1. #1

    An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    I get the sense that they aren't willing to change the 51 shadow talent
    but anyways,

    Vampiric Link (or whatever you might want to call it)

    Gives a buff to a player which heals him for x% of the amount of damage that the Priest deals.
    This buff can only be used on a single target.

    and then make Dispersion a 31/41 talent

    It's a single target version of VE, and you would be able to cast it on the MT for raids

    I think this would be good for many reasons

    First, this will be in line with the whole shadow vampiric theme.
    Second, it will have uses in both PvE, PvP.
    Third, this will give us another Raid utility that SPs desperately need.( it's basically a heal, so it isn't a new raid ability,and won't go against the whole homogeneity concept, yet it's a unique ability for SPs)

    what do you think?

  2. #2

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    Quote Originally Posted by lordcalvin
    what do you think?


    scnr.

  3. #3

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    We would become too essential and too unique.

    Anything that takes pressure off main tank healers is awesome. Giving that utility to a SP would make every raid want one to buff the main tank. It would be like having an extra set of rolling lifebloom on them. Too good. I think VE is going to have to be nerfed anyway, depending on how our damage scales compared to health pools*.


    *Explanation:

    If players health pools increase by, lets say, 50% but our DPS is increasing by well over 100% (1200 is pretty good DPS in t4-t5 epics and 2500dps is looking eminently possible in lower end epics at 80) then the effective 'power level' of VE is disproportionate. Therefore I wonder if blizz have analysed (sp?) this yet and what they will decide when they do.

    Will casters have 15-18K health to raid in wotlk? (I think back in early kara I had about 7.5-8k health, but am unsure)

  4. #4

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    Ntrails:

    I am in beta right now, I made a priest premade with the full arena dps gear. With fort they have about 16k life. I think is pretty low since right now I am sitting at 12k in s4 pvp arena gear.

    And I think the best 51 point talent would be dispersion at what it was before. give me mana and life. All it does now is let me die with more mana.



  5. #5

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Harima
    Ntrails:

    I am in beta right now, I made a priest premade with the full arena dps gear. With fort they have about 16k life. I think is pretty low since right now I am sitting at 12k in s4 pvp arena gear.
    With full PvP gear you have 16k? Jeez, then I think we can expect players raiding to be around 12k at best which means VE has gained some significant power - if it is not nerfed.



  6. #6

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntrails
    We would become too essential and too unique.
    As a shadow priest I would love having something like that, but I'm afraid I have to agree with Ntrails. Nice idea though!

  7. #7

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    I was working on an argument for Vampiric Link,

    But first I would have to disagree with you on VE.

    VE is a healing skill, so you'd have to compare it to the scaling of other healing skills, not the health pool.

    currently, heals increase by a factor of 153% of spell power.
    (http://www.resto4life.com/2008/09/01...-coefficients/)
    VE (if you have Imp VE) gets 5*25% = 125%.

    So I don't think VE would be OP considering it doesn't scale as well as other heals.

    If you are going to nerf VE because it scales better than health pools, then you would have to nerf all heals too.

    I think VE is fine in its current state.
    It has its drawbacks, such as over healing, additional threat and having no control over who you heal.
    Vampiric Link would be able to address some of these drawbacks.

    PS. I'm still trying to find what unique abilities balance druids, elemental shamans, retribution paladins get, and compare it to the uniqueness of Vampiric Link, because I don't think VL would make us any more essential than other classes.



  8. #8

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    Quote Originally Posted by lordcalvin
    I was working on an argument for Vampiric Link,

    But first I would have to disagree with you on VE.

    VE is a healing skill, so you'd have to compare it to the scaling of other healing skills, not the health pool.

    currently, heals increase by a factor of 153% of spell power.
    (http://www.resto4life.com/2008/09/01...-coefficients/)
    VE (if you have Imp VE) gets 5*25% = 125%.

    So I don't think VE would be OP considering it doesn't scale as well as other heals.

    If you are going to nerf VE because it scales better than health pools, then you would have to nerf all heals too.
    Actually I disagree entirely. Vampiric embrace is a shadow priest skill of a given effectiveness. It effectiveness has increased significantly. That calculation is done irrespective of other classes healing abilities since it is Unique as a passive group heal.

    Also your mathematics on VE make no sense. 5*25% is indeed 125% but what has that got to do with scaling? VE Scales with our DPS not with anything else. To appropriately give it such a % from spell power you would have to work out the DPS increase given by 1 spell power, and then multiply THAT by 1.25 as you derived.

    However, I was simplyfying by pointing out that if Our DPS was increasing by significantly more than players health pools then the potential power of VE will have increased by the same margin. That is a blizzard decision.

    Vampiric link: Giving us the opportunity to significantly link our DPS with a single target heal would require blizzard to nerf our DPS, or give an equivalent to another class, and either way why would any raid not want multiple DPSing healers on a MT?

  9. #9

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    Thinking about it why wouldn't you have the shadow priests in the main tank group now? I mean raid buffs make group synergy pointless, VT is 10 target raid wide also. What benefits do we get from the caster group now? I'm tempted to say 'put me in the tank group for healing please'. This sorta makes a main tank heal fairly pointless.
    Remember that shaman mana tide/healing stream/water totems are not raid wide As far as I recall.

    But in general, as things stand, 2-3 SPs in MT/OT group is better than any other class now as far as I can tell, and removes the need for possibly 1 healer on those two tanks.

  10. #10

    Re: An Idea for a new 51 shadow talent

    I had this idea of my own...

    How about moving dispersion from 51 to somewhere right after imp shadow form(where psychic horror is atm), so it requires that aswell - as both those talents will obviously be needed for PvP. And for the 51 talent id like a "Whenever pain deals damage theres a x% chance to finnish the cooldown on Mind Blast". I think theres some room for balancing as you can set the % chance...

    A talent like this would be pretty interesting for pvp(pain on several targets etc) and it could also provide a nice addition to PvE as Mind Blast procs replenishment with VE and MB crits procs Spirit Tap. It would definetely require some balancing but it always annoyed how locks and mages can go nonstop bonkers with shadow- and frostbolts


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