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  1. #41

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by felix8024

    Blue said that disc will be the best single target healer, but didnt said that it will be just MT healer.
    Most fights need one, two sometimes three OT so you can easly take 2/3 disc priest for tanks background, and take 3 or four holy priests to keep rest crue alive, or other aoe heals.
    I see the problem with no aoe heals heroes. Resto druid and holy paly can lose their position for the best single target heals.

    Cherio
    raided naxx 10m, 4 times
    once as disci, 3 times as holy.
    according to the log - holy higher Hps (by alot, if i'll compare on the same encounter as disci i did 2.4k HPS (raw) and as holy 3.1k HPS (raw).
    as discipline the tank took much less damage. as disipline i was limited to MT healing.

    i assume i will stay full holy, though if i see from raid to raid that all i do in raids is keep the tank alive - i will spec discipline for it (though without penance).

    i can say one thing: there is a proper discipline PVE MT healing, but its poor healing and based on absording the damage. at the same time - the discipline priest is also very limited - he can only heal MT's or single target, when it came to healing raid - throwing flash heals, sheilds around missing my CoH.

    i can deffinetly say i enjoyed Holy much more as a PVE specc for a PVE raid, although its almost the same as level 70.

    to 25m naxx i went as holy. we didn't have any disci priest in raid, one had DS (not improved), 3 healer priests, 1 shadow.

  2. #42
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Stop being ignorant people, there'll still be AoE healing.

    Circle of Healing > Absorption Shielding

    It's that simple.

    Not to mention, HASTE plays ALOT BIGGER ROLE in Wrath, and guess what spec scale LEAST with haste?

    Disciplin is Utility/PvP , and is designed to be Utility/PvP and always WILL BE Utility/PvP



  3. #43

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    As many as arms warriors, and sub rogues.

    In case you didden't get the point, here's an answer:

    NO
    We raid Sunwell with Arms warriors.

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Stop being ignorant people, there'll still be AoE healing.

    Circle of Healing > Absorption Shielding

    It's that simple.

    Not to mention, HASTE plays ALOT BIGGER ROLE in Wrath, and guess what spec scale LEAST with haste?

    Disciplin is Utility/PvP , and is designed to be Utility/PvP and always WILL BE Utility/PvP
    My guild's already told me that they are going to have one shieldhealer for MT assignments in raids. I should know this because it's going to be me who's doing it. Maybe you should PLAY the class before you run off your yap about it.




  5. #45

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Short answer no.

    Some guilds will try it (and fail) but atm disc will stay a pvp tree.

    Only tank that will be able to stand a disc priest in the raid is a paladin.

  6. #46

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I'm a big fan of speccing DS, I always spec it when I'm not required to spec CoH, but with the changes to Imp. DS, I won't bother anymore. Removing the scaling sucks big time.

    So long Disc in raids.

  7. #47

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by joopxiv
    I'm a big fan of speccing DS, I always spec it when I'm not required to spec CoH, but with the changes to Imp. DS, I won't bother anymore. Removing the scaling sucks big time.

    So long Disc in raids.
    Its not so much the scaling IDS/Spirit %... its the fact that you can't stack spellpower buffs anymore. Meaning ToW and FT Totem > IDS.

  8. #48

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vegastommy
    Short answer no.

    Some guilds will try it (and fail) but atm disc will stay a pvp tree.

    Only tank that will be able to stand a disc priest in the raid is a paladin.
    Hmmm.... way off here. Paladins will get hit hardest with disc priests healing. Paladins rely on taking sustained damage to keep mana and in turn keep aggro. If they are taking considerably less damage then they will have a harder time tanking (especially in long fights).

    And furthermore ive read a blue post that healing warriors and druids as disc didn't rage starve them at all.


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Ap%C3%A1che

  9. #49

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Just told my gm today that I would be going Disc/holy for raiding, like all the way down the disc tree. He was nothing but happy, disc is going to be a strong spec for single target healing as stated in the blue posts.
    I can't wait to shoot out a pom, have it crit 5 times in a row, and I'll have a little ring of bubbles...

