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  1. #1

    Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    First off, i cant post on the wow-europe forums (banned) so im posting here, if you think this is nice to suggest on official forums, feel free to post it

    * Disc is the utility tree, yet the 21 pointer gives no utility, its an out of place looking buff, has no place for a specific stat buff this deep in the tree while other stat buffs are vendor skills. Please remove Divine spirit and put something else in its place, make DS trainer bought. maybe a buffed (omg monkey balls it sucks so bad!) version of Hymn of Hope.

    * Grace is a nice talent with a good functionality, but it lasts 8 seconds only, this promotes spamhealing while at the same time Rapture does not grant ANY mana for overheals.
    Both spells should be addressed for viability, Grace should last 15 seconds or 18 seconds and rapture should grant at least SOME mana for overheals, how about 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1.0% total mana for overheals instead of the 2.5% normally.

    * Borrowed Time looks ok, the PW:S half is so-so at first glance, and stays that way after you fiddle around with it. The spell haste part looks pretty great at first glance, but this also melts away like yellow snow once you try it. What i mean is: it gives 25% haste max, which -granted- , is alot. This buff only lasts for 5 seconds (maybe it starts on 6 secs, but i never saw this on my priest so i can not verify) AND it only grants this haste to one spell, AAAAND this haste buff is consumed by any spell cast, instant ones like renew, abolish disease etc.
    My suggestion here would be to either make the haste buff last for as long as Clearcasting, the other (mildly helpful) option would be to keep this duration, but have it affect any and all spells and GCD for the duration. making it more of a panic button talent functionality. The second option would again be a 'promote heal spam' ability, with the current grace we really really dont need another, in its current incarnation its not worth taking, with tweaking it can be a lifesaver when its needed, instead of within a 5 second window.

    * Power Word: Shield - this spell creates problems of its own, as someone said on the official beta forums, there are 18 talent points (Borrowed Time/Renewed Hope/Rapture/Reflective Shield/Imp. PW:S concerning this spell, and it STILL gives a nonremoveable debuff lasting 15 seconds to the target!

    <insert 'this is madness' joke, but instead of a joke, its not>

    i really dont know what to say about PW:S.. the cooldown of 4 seconds has never been a problem, weakened soul has always been a problem, though by removing weakened soul or shortening its duration there presents the problem of warrior and druid tank rage generation through absorbtion.

    if the rage generation issue is addressed, and by GOD it should be addressed, we now have divine aegis which could proc for a truckload of absorbtion and the trusty PW:S absorbing more and more damage, the only reason i dont have divine aegis is because of rage starvation. unless there has been a change to this being a non-issue when i didnt look in which case i take it all back.

    * there could be a very simple solution to PW:S's overwhelming presence in the disc tree, the drag Weakened soul puts on it all and the frustration resulting in it, and the whining and cries resulting in that..

    * Aspiration in the disc tree next to rapture and below pain suppression, could be given a 20/40% duration reduction on weakened soul, maybe even more if it turns out to be balanced. would eliminate alot of friction in the hate/love relationship we have with this spell.


    thanks for reading, please leave feedback.

  2. #2

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Divine spirit is fine as a 21 point talent...I'd say instead of three points, make it one point for the same effect, but I can live either way.

    Grace I agree should last longer. 15 seconds would work for me.

    Borrowed time is excellent, no matter how you cut it. I love it. Power Word Shield should work as the Glyph does, but instead of healing 20% of the damage absorbed, 1 rage, 1% mana should be returned every time it absorbs damage.

    Aspiration I don't think should shorten weaken soul...we've got a talent right on the other side to increase crit while weakened soul is up, so again, I'm happy with the weaken soul mechanic.

    My requests/suggestions are as follows:

    get Imp P.W.S. and Inner fire onto the same tier so I can stop blowing points in Improved Fort. Swapping Inner fire and Silent resolve would easily do this, but they've already swapped PWS and inner fire, which is even worse than before. I can live with one point in imp inner fire, not one point in Imp PWS.

    PWS to be taken off the global cooldown. I think that it would be an amazing change that would allow us to bubble and instantly start a heal on a target, which would be a great benefit for those "oh Sh!t" moments.

    Other than that, I am happy with the Disc tree. Oh, and put my 5% int back onto elightenment.

  3. #3

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mora
    Divine spirit is fine as a 21 point talent...I'd say instead of three points, make it one point for the same effect, but I can live either way.

    Grace I agree should last longer. 15 seconds would work for me.

