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  1. #21

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I think we can agree that a disc priest can have a spot in a 25 man. I also won't argue that some disc priests can heal in a 10 man, but I will contest that it does not speak for the vast majority. I think disc priests are going to be in the same situation as balance druids were in BC. They offer nice raid buffs, but they need to pull there weight in raids as well. The changes to the discipline tree will make it easier for them to do so, but I don't believe it will be an understood fact that all disc priests will be able to keep up. As a raid leader, I would definately be interested in trying a disc priest in a raid, but I would probably ask a proven holy priest to try it first, before I specifically recruited for a discipline priest. My suggestion to someone who wants to raid discipline would be to apply as holy, and prove that you can heal, then suggest to try raiding discipline. If in fact you can perform as well, if not better, then any raid leader should allow you to keep your spec. This is what nearly every class has had to do at some point.

    P.S. You cant fill in for a holy pally because you don't have pally buffs. Yes you have spirit, but it doesn't substitute for might, or wisdom, or kings. Sorry. A discipline priest will fill a priest spot.

  2. #22

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible
    Grace doesn't provide something a prot paladin can't provide
    The idea is for no class to monopolise any buffs/debuffs... I don't see how this is an issue. You might as well start listing all the other similar buffs/debuffs that don't stack and explain why the lesser versions of those are no good.

    Point is the new environment will not dictate who you have to bring and guilds will have the option to bring buffs/debuffs from a variety of classes which will result in less raid stacking.

    This is a good thing, and Grace does provide an additional 6% healing to the disc priest and as they focus on single target healing they are going to want that buff.

  3. #23

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Regarding healing meters. Since the amount absorbed is indicated in the combat log, I would imagine that they could be modified to include that in effective healing as required. I would have assumed someone would have already done this! (or at least have a section on absorbed damage)

  4. #24

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kozikk
    I think we can agree that a disc priest can have a spot in a 25 man. I also won't argue that some disc priests can heal in a 10 man, but I will contest that it does not speak for the vast majority. I think disc priests are going to be in the same situation as balance druids were in BC. They offer nice raid buffs, but they need to pull there weight in raids as well.
    Discipline priests are healing 5-, 10-, and 25-man content on beta right now.

    No one will argue that the hp/s of a Discipline priest is less than a Holy priest. But it shouldn't be the same. The trees emphasize different approaches to PvE damage: health restoration (holy) and damage mitigation (discipline). Going into PvE as a discipline priest with the intent of "healing" the same way would be boring.

    If well played, a tank attended to by a discipline priest should not require as much hp/s because the damage mitigation closes the gap allowing less healing to be needed.

    It's a completely different play style. I don't think it's necessarily even accurate to say that "Discipline priests don't -heal- as well as others" because you can come right back and say "well, others don't mitigate damage as well as discipline priests."

  5. #25

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kozikk
    P.S. You cant fill in for a holy pally because you don't have pally buffs. Yes you have spirit, but it doesn't substitute for might, or wisdom, or kings. Sorry. A discipline priest will fill a priest spot.
    I think we can all agree that the PvE discipline priest is going to be a single-target healer used almost exclusively for tanks. Having a 3.0 Discipline Priest for Brutallus right -now- on live would make that fight rather easier, I would guess.

    But in that niche, I can't imagine that any 10- or 25-man raid would need or want more than one. They don't have the sorts of goodies that would make them good raid healers (but who knows at this point). But there are plenty of boss fights where there is more than one thing being tanked, so who knows.

  6. #26

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    We can say any class is situational. Every class has a particular fight that lets them shine. Brut is the disc priest's fight. The raid damage is totally handled by chain heal, so all it leaves is massive single-target damage. Be that by brut himself, or the burn. The damage mitigation will help immensely considering it is all in burst, so the only way to truly eliminate deaths is to lessen damage. For a fight like brut, I would probably bring 2 disc priests, but it doesn't mean they are optimal in every situation.
    So here is the situation we are in;
    Is Disc a viable raid spec when used correctly: yes
    Are people afraid to try new raid specs in large raids: yes
    I don't think the hesitation comes in regard to the viability of the spec, but rather how it will work with their raid. As everyone has said, discipline i not a healing spec, but a damage mitigation spec. There is not another class that can claim they do that. Most raid leaders are hesitant because it's something new to raiding.

    Also, there is hesitation on the part of raiders to accept a disc priest because disc has always been a PvP spec. When someone says they don't do holy, and will only raid discipline, it makes people question your experience in raiding. This also shows inflexibility, which is not good in a raiding guild. I would love to raid elemental all the time, but sometimes I have to heal because my class is good at it. As I said before, I would be more than willing to try a disc priest as a permanent spot in a raid, but I would have a proven holy priest try it out first. I don't think I would bring in someone who only raids disc until I have seen how the spec works in my particular raid.

  7. #27

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosaes
    I was just wondering if in you think that the ominous third Priest tree will get any PvE-Raid time or if it will be one of those "What the hell were you thinking, do Arena instead..." choices.

