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  1. #1

    This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    So, I gather 0/20/51 will become the PvP cookie-cutter spec for Paladins?

    Something like this:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I can perhaps see a 0/18/53, but that's pretty much it.

    Someone planning on a widely different Ret-PvP spec?


    Edit: I can see http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 as a popular alternative, but still 0/20/51.

  2. #2

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    That's pretty much what I had thought as my pvp spec at 80, only instead of Kings you should take Divine Strength, and take the points points of Antecipation and put them in Thoughness, reducing the duration of slowing affects helps more then a low chance to dodge melee attacks.

    Also I'd take Improved Blessing of Might over Crusade since it gives you more raw power, which is equal to more spell power wich in return in turned into more damage and healing.

    I would also take Reflection in place of Benediction since 10% reduced mana costs doesn't sound really that great with our great mana regeneration, though all our spells are instant meaning it would cost us 10% less at everything. Not sure about that one

    That's only my opinion though

    Here's a link of the spec:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

  3. #3

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    divine str> bok

    dont rely on dispellable buffs in pvp especially when u dont have much to cover them with
    Quote Originally Posted by Darhaja
    bad math ur doing 1.5.... its 150%* sooo 100 haste rating = 250 after the buff* or 300 haste rating 150% = 750 haste dunno how u got 1.5 or 15% anywhere its giving u 150% more haste from the haste u already have why do ppl try to always complicate things.

  4. #4

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    A seal with only 4% chance to be dispelled is a pretty good way to guard other buffs, though I also prefer passive buffs myself

  5. #5

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    I don't like most of the specs posted above...

    Having a ret pally with full s4 (sans the shoulders) I believe a good spec would be:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

  6. #6

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    I am going with a 0/18/53 build like so:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    And here is why I am doing.

    Ill go over the prot tree first.

    BOK: with the changes to the spell and how many points you have to spend in it now to get the original benefit I just dont think its worth it. Also BoM got buffed so Id pick it up and spend my first 5 points in the prot tree on Divine Strength.

    Next I dropped points from anticipation because I just honestly think there is a better way to spend those two points.

    Also I dropped the points that you had in RF because well itcan be dispelled and I don't like having things that can be dispelled when i can pick up a great passive talent like. . . . .

    Toughness: Yeppers I got rid of 5 points from your build so I could pick this up. I think this spell will not only help us out against those other melee but also help us with those kiters that use to plague us(amd still do just not as much).

    Lets talk about the ret tree changes.

    First thing I did was pick up BoM. I really think this is going to be our pvp blessing
    with the changes to it and Kings. WOTLK=BOM>BOK

    Next I took the three points out of Crusade, but i even doubt this sometimes . .
    a straight passive 6% is nice but We still crit plenty and i dont see a reason of why we wouldnt have three stacks of Vengence going in a matter of seconds in arenas. ( ya ya sheep cyclone sap. . .there are ways but still) But this one could go either way.

    Next I took the 5 points out of Fanaticism and put it into Righteous vengence. I did this because RV gives the same 25% to crit with judgements but also effects Divine storm which is just pure win IMO.

    Well this is what I think I will be rolling when I ding 80 on live . . for PVP anyways.

    DRYCONIAS


  7. #7

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzight
    why 2h weapon spec over crusade? 2h weapon spec is 6% dmg with 2h weapons and crusade is 3% ALL dmg and 3% to humanoids = 6% ALL in pvp exept on druids in forms?
    interesting had not thought of that but good point could be a very good possibility IMO

  8. #8

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    I'm thinking http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I'm a sucker for the new Eye For An Eye, I'll admit it. I might switch out Swift Retribution for Vengeance though; depends on how easy it becomes to stack it considering everyone's going to be pushing almost 1k Resil eventually. *laughs*

    I also might flip Imp. RF to maxing Toughness for the decreasing slowing effects aspect. I might not need that 6% mitigation if my Art of War procs all the time and I get good at reacting. Being kited is a nightmare.

  9. #9

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    Arena:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    That's the basic build for me, you could do minor changes ( move few points from fanatisism or righteous vengeance ) but it seems solid.

  10. #10

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie
    I don't like most of the specs posted above...

    Having a ret pally with full s4 (sans the shoulders) I believe a good spec would be:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000
    Why on earth would you take Righteous Vengeance over Fanaticism? More crits = more instant FoLs...but even without the instant FoL, RV is a rather poor talent.


    Anyways, I was curious if anyone would leave home without Improved Hammer of Justice?

  11. #11

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dryconias
    Next I took the 5 points out of Fanaticism and put it into Righteous vengence. I did this because RV gives the same 25% to crit with judgements but also effects Divine storm which is just pure win IMO.
    Nope. Fanaticism is +25% crit chance, RV is +25% crit damage. Crit chance > crit damage because of resilience and instant FoL procs.


    Edit: Also, I took so many dispellable defenses because the only classes I fear and expect to be very popular in the Arena's can't offensively dispel. I don't mind being weaker vs other classes to have an edge against them.

  12. #12

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    Grumpy Jester you should consider the change made to our primary pvp seal.

    Seal of Command - "This attack will always be critical if the target is stunned or incapacitated".

    With imp HoJ in pretty much all ret pvp specs and a talented judgement at 8 second cd atleast one of your three judgements every 30 seconds is assured to crit (this ignored repentance). Also considering that a ret pala at 80 in decent pvp gear will most likely have around 30% crit chance on melee and spells thanks to the merging of the crit stat I would say fanaticism is really more useful in pve now where we judge boss mobs which cant be stunned as well as with different seals.

