1. #1

    No QQ - Clarification Request

    With the recent reduction in seal damage, I really wanted to ask this question.

    Most people claimed that Ret Paladins were OP'd because of our massive Burst Damage, but why in the recent reductions did the Tanking and DPS seal get hit?

    Seal of Command I can understand, given that was part of what was declared the problem.
    Seal of Vengeance/Corruption and Seal of Blood/Martyr, why?

    Especially when a lot of posts indicated that our DPS at level 80 was lacking.

    It doesn't make a lot of sense. Can anybody help me clarify why this was done?
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
    The Power of Avoidance! - DK Tank Required Reading
    DK AP Coefficients
    DK Threat Values

    Aurich von Deathstrike

  2. #2

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    honestly i have no idea, i might go back to SoR with reackoning and expertice to tank again with the nerf to SoCor seriously, it was doing more dmg and more threat and was a good seal cuz is was more constant got applied fast and really helped out in the steady tps we needed not the burst we have on live with trinkets and judgements.  i donno aparently SoCor was better then SoComm but i donno i want my cool tanking seal back and not have to still stick with SoR.  I might as well go back to my spell dmg wepon for SoR and skip HoR for the 5 points in holy for more seal dmg.

    edit - atm on ptr the only ability that gains a bonus from a melee dmg weapon is HoR, SoCor was awesome cuz with a 1.6 tanking wepon we got fast stacks and some decent white dmg, but witht he seal nerfed and HoR only being based off dps, then we might as well go with a low dps high spell dmg wepon to give all our other spells (consecrate all seals judgements) do alot more threat for single targets, seals and judge, and multi mobs, consecrate. I like where blizz is going helping us use melee tanking wepons over spell dmg ones, but HoR is still not tweeked enough.

    If it gained some bonus from ap instead of Sp then a Sp wepon would be useless for it alone and still haveing it be dps would still make us want melee tanking wepons maybe like 2 times dps + 25% of ap or something maiking it worth 51 points and a compleet change is wepon.

  3. #3

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Montoya
    With the recent reduction in seal damage, I really wanted to ask this question.

    Most people claimed that Ret Paladins were OP'd because of our massive Burst Damage, but why in the recent reductions did the Tanking and DPS seal get hit?

    Seal of Command I can understand, given that was part of what was declared the problem.
    Seal of Vengeance/Corruption and Seal of Blood/Martyr, why?

    Especially when a lot of posts indicated that our DPS at level 80 was lacking.

    It doesn't make a lot of sense. Can anybody help me clarify why this was done?
    I can kind of understand why SotM and SoB got hit, the actual seal damage itself can crit, unlike Vengeance and SoR. Balances with the nerf to SoComm since it could crit as well.

    As far as Corruption and Vengeance getting the nerf bat too. Probably because DS would apply/refresh the DoT to 4 targets and HotR would do the same to 3.
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    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
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  4. #4

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    because ret would simply switch to a 35% every hit instead of a 56% hit every now and then? i think i'm going to stick with this answer, assuming you think this is a nerf aimed at ret

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

  5. #5

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasttey
    I can kind of understand why SotM and SoB got hit, the actual seal damage itself can crit, unlike Vengeance and SoR. Balances with the nerf to SoComm since it could crit as well.

    As far as Corruption and Vengeance getting the nerf bat too. Probably because DS would apply/refresh the DoT to 4 targets and HotR would do the same to 3.
    holy shit HoR putting it on 3 targets did notthink of that, hmmmm must go test dps on 3 targets, since the bot lasts for 12 seconds, still though should we use SoCor for bosses to or just 3 trash mobs for the dot and more threat, must test threat. WTB working version of a threat meter that gives actuall TPS not just total amount.