    Borrowed time is excellent, no matter how you cut it. I love it. Power Word Shield should work as the Glyph does, but instead of healing 20% of the damage absorbed, 1 rage, 1% mana should be returned every time it absorbs damage.

    Aspiration I don't think should shorten weaken soul...we've got a talent right on the other side to increase crit while weakened soul is up, so again, I'm happy with the weaken soul mechanic.

    My requests/suggestions are as follows:

    PWS to be taken off the global cooldown. I think that it would be an amazing change that would allow us to bubble and instantly start a heal on a target, which would be a great benefit for those "oh Sh!t" moments.

    Other than that, I am happy with the Disc tree. Oh, and put my 5% int back onto elightenment.
    - look at all the disc 1 pointers, then tell me DS is fine as stat buff, in the disc tree as 21 pointer..
    - you love Borrowed time (click it, not same spell, in case you didnt get my point earlier) you say, you mean to say you always cast a spell within 5 seconds of PW:S? like shielding a tank before a pull then regen mana back to full? oh wait..

    - again, 18 points, and PW:S gives a debuff.. which prevents using it again! its gotta be a horrendous joke that they've even built 2 talent points around it.. i just cant get my head around that, the debuff was to prevent spamming, and now they see it as utility?!

    you say you want int back in enlightenment? have you checked Mental strength lately? but maybe seeing as you think the shield mechanic is fine and working as intended with 18 points and a debuff, you think they should smear all such stat buffs around too? while they are at it why not give twin disciplines some spirit and intellect too, makes sense!

    yes, that was sarcastic, and no i dont suffer idiots. i was not trying to be friendly

  4. #4

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Well I guess that's the difference between us then..I was trying to be nice.

    Yes, I stand by divine spirit being fine as it stands, but it would be nice if instead of 3 points, 1 point got us all of the same bonuses. You don't see people QQ-ing about kings being a talented buff, do you? No, because while it's not essential, it's pretty damn nice. 80 spirit is nice, but far from essential.

    Borrowed time lasting 5/6 seconds isn't worth worrying about. You throw a bubble, you heal, it's what healers ALREADY DO. I personally am not going to be throwing a bubble on the tank on every cooldown, BECAUSE of rage starvation potential. You throw the bubble when they take a hit, then you heal up the damage that they have taken. Simple concept that's already currently in use.

    the PWS debuff is the prevent spamming of it, you said it yourself. There's not big problem with the weakened soul effect, it's been in game forever and we've worked with it as it is for a very long time.

    Yeah, I would like Int back into elightenment. Have you looked at mental strength lately? it was changed to 15% int in the early days of Beta, and that gave disc priests a total of 20% Int bonus. Never said a word about twin disciplines, you're just throwing around stupid statements trying to start an argument at that point.

  5. #5

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    my twin disciplines statement was making a point ofcourse.

    enlightenment doesnt have int anymore, it now has 5% haste, because the int has gone to mental strength.

    if you slap a PW:S on your tank and you cast that nice greater heal oh so speedily, what if that (highest rank!) crit and you get a nice 3-4k shield on the tank, theres your rage starvation right there cos of divine aegis. its problematic and needs to be dealt with.

    yes PW:S spam would be bad, but you dont see paladins getting a spell based around forbearance do you?? 'the spells they get it from would be too powerful to spam (obviously) so lets just make a talent around the crappy debuff they gain!' thats backward logic and i dont like it >

    meanwhile what paladins do get, while we/I are on comparing, is Judgements of the Pure.

    basically what im trying to strain out like an uncomfortable kidney stone, is that despite the 25% haste being wonderful, 6 seconds is too short unless you are in an ohcrap moment, and with this being the 'minimum damage and single target awesome keeping main tank up without breaking a sweat while lasting longer than your mom with my mana'- tree that ohcrap talent shouldnt feel so crap, it should feel like 'nice, this gives me some room to slap a penance on that offtank when he needs my help(not necessarily within 6 seconds :-X), my smooth awesomeness is keeping the MT up no probs bro and it never hurts to help!'

    yes?

  6. #6

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    If you've been watching from the early days of Beta, Elightenment had both 5% int stam and spirit as well as 5% damage and healing. That damage and healing was then moved to Focused power and int was removed completely and they added in haste. I'm not 100% sure why we're even really talking about this, I mentioned it would be nice to have back, that's it.

