it up... that's the choice that the talent trees ask of you.

    If DS becomes grossly under represented by the priest community expect blizzard to think about changes then.
    I said I wish they would, not that they should give 51holy point users DS.

    The point of this post was a PvE shadow priest complaining that he would rather put points in a tree for imp. inner fire then imp. shield and because he and 10 other people say "Good idea" and now it gets attention for a possible switch. I mean it does screw with the build of a deep disc priest which shouldnt happen because the people complaining dont even put 20 points in that part of the tree, they have shadowform for a reason.

    And Tier 2 was in no way a complete point sink, reduced threat and imp fort was what you picked if you were going holy/dis. Dis/holy would probably make the same call depending on how much you planned to use PW:Shield. In WotLK it looks like priests will be in more need of the threat reduction factor since we will be penalized for using lesser rank heals.

    I mean why imp fire? Why not toss in absolution instead?

  6. #6

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by Glacialforce
    And Tier 2 was in no way a complete point sink, reduced threat and imp fort was what you picked if you were going holy/dis. Dis/holy would probably make the same call depending on how much you planned to use PW:Shield. In WotLK it looks like priests will be in more need of the threat reduction factor since we will be penalized for using lesser rank heals.

    I mean why imp fire? Why not toss in absolution instead?
    If what is you say here is true then the change cause absolutely no difference for the disc and holy priests, since you with silent resolve and imp. fort. get all the way to tier 3, and once there it doesn't really matter whether you use points in tier 2 or tier 3. As for absolution which currently is in tier 4, if this switched places with imp. shield you wouldn't be able to reach imp shield at tier 3 and it would possibly pose a bigger change to people's builds. That being said, I think absolution is great for pvp (which is what I mostly spend my time doing) so I would by no means dislike it's transfer to tier 2.

  7. #7

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by Glacialforce
    I said I wish they would, not that they should give 51holy point users DS.

    The point of this post was a PvE shadow priest complaining that he would rather put points in a tree for imp. inner fire then imp. shield and because he and 10 other people say "Good idea" and now it gets attention for a possible switch. I mean it does screw with the build of a deep disc priest which shouldnt happen because the people complaining dont even put 20 points in that part of the tree, they have shadowform for a reason.

    And Tier 2 was in no way a complete point sink, reduced threat and imp fort was what you picked if you were going holy/dis. Dis/holy would probably make the same call depending on how much you planned to use PW:Shield. In WotLK it looks like priests will be in more need of the threat reduction factor since we will be penalized for using lesser rank heals.

    I mean why imp fire? Why not toss in absolution instead?
    How exactly does it screw with a deep disc priest? Its not like it's difficult for him to get imp PW:S if he is investing a lot of points in disc if it's further down in the tree. There are plenty of options to spend points early in the tree if you want to avoid imp inner fire but i'd estimate this would be desirable for most disc priests in any case.

    Not exaclty sure what the problem is other than it smacks of... you won't listen to me but you'll listen to this guy... I think if they do make the change it's being pretty generous to spriests because it will free up more points for us to use in the shadow tree.

  8. #8

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    It's pointless. A shadow priest shouldn't sweat it all that much. I'd rather take 5/5 in the Tier 1 talents and skip the Tier 2 talents all together considering Imp Fort isn't necessary when you bring holy/disc priests anyways. This is from a purely PvE perspective. Chances are if you get hit in a raid you're probably getting 1 shot as a priest, waste of an argument in my opinion.

  9. #9

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Never have threat problems. Never had done.

    Buffed stam is nice, but like IDS, only one priest in the raid needs to have it. Everything else is just worthless, from a PvE perspective. Filler leading up to Meditation and Inner Focus.

  10. #10

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by noz3r0
    It's pointless. A shadow priest shouldn't sweat it all that much. I'd rather take 5/5 in the Tier 1 talents and skip the Tier 2 talents all together considering Imp Fort isn't necessary when you bring holy/disc priests anyways. This is from a purely PvE perspective. Chances are if you get hit in a raid you're probably getting 1 shot as a priest, waste of an argument in my opinion.
    I can only assume this refers to the armor portion of the inner fire buff... please note that inner fire also provides a spellpower buff and improving this aspect of the buff is what interests priests (be it disc/holy/shadow).