  6. #6

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysmere
    because ret would simply switch to a 35% every hit instead of a 56% hit every now and then? i think i'm going to stick with this answer, assuming you think this is a nerf aimed at ret
    That makes a bit of sense.
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
    The Power of Avoidance! - DK Tank Required Reading
    DK AP Coefficients
    DK Threat Values

    Aurich von Deathstrike

  7. #7

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexan
    holy shit HoR putting it on 3 targets did notthink of that, hmmmm must go test dps on 3 targets, since the bot lasts for 12 seconds, still though should we use SoCor for bosses to or just 3 trash mobs for the dot and more threat, must test threat. WTB working version of a threat meter that gives actuall TPS not just total amount.
    Just tested on the PTR, HoR hits 3 mobs DS hits 4. Applies and refreshes SoV/SoCor on all of them whenever the skill is used. Combine this with Seals of the Pure and multi target dps/tanking gets kinda crazy. Only issue I see using it on bosses is the on hit seal damage with 5 stacks is only 1.2% spell power * Weapon Speed. Compared to SoB/SoM its kinda weak, but the judgement scales better on Vengeance/Corruption. Requires further testing imo. Great for trash though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  8. #8

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    you can seal twist both sov/martyr into your rotation. its a bit more dps but requires some extra timing and gcd management. oh well

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

  9. #9

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysmere
    you can seal twist both sov/martyr into your rotation. its a bit more dps but requires some extra timing and gcd management. oh well
    You can also swap weapons during an seal cast with a macro. Since other than seals and HoR your other "tanking spells" Avenger's Sheild, Consecration, Retribution Aura, and Holy Shield scale as well with Spell Power as it does Attack Power, you could conceivably use 2 different weapons. One with Spell Power for most of your rotation and then one with better DPS for when you're using Martyr.

    /cast Seal of the Martyr
    /equip DPS weapon

    /cast Seal of Vengence
    /equp Spell Damage weapon
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome
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    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    The nerf is aimed at ret, and it should not be.

    Bliz should return SoV/SoC back to the way it was. Or not change it at all because wouldnt SoB effects be more baseline damage not burst damage. Or ust nerf the judgemnt not the seal.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Necrox's Avatar
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    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    I believe the weapon swap could easily end up being detrimental for your total dps as it will reset your swing timer and needs to be timed with that, plus your hits with the 1H weapon will be substantially lower than your 2H's.

    I don't think weapon juggling is viable anymore.
    My name is Necrox, and I'm an altoholic.

  12. #12

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    This thread is to be about why two other seals were reduced, when SoCasino was the problem.

    Please keep it on topic.
    "My rage bar is blue, and I start the fight pissed!" - Battlecry of the Ret Paladin.
    "The best defense is a good offense." - Motto of the Ret Paladin.
    River Below - Billy Talent - Theme Song of the Ret Paladin.

    DK Death Strike Tanking
    The Power of Avoidance! - DK Tank Required Reading
    DK AP Coefficients
    DK Threat Values

    Aurich von Deathstrike

  13. #13

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...34810&sid=2000

    It seems we were doing more than enough (?) dps so it needed to be toned down. I think the mentality here were stuck on that report of 1500(?) dps in naxx when we didn't have enough mana to do dps properly and now that the mana is not a problem we were doing too much dps.

  14. #14

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrox
    I believe the weapon swap could easily end up being detrimental for your total dps as it will reset your swing timer and needs to be timed with that, plus your hits with the 1H weapon will be substantially lower than your 2H's.

    I don't think weapon juggling is viable anymore.
    I was thinking of it from a Protection stand point. Using a 1.6 or 1.8 speed weapon you could essentially swap them at the very beginning of a swing timer and loose at most 0.3 sec off it, which isn't too detrimental for a tank considering how often we do swing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  15. #15

    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    i was thinking of doing the samre thing, IF mana regen for prot is good enough we could use a melee dmg one with hit to apply
    SoCor then switch to a spelld mg one to hit with SoR and switch back and reseal every so often to keep up SoCor for the dot, but that seems liek way to much work, granted SoB and SoComm yes i can understand but come on gimme back my cool dot steady tps tanking seal /cry /QQQQQQQQQ

  16. #16
    High Overlord Necrox's Avatar
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    Re: No QQ - Clarification Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasttey
    I was thinking of it from a Protection stand point. Using a 1.6 or 1.8 speed weapon you could essentially swap them at the very beginning of a swing timer and loose at most 0.3 sec off it, which isn't too detrimental for a tank considering how often we do swing.
    Ah ok, fair enough. I don't know much about juggling as Prot as my experience there is very limited
    My name is Necrox, and I'm an altoholic.

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