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by rikken
    Just told my gm today that I would be going Disc/holy for raiding, like all the way down the disc tree. He was nothing but happy, disc is going to be a strong spec for single target healing as stated in the blue posts.
    I can't wait to shoot out a pom, have it crit 5 times in a row, and I'll have a little ring of bubbles...
    Finally. someone else with some sense. Thank you.

  11. #51

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Healbot411
    Hmmm.... way off here. Paladins will get hit hardest with disc priests healing. Paladins rely on taking sustained damage to keep mana and in turn keep aggro. If they are taking considerably less damage then they will have a harder time tanking (especially in long fights).

    And furthermore ive read a blue post that healing warriors and druids as disc didn't rage starve them at all.
    It's true that Paladins have the lowest overall damage mitigation (I've seen some numbers), and so take the most damage which, for them, is good because healing gives them mana.

    But I don't see how Paladins will be at a special disadvantage when healed by a discipline priest as compared to a warrior or druid. In TBC, druids have the highest mitigation from armor and they have no trouble getting rage even though they take much less damage (generally speaking) than paladins.

    Discipline damage mitigation will affect both rage generation for bears and warriors, as well as mana regeneration for paladins. Paladins don't have a special disadvantage. Even so, the last word from Koraa was that healing in 5-, 10-, and 25-mans as Disc did not result in aggro problems with the tank.

  12. #52
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown
    My guild's already told me that they are going to have one shieldhealer for MT assignments in raids. I should know this because it's going to be me who's doing it. Maybe you should PLAY the class before you run off your yap about it.
    You use a CoH spec healer with full Inspiration and full +22 healing sockets for MT healing.

    But you could also just bring another paladin, it's more efficient and gives more utility (pew pew buffs). Wiping on Entropius atm. I can clearly say that using a disciplin priest instead of holy would be a big waste, and heavy aoe healing is nessary.

  13. #53

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    You use a CoH spec healer with full Inspiration and full +22 healing sockets for MT healing.

    But you could also just bring another paladin, it's more efficient and gives more utility (pew pew buffs). Wiping on Entropius atm. I can clearly say that using a disciplin priest instead of holy would be a big waste, and heavy aoe healing is nessary.
    Firstly, CoH with full Inspiration for MT healing ...

    ... is the most fail thing I have ever seen written in a forum. Srsly. That's just retarded.

    For single-target healing, Inspiration is fail. The hp/s on a single target is low and for hard-hitting bosses like Patchwerk, you couldn't possibly heal a tank that way. Incidentally, Disc priests have already successfully healed tanks on Patchwerk.

    I don't think you know what you're talking about.

    Secondly, on bringing a holy paladin for tank healing instead of a disc priest...

    ... sure. Holy paladins are very capable tank healers. So a raid could bring one. Stacking paladins was win in TBC. Because utility is being deemphasized and homogenized in WotLK, things may end up being quite different in WotLK.

    But you have demonstrated no clear evidence that you grasp accurately the Disc priest concept. So I don't value your opinions about them. Disc priests are healing raids in beta right now, despite your protestations that they can't.

  14. #54

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I think all you raid viability Disc Priest haters are missing a point here...

    % of base mana

    There will be no down ranking of spells, even on heals. I used to have 3 GHs bound to my keyboards, as well as CoH and PoH. Topping off the tank will be wasted heals here on out with % of base mana running rampant.

    The talents the disc priest has to enhance the targets mitigation and ability to heal with lower mana consumption will be very valuable in a long fight.

    Greater Heal = 32 % of Base Mana (Holy) Take that as an example.

    The combined effect of the temporary buffs the Disc Priest will be able to provide to the main tank will be very valuable in saving the rest of the healers mana and making hots go the distance.