    With that in mind, i'd rather take 3 points in imp inner fire over imp PW:S which probably has a negligible effect on raiding... that's not to say that imp inner fire is going to be a massive upgrade either but when it boils down to 15% more PW:S damage absorption or an extra 54 spellpower I know which i'd prefer.

    I'd also like to point out that not taking Imp Fort is lazy on your part, may not be so much of an issue in WotLK considering the prayer will buff the entirety of the raid. However having imp fort for any battle rez from all your priests is more useful than you think and spriests should be the ones putting buffs on to allow the healers to continue healing and conserving their mana pool. For 2 points I can't see how 2 points in unbreakable will is any better (assuming you will take 5/5 twin disciplines to get to T2). Granted the trees are there for people to customise and i'll also concede that arguing where to spend points early in the disc tree is nothing short of arguing semantics but my point still remains that switching Imp Inner fire with Imp PW:S has no negative effect on disc priests and allows Spriests to spend an additional 3 points in the shadow tree... i think the change is rather generous and don't understand the complaints.

  11. #11

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeklus
    Good change. Tier 2 was a complete points sink anyway.

    This...

    I seriously cant see how this change anything for any1 (beside helping pve shadow). Maybe for a pvp shadow... But then again it shouldent if you place your points correct.


    And the remark from the blue... Tbh, he said "finaly something to work with"... = priests havent done anything but whine and call for nerfs instead of making serious suggestions...

    My 2c

    (im disc pvp atm btw)
    Everyone thinks their world is falling.. If they had a solid sense of perspective, they probably wouldn't be gamers.

  12. #12

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    i find this a good change, because for discipline you needed silent resolve and improved pw:shield, both mandatory talents, now you can take improved pw:fortitude, i know i will.

    Although, now we face another issue, i'm not sure i'm at work and dont have mozilla to view talent builds, but isnt improved pw:shield at same height as meditation and inner focus? again three mandatory talents on one tier, i guess i'd have to go with meditation first, and hope i can fill points up in improved pw:shield for lvl 70, i know we are meant to look forward to lvl 80, to see how things go, but i'd like to do some karazhan runs with discipline, and i hope i will get to be able to make a good build at 70 aswell, not leaving out talents that might be usefull.

  13. #13

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    I'm not "happy" with the change but i'll deal..I wanted inner fire on tier 2 for a very long time...but I wanted Imp PWS there as well. As it stands, to get past tier 2, I need to take 2 points in Improved fort, which is a spell I rarely cast in a PVE Raid. Sure, it would be nice if I had to cover for some reason, but the other priests spec into that. If improved inner fire came to tier 2, I would spend 3 in that and 3 in bubble, and be extremely happy with the tree because I'd free up two talent points to be put somewhere else...as it stands, I still waste two talents with this new change.

    Since we're making requests, lets put meditation down on tier 2 and improved fort on tier 3. People will still spec for it, and shadow priests will have it even easier! /sigh (but in reality, that may not be such a bad idea...lol)

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    The is only one issue I have with this potential change, and that is that inner fire won't recieve spellpower until after lvl 70 which means the spell is more or less useless overall. Yes it might be ok for pvp, but as a pve spell its not worth taking up through the tree - and a positive point its not really usefull to go down the tree at all for pve yet
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  15. #15

    Re: "Imp. Power Word Shield switched with Imp. Inner Fire"

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeklus
    Never have threat problems. Never had done.

    Buffed stam is nice, but like IDS, only one priest in the raid needs to have it. Everything else is just worthless, from a PvE perspective. Filler leading up to Meditation and Inner Focus.
    Lawl I go afk to sometimes during my heroic MGT run as well, unless of course im with a pally tank.

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