Blessing of sancutary - thoughts

[Lexan]

ok so i ABSOLUTLY love the new blessing of sanctuary love it love it love it, like seriously i love it. It is absolutly amazing for making up for the lack of int on a prot pally's gear. I love the idea and that it is so awesome but i do think that it could use some fine tuning. The idea is good like i said but i do think that 2% is not enough for us. Because int got removed for prot pally's, my pool on ptr is about 4.5k mana, using belssing of sanc i get about 80 - 100 mana back per block/dodge/parry depending on solo or is i have any int buffs on. In a very long fight to maintain threat i actually have to manage my mana because i am avoiding so much dmg with my gear and not taking dmg and even though blessing of sanc is awesome it's just not enough to be that awesome. What i propose is that it be change to 3% mana back. it's only 1% more and it will stack better at lv 80 as well as lv 70.

Now if the concern of blizz is that it will be to powerfull where it is in the prot tree being to low or something, then what they could do is move it down one tier and to not gimp pally's to have to get reckoning if they don;t want it they could move imp righteous fury down 1 tree as well and keep it 3 points there by giving us toughness to move to tier 4 and still giving us imp righteous fury.

now that sugestion sounds bad i know cuz having only 1 tallent on a tier is bad cuz then you have nowhere to go to get down farther, no other coice, pretty lame so it's a bad idea fdor the most part except to get blessing of sanc to 3% (please blizz)

Now my other argument for the 3% is that if blizz is worried about people picking it up for pvp it is pretty deep in the prot tree for ret or even holy to pick it up. For ret to get it they can;t get DS and for holy to get it they cant get BoL so leaving it there and changin it to 3% doesn;t sound compleetly insane.

Anyway what do you all think of this a 1% change to the mana back seeing as it's pretty much only going to be used by tanks ( i'd say about 90% or so that only tanks will be using it) but if i am wrong and people like it please say so or if you have a better idea please say so to.

[Shiira]

I like the talent as it is, but don't like the fact that since it is a blessing we can give it to anyone.

A warrior without sanc will take less damage than a paladin with it, but we can still give them sanc, this isn't fair.

I wouldn't mind seeing a buff to the regen proc either but I don't really think it is necessary, unless you outgear content to the point of having no reason to run it any more you shouldn't have mana trouble anyway.

[Tigercat]

The only unfair thing about the buff is that the rage/mana/RP regeneration is extremely strong, yet no other class offers it.

Have fun seeing every 25man and possibly every 10man have to bring a protadin because of how strong it is.

[Shiira]

I can't comment on the other tanks, but from what I have heard warriors don't have threat issues without sanc.

[Tigercat]

Possibly not right now, being undergeared enough to begin with to not gain much from it. As gear improves, the value of sanctuary will improve.

[Lexan]

yes it is very strong, but it is way more beneficial for warriors and dk's which is i odd since it's a pally tallent. and no warriors don't "need" it nor do DK's but it is nice to have for threat gen, but they might want it.

also goo point made by Vallarian, why is it 10% of a warriors bar, and 20% of a dk's bar but only 2% of a pally's bar that doesn't seem fair what so ever, why do they get more when they get rage when taking or doing white dmg, and dk's allways have RP since they allways use runes, so why does the pally (who as a tank and a freeking huge hard time with mana management vs threat generation atm and even a bit on the ptr) get jipped with something pretty much tailored to them.

[Lexan]

Possibly not right now, being undergeared enough to begin with to not gain much from it. As gear improves, the value of sanctuary will improve.

that won't be true, all int has been removed from all tanking plate in the game as well as in Wotlk because it was planned. Prot pally's will have no int on their gear at all, the only place that a prot pally should be getting int from is buffs, if a prot pally has healing gear on or even accesories that have int on them he really isn;t gearing the best he can to tank the best. So the only way it will get better is at lv 80 when our mana pool is larger but even then 2% is not enough with consecrate base costing over 1k mana every 8 seconds. 3% to 5% mana back is not outragous at all seeing how much warriors and dk's get back.

[Shiira]

My guess is that blizzard are worried about giving a class with the ability to heal access to infinite mana, ofc this is meaningless while tanking bosses that matter but it would be serious business if prot paladins were able to solo 5 man content.