    EDIT* spelling

  15. #55

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothri
    It's true that Paladins have the lowest overall damage mitigation (I've seen some numbers), and so take the most damage which, for them, is good because healing gives them mana.

    But I don't see how Paladins will be at a special disadvantage when healed by a discipline priest as compared to a warrior or druid. In TBC, druids have the highest mitigation from armor and they have no trouble getting rage even though they take much less damage (generally speaking) than paladins.

    Discipline damage mitigation will affect both rage generation for bears and warriors, as well as mana regeneration for paladins. Paladins don't have a special disadvantage. Even so, the last word from Koraa was that healing in 5-, 10-, and 25-mans as Disc did not result in aggro problems with the tank.
    Sorry my post want clear.

    I am not talking about Disc Priests "Healing". It is irrelevant whether a paladin tank gets healed with say Flash of Light, Healing Touch, Flash Heal, Healing Wave, or any other healing spell. The fact of the matter is that through Healing (not mitigation PW:S or Divine Aegis) that they receive mana.

    Having said this Druids and Warriors still produce rage through both dealing damage and receiving damage. I am unclear as to the specific numbers on how much rage they receive taking damage vs dealing damage. Blizz has said that it has not been an issue on the Beta, so I'm assuming that they are generating enough rage through damage dealt (since the whole tanking and aggro has been changed) and shielding them is not an issue. Yes i understand that this will lower their available rage amount by shielding them and absorbing damage that would have been converted to rage.

    It still doesn't answer my question, or my assumptions, that by use of PW:S and Divine Aegis procs will mana starve paladins. I fully understand that PW:S has essentially a 15 second cooldown when cast on 1 individual player and can't be spammed and shouldn't, but Divine Aegis is based on crit so it is still somewhat random.

    So theoretically
    1. You shield a Paladin early in a fight (not at the beginning)
    2. They take damage and PW:S absorbs damage and expires (thus reducing the mana they would have gained form healing that amount)
    3. You cast say Penance and get 2 of the 3 ticks as crits thus procing Divine Aegis.
    4. Now the Paladin has a nice 1.5-2k (unsure about the numbers) bubble around them absorbing even more damage. (thus also reducing the mana they would have gained from healing that amount)
    5. Fight continues with healing via Flash Heal, GHeal, Penance, etc and you are continuing producing mini shields on top of crits.
    6. etc... fight continues

    As far as i know (mb I'm wrong, I don't read up on changes to Paladins much if at all) Paladins do not restore mana on melee hits. So by keeping them shielded via PW:S and Divine Aegis you are effectively reducing the damage they receive and mitigating the the healing they would have received if shields were not there, thus lowering the mana received. Also take into account that most paladins sacrifice big mana pools for more "tanking" stats.

    I know that disc Priests will not have a magic bubble surrounding tanks at all time and we will still need to apply direct heals and HoT's, but buy centering us around more powerful PW:S's and mix in Divine Aegis for mitigation could make it harder for Paladins to tank say vs a Holy Priest or any other healer. But if i were going to go Disc to PvE with i would defiantly bump up crit on my priority in gear. From what I've seen is there's an abundance of crit now on cloth armor so i don't think finding this on gear will be a problem. More crit (which is good in most cases) means more Divine Aegis procs and potential problems.

    Maybe it won't be an issue and our shields will be wiped out in 1/2 a hit idno, but i can see how this could be a problem especially when they are having to really blow through mana to fight for aggro.

    Hope I've made my concern more clear to you and any feedback is accepted, especially from someone who has had experience healing Paladins on Beta as Disc.javascript:void(0);


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Ap%C3%A1che

  16. #56

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I don't like directing posts at specific ppl, but in this case I must make an exception.

    Nezoia, take a good long look at all the AoE healing that you're doing in SWP.

    Say goodbye.

    Blues have stated that LK raids will never have that much AoE damage.

    No need to stack CoH priests like you guys are now.