    PW:S into a GH could possibly cause some rage issues, sure, but I haven't tested it first hand. Personally, what I would do is PW:S and follow up with a penance to stack up grace to it's max, and then bring in a GH. But that's a playstyle thing, not quite a game mechanic issue.

    as far as testing goes, the only thing I have done is healed a solo pally tank in a KZ run on PTR and while the pally had some mana problems, they were not from the bubbles/aegis, it was more the speed we were pulling.

    Judgement of the pure...45 point talent, 5 talents to max the ability, 10% haste compared to our 5%. Sure, it seems better on the surface, but the holy pallys in my guild fire their judgement early in the fight and never do it again. That's what a ret pally is for. So, while they have more benefit, they have to waste a global cooldown and mana to judge something else. I'm not seeing the comparison.

    I do agree, making the buff from borrowed time act more like an inner fire buff would be wonderful. but, in my opinion, it's far from a major concern. As I said, my playstyle of going to be:

    1. Tank takes damage
    2. bubble
    3. Heal that damage

    and I cannot imagine that step 3 is going to take me longer than 5 seconds to do. If the buff is being consumed by instant casts, well, that's a big problem and more than likely unintended.

  7. #7

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    While it would be nice to have the duration of Borrowed time extended i don't see the occasion coming up very often that you are going to have more than a 6 second pause after shielding them. Generally i think people won't bubble MTs before they pull, it doesn't really serve any purpose as you know they are going to get hit so you can have another heal prepared and makes their job of generating threat harder. Once the tank is in to "stable tanking" shields and aegis should be fine as it just adds to their mitigation.

    On another note Judgments of the Pure is very different to Borrowed Time and comes with its own issues. Many Holy Paladins won't be taking it as to trigger it they have to stop healing, judge the boss then switch back to the healing target so they have to balance up if 10% haste is worth the cost of a global cooldown
    >:7

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  8. #8

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    as with both endgame raiding scenarios we have had thus far (naxx and sunwell) tanks have a threat cap due to their increasing and increasing avoidance and the fact that they have optimised their rotations and spec.

    in the end, dps just needs to take a step back and sometimes stop dps altogether for a time. tanks get tons of damage and their threat gen is not the problem, the early -pull- shield is not a problem either, when the boss takes it off in 1 hit. its the sustained threat gen many sunwell raiding wars are capped on apparently. 1 shield at the start wont affect this, continuous shielding throughout the fight is likely to affect this through less rage generation and then even less threat building.

    i very much like the disc tree, but i do not think it would be wise even now, to shield your tank continuously, let alone when you have divine aegis.

    and nuronv, with the ptr (and thereby, beta) you can set focus on a target, even (in the unlikely event) if you do not have healbot/grid/etc etc you can keep healing your target while targetting the boss, this requires you to tab target it and just mouseclick whatever spell you want via healbot to the main/offtank.
    this has no risk at all. and i believe (as a sidenote) haste affects and reduces the GCD aswell.

    the talents cant be compared, i agree, but as far as being worth the points, 10% haste for 30 seconds is waay better than starving a tank of rage moreso and 25% haste on 1 spell cast within 6 seconds.

  9. #9

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    I didn't say there was risk to judging. I just wanted to point out it just doesn't trigger from a spell that is in your normal healing rotation
    >:7

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  10. #10

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    well with more damage has come more rage, so, again, I haven't seen it first hand, but I really don't think rage starvation will be as big of a problem in wrath. They have changed how rage is actually given to the tank...through damage done, not all through damage taken. We'll have to see.

  11. #11
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    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Problem with grace is still not just how long it lasts, but the fact that its a 41 point talent that takes 2 points and 3 stacks to fill against the "opponent" Blessing of Sanctuary - a 21 point talent that takes 1 point, is on the logical way in the prot paladin tree, adds more effects, lasts longer and can be on serveral targets at once (not just two).

    Not going to adress the rest cause overall disc is "fine" for single target healing its just too weak.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
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  12. #12

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    it also gives 6% increased healing to the target (though by the priest alone, no others)

    i know what you mean tho.. its abit.. unfinished.

  13. #13

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Are you insane!? take the nondispellable debuff off of PW:shield. After that statement I know you are just either looking for an argument and/or 12yrs old.

    Having PW:shield with no drawback would make dis Priests with Reflective shield broken.

    And ill say it again are you insane?!

  14. #14

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glacialforce
    Are you insane!? take the nondispellable debuff off of PW:shield. After that statement I know you are just either looking for an argument and/or 12yrs old.

    Having PW:shield with no drawback would make dis Priests with Reflective shield broken.