[Tigercat]

yes it is very strong, but it is way more beneficial for warriors and dk's which is i odd since it's a pally tallent. and no warriors don't "need" it nor do DK's but it is nice to have for threat gen, but they might want it.

also goo point made by Vallarian, why is it 10% of a warriors bar, and 20% of a dk's bar but only 2% of a pally's bar that doesn't seem fair what so ever, why do they get more when they get rage when taking or doing white dmg, and dk's allways have RP since they allways use runes, so why does the pally (who as a tank and a freeking huge hard time with mana management vs threat generation atm and even a bit on the ptr) get jipped with something pretty much tailored to them.

A warrior can dump their entire rage bar in well under 10 seconds.

A DK can dump their RP bar in 3 global cooldowns.

How long does it take for a paladin to dump all of their mana? Significantly longer.

That's your reasoning for 2%.


As for how it will become stronger as gear becomes stronger: YOU WILL AVOID AND BLOCK MORE, NOT GAIN MORE INT. How can you not see that? I realize a lot of paladins are too busy crying about not having int on gear that doesn't need it, but cmon, think things through.

[Mandible]

Its a 21 point talent to make sure the two other specs doesn't go for it or at least are unable to pick the 51 point talent if they do. Also I still feel its function is a kick in the nuts to discipline priests where the alternative is a 41 point talent that takes 2 point, and has to be stacked 3 times with an 8 seconds duration and only adding 6% healing to the priest itself.

[meroko]

the great thing about sanc is that you can still stack the avoidance gear and produce great amounts of threat, this especially for warriors since full avoidance is less threat, with sanc, this is not the case. A great change imo for all the tanking classes =)

[b37x]

why is it 10% of a warriors bar, and 20% of a dk's bar but only 2% of a pally's bar that doesn't seem fair what so ever

Why is it only 10 rage for warriors, 20 runic power for DK, and a humongous 100 mana for a paladin? That doesn't seem fair. That's 5 times as much as the DK and 10 times as much warrior.

[Shiira]

A warrior can dump their entire rage bar in well under 10 seconds.

A DK can dump their RP bar in 3 global cooldowns.

How long does it take for a paladin to dump all of their mana? Significantly longer.

That's your reasoning for 2%.


As for how it will become stronger as gear becomes stronger: YOU WILL AVOID AND BLOCK MORE, NOT GAIN MORE INT. How can you not see that? I realize a lot of paladins are too busy crying about not having int on gear that doesn't need it, but cmon, think things through.

And how long does it take those bars to fill back up again? Not anywhere near as long as it takes for an oom prot paladin to get a full mana bar even without sanc.

[Tigercat]

That's the point.

You use mana at a slower rate, you gain it back at a slower rate. Both ways can be spiky, but if you honestly think a protadin that knows what the hell they're doing is going to have mana problems I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong.

[Shiira]

Read my first post again.

I know.

I got sidetracked a bit but my original point is that sanc will hardly be required for tanks.

Edit: by the way on live I spam RF to burn my mana when I have free global cooldowns so that I get extra mana gain threat when recieving heals.

[Lexan]

Why is it only 10 rage for warriors, 20 runic power for DK, and a humongous 100 mana for a paladin? That doesn't seem fair. That's 5 times as much as the DK and 10 times as much warrior.

it's based on percentage 10 rage is 10% 20 RP is 20% of thier bar 2% mana is less as far as percentages go.

A warrior can dump their entire rage bar in well under 10 seconds.

A DK can dump their RP bar in 3 global cooldowns.

How long does it take for a paladin to dump all of their mana? Significantly longer.

That's your reasoning for 2%.


As for how it will become stronger as gear becomes stronger: YOU WILL AVOID AND BLOCK MORE, NOT GAIN MORE INT. How can you not see that? I realize a lot of paladins are too busy crying about not having int on gear that doesn't need it, but cmon, think things through.

ok granted that yes more avoidance will be on gear later but anything above 102.65% seems useless since crushes are no longer there so then we would be pusghing regular hits off the table not crushes thus anything more that 102.65% avoidance isn;t worth it, and granted we will get more mana as we lv, but i have 102.65% and over avoidance in my current gear that i am testing out on ptr and i still run out of mana, yes i'lll have more at 80 but also spells will cost more so ok 10% mana to much what would you say to maybe 3% or 4% mana back thats not to much of an increase and won;t make pally's op.