    Personally, I played 41 disc all the way to SW in BC, finding it very helpful in certain situations.



    there is multiple blue posts that discipline priest will be the best main tank healer in the game.

  8. #28

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball
    Every serious guild will force you to respec holy if you'd want to raid with them. Disc simply doesnt have any advantages over Holy.
    wtf are you talking about

  9. #29

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    only reason you would invite a disc priest to a 25 manner is a) hes over geared or b) just use him for his spirit buff cant think of any other reason why you would bring one

  10. #30

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Blue posters have stated MULTIPLE times that Disc will be one of the most effective single target healers. better than holy, better than other trees/classes at single target healing. (not saying disc is going to be the best)

    read the blue posts and close this post, its pointless, raids will bring the good players not the good classes.

    Disc will excel in single target healing, those that recognize that will benefit, those that are ignorant to it will not.

  11. #31

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I have no problem with respeccing Holy and have spend 4k+ Gold on doing so more often than I can remember. My original post was only to question if there will be a permanent raid-spot possible for a disc-priest. I dont mean it in a "Sure he can raid if he specs holy 50% of the time"sort of way.

    I just wanted to see if the general opinion is that the role of the disc will change compared to pre lich were it was based purely on arena(with only a few exeptions), or if it will remain alongside ShS-Rogues, Ms-Warries or Demo WLs in the PvP home.


  12. #32

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxbrother
    only reason you would invite a disc priest to a 25 manner is a) hes over geared or b) just use him for his spirit buff cant think of any other reason why you would bring one
    OMG

    L2Think Outside The Box

  13. #33

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosaes
    I have no problem with respeccing Holy and have spend 4k+ Gold on doing so more often than I can remember. My original post was only to question if there will be a permanent raid-spot possible for a disc-priest. I dont mean it in a "Sure he can raid if he specs holy 50% of the time"sort of way.
    I feel pretty good about the liklihood that Discipline will be PvE viable.

    Unfortunately ...

    ... I don't think it will save you any money on respec'ing.

    The talents that you would want for PvE are different than those you would want for PvP, imo. And so Discipline switching from PvP to PvE is likely to require a respec.

  14. #34

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kozikk
    Brut is the disc priest's fight... For a fight like brut, I would probably bring 2 disc priests, but it doesn't mean they are optimal in every situation.
    Unfortunately, the mechanics of Discipline make it such that there is no benefit to stacking PvE Discipline priests.

    The Weakened Soul effect prevents another priest from shielding. One priest can keep the shield up as much as it possibly can be up.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?
    As many as arms warriors, and sub rogues.

    In case you didden't get the point, here's an answer:

    NO

  16. #36

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Me Holy for PVE
    Me Disc for PVP
    Me Shadow for PEW PEW

  17. #37
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    So you're saying that you only do instances where you can do with poor single heals?
    Or did everybody but me forgot why people spec's holy now days?

    Sunwell got alot of splash damage, that's for sure.

  18. #38

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Can't find the post, but I know that there was a blue post stating that we will never see the amount of raid-wide damage in WotLK that was dolled out in late-BT and SWP, so no point in stacking CoH holy priests like we do now, so nyahh!

    The assistant Priest lead and I have already planned out what we're doing for WotLK. He's going disc, I'll stay holy, we'll both raid and collect phat lewtz.

  19. #39

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    So you're saying that you only do instances where you can do with poor single heals?
    Or did everybody but me forgot why people spec's holy now days?

    Sunwell got alot of splash damage, that's for sure.
    There have been some excellent posts outlining how PvE Disc differs from Holy, why it's an interesting and novel approach to dealing with PvE damage, and how PvE Disc involves a different approach...

    ... but you just don't get it. Srsly.

    I mean, there's no problem here.

    If you want to deal with PvE damage by putting out lots of hp/s, then spec Holy. That's what that tree is all about.

    But if your primary complaint with Disc for PvE is that its hp/s is lower then Holy ...

    ... well duh. I mean, that's obvious.

    Disc is a damage mitigation tree. Holy is a health restoration tree. They each deal with the problem of PvE damage in different ways. It's absolutely no different than the mechanism that allows bear druids to be viable tanks in TBC even though they use no shield. The bear druid mitigates more damage than, say, a prot pally.

    I can't help it if you can't understand how the mechanics of the Disc tree would be useful in PvE. Sure, the Holy tree has tools to deal with AoE damage. Disc doesn't. That single fact does not mean that Disc is unsuitable for PvE in any role. Nor does the possibility that a raid may only need one Disc priest mean that the tree has no value.

    So ... just roll a holy priest. It seems that that is easier for you to understand.

  20. #40

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?


    So ... just roll a holy priest. It seems that that is easier for you to understand.

    Blue said that disc will be the best single target healer, but didnt said that it will be just MT healer.
    Most fights need one, two sometimes three OT so you can easly take 2/3 disc priest for tanks background, and take 3 or four holy priests to keep rest crue alive, or other aoe heals.
    I see the problem with no aoe heals heroes. Resto druid and holy paly can lose their position for the best single target heals.

    Cherio

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