    Ill run with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 at 80. I want to maximise my damage output while avoiding dispellable buffs.

  13. #13

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?


    Ill run with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 at 80. I want to maximise my damage output while avoiding dispellable buffs.
    [/quote]

    My thoughts and my spec exactly. Well played, sir.

  14. #14
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    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    It depends on what team makeup but tbh the new eye for eye is way to amazing to pass up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  15. #15

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    My only gripe with eye for an eye is that while it is a good talent there are more attractive talents on offer for the style of play I want. In most the builds I made it usually came down to Eye for an eye or Vindication, considering that Eye for an eye needs you to be crit for it to work it strikes me as a worst case scenario talent because in pvp I DONT want to be crit.

    When I have played on my mage against ret paladins I have noticed Eye for an eye proc on me when I crit them but the damage I would take from hitting them with a 3k crit would only be 600 which is negligible at best when I would have 10k hp.

    In comparison Vindication is an incredibly useful talent for a ret paladin style of pvp, we use our high burst dmg to cut someone down before they have much time to retaliate, usually the longer the fight goes on the worse it goes for the paladin.

    PS. Can anyone confirm that stamina is one of the attributes reduced by 20% by Vindication, if it is OMFGROFLCOPTER.

  16. #16

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I'll just touch on a few key points. there is no need to put all 3 points into judgements of the wise, even with 1/3 you still get 20% mana back on judgements. sure you dont give as much mana back to your group but i think it will be fine. Righteous Vengeance>>>>>> Fantacism(PVE TALENT) you lose alot of burst by not taking RV over Fantacism.

    imo the best pvp spec if you are trying to maximize dmg with pvp talents.
    Angrychaír - 80 Ret Pally
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz+Modan&n=Angrycha%C3%ADr
    Retribution: working as intended.

  17. #17

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nookius
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I'll just touch on a few key points. there is no need to put all 3 points into judgements of the wise, even with 1/3 you still get 20% mana back on judgements. sure you dont give as much mana back to your group but i think it will be fine. Righteous Vengeance>>>>>> Fantacism(PVE TALENT) you lose alot of burst by not taking RV over Fantacism.

    imo the best pvp spec if you are trying to maximize dmg with pvp talents.
    i'm guessing you can't read ...

    but 1/3 will give you a 33% chance on judgement to give 20% mana back ... might as well not get it if you're going to only get 1/3

  18. #18

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    I had a crazy idea about maybe pushing out a burst build?

    This would be it...

    Sure, no Divine Storm, but the potential burst from Reckoning, Crusader Strike (or a judgement) and Seal of Command looks pretty yummy to me...I'm probably not crazy enough to actually try it, but it looks nice from where I'm sitting right now. =P

  19. #19

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    People seem to be confused about what they want to focus on; imp RF, DG, and deflection are survivability talents which, imo, are nice but limit the actual purpose of a ret paladin which is to burst down your opponents as quickly as possible. If you want to survive in PvP, go prot with some holy and enjoy your hour long battles :P.

    Personally, I am considering making the following minor adjustments to some of the builds posted:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    I took 1 pt out of imp judgments for rotational purposes and so I could get the extra point in RV. Why anyone would even think about not taking crusade is beyond me. Vengeance is nice as well because the whole point of a ret pally in pvp is to crit and crit often; the more you crit the higher your burst damage goes and the faster you win . Fanaticism is nice but I think enough posts have shown that RV trumps Fanaticism in the long run for me to assume that my judgments will crit enough without the talent. E4E looks ok, but as an earlier post mentioned, with huge resil stacks, even if your opponent crits you for say 6K, that's only 1200 damage returned, which is nice but not worth the 2 points you could put somewhere else.

    My only question thus far is:

    Why do people continue to leave out SR? Has anyone run the calculations on beta to determine that 3% haste (Socomm now seems to scale with haste according to a newish post in this forum) is less dps than say 6% 2H weap damage (just a for instance, probably not the best example but it seems to be one that most people seem less inclined to take)? Just curious.

  20. #20

    Re: This will be the RetPvP cookie-cutter, right?

    I don’t agree with a lot of posts here and people have chosen very different builds.

    But rather than show what I myself had in mind there are a few things that I wonder if people think of.

    Compare pvp gear and pve gear at level 80. The pvp gear I have looked at have about half the crit chance on them. So it seems as if our crit chance will be a lot lower than today.

    Righteous Vengeance: It does not increase your damage with a critical hit with 25%. It increases the extra damage with 25%. So you will be doing 125% extra damage instead of 100%. In other words a 2k crit would do 2250 damage with this talent and not 2500. Does this change your choice?

    Eye for an eye does 20% instead of 30% damage. But it can still crit. I am not sure if it uses spellcrit or melee crit but I suspect that it is spellcrit. It was a long time since I last used it. This would make it crit more often in wotlk, making it better than before in that aspect. It now works on physical damage too. Perhaps some people forgot about it. Ofc we still have the problem with resilience.

    Judgements actually do nice damage now. Having more crits from them can be nice. It is not always you hit the target with the stun on either.

    The talent I mostly write this about is the Righteous Vengeance though. I am not saying that you should, or should not, take any of these talents. But did you think about that stuff? And if you did not, does it change anything for you?

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