    And ill say it again are you insane?!
    i never said to remove weakened soul. just reduce the duration.

  15. #15

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    All the info comming out of beta suggest the damage absorbtion effect isn't creating the sort or rage starvation problems it did in TBC. Because prot dps has increased signficantly rage is being generated through white attacks a lot more... Blizzard were keeping a close eye on rage starvation but I have yet to see any reliable posts stating it's a problem.

    Blizzard have stated that DS will not be trainable, might as well stop the QQ about how it should be. Decision has been made so time to accept it.

    Blizzard have also stated that Disc healing is going to revolve around damage prevention, so if you don't take Divine Aegis you're severely limiting your ability to heal in disc. If you don't like the damage prevention mechanic I suggest you spec holy. A lot of people dont like the way disc heals, I personally would like to try it if i swtch from a dps role to healing role in wrath, but there is a whole other tree to spec into if you make the personal decision that disc doesnt cut it. I think damage prevention is a safer way to heal and the disc tree does look to have higher HPS for single targets which is ideal for MT healing.

  16. #16

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2OfDiamonds
    * Power Word: Shield - this spell creates problems of its own, as someone said on the official beta forums, there are 18 talent points (Borrowed Time/Renewed Hope/Rapture/Reflective Shield/Imp. PW:S concerning this spell, and it STILL gives a nonremoveable debuff lasting 15 seconds to the target!

    <insert 'this is madness' joke, but instead of a joke, its not>

    i really dont know what to say about PW:S.. the cooldown of 4 seconds has never been a problem, weakened soul has always been a problem, though by removing weakened soul or shortening its duration there presents the problem of warrior and druid tank rage generation through absorbtion.
    Wow.. you didn't say to remove Weakened Soul huh... cause it sure looks like you did. Please go troll somewhere else.

  17. #17

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TES
    Wow.. you didn't say to remove Weakened Soul huh... cause it sure looks like you did. Please go troll somewhere else.
    ugh.. fair enough thats what quotes are for, you would also see i only used it once there, casually, but the more serious note was reduction of said debuff, or including a reduction in the aspiration talent, which i still feel would be a nice thing.

    troll troll troll your board, gently down the stream!

    good thing you were there to correct me, sad thing is that you seemed to fixate on that bit, where i also stated reducing and that it would be problematic. basically a battle lost for my memory, and a battle lost for your reading skills, right?

    *edit* and yeah.. that bit of my post wasnt about how i didnt knew how to fix it and randomly throwing out ideas at all, no.. that was me saying it should be removed, not me saying 'i really dont know what to say about PW:S.. the cooldown of 4 seconds has never been a problem.. etc etc'

    reading comprehension: its not for everyone.

  18. #18

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    So someone points out that said something after you said you didn't. Also mentions that you obviously here to only QQ and try to piss people off. You get defensive. You are obviously a pro troll. /sarcasm

    You said you NEVER said it. I had proof you did. End of Discussion.

    TL;DR
    TES: No U
    2ofDiamonds: QQ.. you is wrong... You not read...


  19. #19

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    * there could be a very simple solution to PW:S's overwhelming presence in the disc tree, the drag Weakened soul puts on it all and the frustration resulting in it, and the whining and cries resulting in that..

    * Aspiration in the disc tree next to rapture and below pain suppression, could be given a 20/40% duration reduction on weakened soul, maybe even more if it turns out to be balanced. would eliminate alot of friction in the hate/love relationship we have with this spell.


    [/quote]

    No

    then whats the point in taking renewed hope if you take a talent that removes its core function, dont forget we get increased crit chance on weakend soul debuff, which could be good, shield>penance (maybe penance crits) > divine aegis.

    Yes we have two shields now, disc doesnt rely on pw:shield solely, would be a poor tree if it was, because we cant heal with shields.

  20. #20

    Re: Big list of Disc suggestions/things that need addressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    Yes we have two shields now, disc doesnt rely on pw:shield solely, would be a poor tree if it was, because we cant heal with shields.
    yes we can, albeit somewhat indirectly.

    and to TES, if i were to say 'if i miss the retaking of undercity event, im gonna kill someone!' you would immediately call the cops because i AM gonna kill someone right now?!

    putting something out of context is so very.. fox-news like, please tell me you are not allowed to vote?

    you failing - 2
    you making a point - 0
    you being right about me not being friendly when faced with idiocy and ignorance - 1
    me being right about rage starvation and pretty much all i said in this thread(i will wait for smart remarks) - 1

    that is all.

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