Yes they shouldn't;t be abel to solo 5 man content i agree.

and about QQ'ing about no int, hell i like no int havine str and ap go to seals and spells is freeking amazing, so no i'm not qq'ing about amount of mana never have, just about the regen of mana, mana regen for a prot pally is alot harder then a warriors rage or a dk's RP.

That's the point.

You use mana at a slower rate, you gain it back at a slower rate. Both ways can be spiky, but if you honestly think a protadin that knows what the hell they're doing is going to have mana problems I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong.

like i said a small increese won't be that bad 1% won't kill anyone and like other have said it's not going to be picked up by another spec since it's pretty far in. and for holy pally's never running out of mana, they shouldn;t be neededing to block dodge or parry anyway.

[Tigercat]

@ Shiira:

I disagree.

There aren't many fights, even when first learning cutting edge stuff, that offer truly unlimited power to use. Mana, maybe in TBC, due to how few abilities paladins currently have to tank with, but not rage. It can come close to unlimited, but with the right hit/expertise you can run yourself dry of rage even on Brut(and I mean when he's attacking you, of course).

And for Lexan:

It's not the 2% or 3% or whatever percent you want for paladins that is my issue with the ability. My problem with it is that it is a unique, powerful buff that not even other paladins can offer. It rubs against the grain of Blizzard trying to not force people to bring a specific class/spec to raids.

[Shiira]

Well prot paladins are pretty much the worst tanks overall on the beta, we need to be able to justify our raid spot somehow.

[spleeze]

Earlier I was thinking about this, then I found this thread.

IMO Sanctuary should be a talent that just permanently applies the effects of Blessing of Sanctuary to the paladin.

With all the buff consolidations that Blizz did, I don't understand why this buff still exists. There is no 'other' Sanc buff like there is 'another' might buff, or 'another' wisdom buff.

If it was made a talent and applied only to the paladin who had the talent, it wouldn't be a big deal for other specs. Ret has no mana issues and wouldn't need to go deep to get it, and Holy shouldn't be blocking or dodging or parrying, and even in the case of PVP #1 the talent is deep in the tree, and #2 if they do gimp other areas to get it, avoidance will be so low on a holy pally that it would be pointless.

This would not only help 'fix' prot pally mana regen, but they would be able to benifit from another buff, say might, since all our tanking abilities scale with AP now, and there's that glyph that has might give a bit of spellpower too. Or if mana really is an issue, you can still tack wisdom on yourself. Or maybe it would give a prot pally a reason to spec into kings, because otherwise we'd always be running with sanc.

The BEST option IMO would be to combine the Sanc blessing and spiritual attunement into one talent point and stick it deep in the prot tree. Now prot can regen mana on heals/blocks/dodges/parries and ret has thier judgements of the wise. Holy is in the same place as before, time to un-nerf illumination.

Spiritual attunement isn't needed by ret, or by holy. In fact it created a problem when holy pallies were getting too much mana back in raids from spriest's VE and cause it to be nerfed and not return mana on overheals.

[naliah]

Sanctuary (self buff like Righteous Fury, cannot be dispelled)
3 point talent
10% of base mana
Instant cast
Reduces all damage taken by 1/2/3%. In addition, when you block, parry, or dodge a melee attack you will gain 1/2/3% of maximum mana. All blocked attacks will deal 2/4/6% of your total block value, causing a high amount of threat. If you die with Sanctuary active all friendly targets within 30 yard range will take 5/10/15% less damage for 30 seconds. Sanctuary lasts for 1 hour.

Small mana gain increase, scaling threat increase, tiiiiiny raid viability, opens up 1 blessing slot(not very important in 25-man maybe, but nice for 10 man). Removes the threat gain for other tanks which makes it pretty bad, but you can buff kings or w/e on them instead.

Maybe change the damage reduce to some aura effect that stacks with the normal paladin auras, or really buff it and build the mana/rage/runic power gain into the aura effect. These 2 effects might make it a bit overpowered though, since no other class has a 30y aoe 3% damage reduce for raids.