  17. #57

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    In a way good, in a way bad. I was loathe to scrap the IDS spec in favour of CoH but entering Sunwell made it pretty much mandatory. Now that CoH is becoming less needed I'd have hoped IDS would be viable again.

    Shame they nerfed the high fuckery out of it.

  18. #58
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    This is why you're dead wrong if you think a Disc priest can't be a main healer in a 25-man raid. Or even a 10-man.

    Average number of healers per 25-man: 7-8
    Average number of raid healers per 25-man: 3-5

    So by that simple math, that means you will have about an average of 4 MT healers per raid. That usually falls to paladins and druids, but druids have little utility except tree of life. So you'd take 3 paladins (of which most are gonna wanna be ret) and one druid? That's just stupid and eliminates additional options. One discipline priest is perfect. It brings additional options for the raid and the tank. On top of which, one lucky caster is going to get a focus macro set on them to cast Power Infusion, thus also boosting dps.

    Now let's take a 10-man. By the way Naxx is designed, you will likely have 2 tanks. For Four Horsemen, you technically have four. You will likely have 3 healers. Now, considering one fight in Naxx has an inability to heal it for most of the encounter (Loatheb) and one has people being tanks who have little ability to mitigate damage (Horsemen), what would you do? Ask a holy priest to put up bubbles? You can just as well in a 10-man bring a resto shaman to cover any aoe healing needs. You will still need one MT healer. You could bring a paladin, but he has no way to mitigate damage done to the tank. A disc priest does. And the less damage the tank is receiving, the less mana your healers are using to keep him alive.

    Essentially, it comes down to one thing. Utility main tank healing. Less healing = less mana used. Less mana used = more healing when and where it's needed. That ensures that the raid has more success of overall survivability. Therefore, the discipline priest is quite usable. Not in mass quantities. Any other priests will be holy. But having one certainly will not, nor does not, hurt.

  19. #59

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Healbot411

    And furthermore ive read a blue post that healing warriors and druids as disc didn't rage starve them at all.
    They will.......... with the dps increase of everyclass sometimes it's hard to keep up with threat. Everybit of Rage/RunicPower will be needed.

    Shields are just a burden to classes that need to take damage to deal threat.

    Works with paladins who are also the only class that has an ability that doesn't stack with grace.

    I'm sorry but I don't see this working.

    Let's say by some act of god it does work........... will you be happy? You will be a terrible support class who heals for a lot less than everyone but defends your position in a raid because of your damage reduction however you'll be unable to prove your usefulness by statistics therefore will just look bad.

    You will look terrible in a raid.......... personally (whether useful or not and I think not) I want to be top of DPS or Healing or being MT. I don't want to be outdone by anyone.

    Why do priests want to raid as disc so badly?

    If you think Grace and Pain suppresion will out do CoH and GS I think your crazy. Prove me wrong...... cause even if you can you can't prove it and will not be able to.

  20. #60

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vegastommy
    They will.......... with the dps increase of everyclass sometimes it's hard to keep up with threat. Everybit of Rage/RunicPower will be needed.

    Shields are just a burden to classes that need to take damage to deal threat.
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/6/10544...eneration.html

    Let's say by some act of god it does work........... will you be happy? You will be a terrible support class who heals for a lot less than everyone but defends your position in a raid because of your damage reduction however you'll be unable to prove your usefulness by statistics therefore will just look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Patch
    When a source of damage is entirely prevented (by a shield block, a full resist, or a damage shield like Power Word:Shield, the prevented amount will now be displayed.
    This makes it trackable by damagemeters.


    You will look terrible in a raid.......... personally (whether useful or not and I think not) I want to be top of DPS or Healing or being MT. I don't want to be outdone by anyone.
    Well for me it is uninteresting where I am in a damage oder healingmeter. I'm playing a Shadow. I'm used to be the last in DPS, but without me, all other magic classes would not do their DPS.
    For me disc is the same for healers as shadow has been for magicdps classes in BC, I can support other Healers healing the Tank by making their job easier.

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