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  1. #21

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Crusader strike does 110 procent weapondamage, in additione to its normal damage, the target is treated as a undead(or demon) for the next 4 seconds.
    This allows you to used the 3 attacks which we have who are limited to undead and demons only.

    Sweet <3, give me this !

  2. #22

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    I can't help thinking that while getting 10% haste from refreshing your judgement (for a holy pally) is nice, it's just not worth speccing into. You're still using the GCD to judge which probably takes away most of the functionality of it anyway. I'd spec into it if it did something like

    "Your judgment spells increase your casting and melee haste by 2/4/6/8/10% for 30 seconds. In addition the Global Cooldown activated by your Judgement spells is reduced by 20/40/60/80/100%."

    Definitely be worth it then.

  3. #23

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Resy
    Crusader Strike : An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage and burns 10-15% of your targets base mana.

    Problem solved
    of course someone in pvp armor would want a mana burn effect, you know something useless to pve, FUCK PVP and anything that has to do with it, how about an effect thats actually usefull

  4. #24

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Chrys,

    Thats kinda what i've been talking about. The haste only serves to make up for the gcd you use up. I think the talent should stay AND CS should refresh judgements. Why? 1.4 sec casts are nice but nothing to write home about.... and to be frank they only even exist to make up for the fact your using a gcd to refresh the judgement.

    If blizzard decided to make holy pally's judge to spice things up and give them something else to do, I personally feel its the wrong "something" to be doing.

    IF blizz left both the haste talent and returned CS back to its former self IE refreshing judgements it would allow your pally's freedom of spec. So if you KNOW you have a ret pally who has half a brain you dont need to waste those tp's and can use them elsewhere. If you dont, oh well no worry, you get the haste to allow you to judge anyway and still provide benefit.

    My last point will be simple.

    In the early tiers of raiding the extra judgement here or there probably wont be hard to sneak in and you wont really feel heat for taking that gcd to keep the raid at max buff's. However in the later tier of raiding missing one pivotal heal due to judgements will cause you and your guild to be up in arms about this. Healers generally have enough trouble on their hands keeping everyone alive and topped off. They REALLY dont need the extra trouble of having to change targets and fiddle with different mechanics in the middle of a boss attempt. The WORST thing that could happen is if there is a late game boss encounter that requires raid to stay at max range and have your pally's fiddling with max range positioning for judgement sniping.

    To my feeble mind its just an issue that serves no purpose and will likely cause unnecessary problems for raids. Generally the simpler the fight the better, when you give the average wower more than 1 thing to do his mind will collapse in on itself.... imagine what will happen when you tell healbots they have to actually mind their 2 minute buff/debuff while watching their tanks health, raid health, and their positioning. Calamity will ensue mark my words.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  5. #25

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    So, basically you want to relegate the holy t10 talent so that you can have an effect back onto your ret 41 point talent that was probably removed for a good reason?

    I agree that CS seems very lackluster atm and needs some flavor, but that's exactly what it should be. Flavor. Doesn't anyone else here find it interesting that EVERY paladin would love to use their undead/demon only abilities on any target? I already addressed this in another post but anyway, it won't happen. It would break the spec. You guys aren't the only ones here with abilities that only work on a particular type of enemy.

    Think about it for a second. You'd have a 10 yd AoE STUN that does a SHIT ton of damage, Fear, an extra instant, and tracking. You don't think that'd be ridiculously OP?

    Trust me I'd love CS to be more than just an ability that's there and damage being all it does, but think of something less Stupidly OP please.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that you will pick up CS ANYWAY. If you make CS refresh all judgments on the target there's NO reason for a holy paladin to pick up haste on judgments. Why bother when the entire talent is made worthless by another spec of the same class?

  6. #26

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysanthemum
    So, basically you want to relegate the holy t10 talent so that you can have an effect back onto your ret 41 point talent that was probably removed for a good reason?

    I agree that CS seems very lackluster atm and needs some flavor, but that's exactly what it should be. Flavor. Doesn't anyone else here find it interesting that EVERY paladin would love to use their undead/demon only abilities on any target? I already addressed this in another post but anyway, it won't happen. It would break the spec. You guys aren't the only ones here with abilities that only work on a particular type of enemy.

    Think about it for a second. You'd have a 10 yd AoE STUN that does a SHIT ton of damage, Fear, an extra instant, and tracking. You don't think that'd be ridiculously OP?

    Trust me I'd love CS to be more than just an ability that's there and damage being all it does, but think of something less Stupidly OP please.
    I hear you chrys, but tell me how returning the refreshing judgement breaks anything, how does it become op? Where is the break down? All I can see is it giving our pally healers one more OPTION in their healing. Some may like the 10% haste, some... like myself feel it sends the wrong messege and isnt good for healers to get in the habit of targetting bosses for continual judgements in a pve enviroment. So other than the option it brings (read class synergy) why shouldnt it refresh judgements?
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  7. #27

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakapoopoo
    Ok, give wars a bubble and u can have MS, deal?
    I didnt say i want MS. I just answered to a post with a flow logic. This one also funny, believe me bubble<<<<MS, dont overestimate 5 min CD

  8. #28

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Annaconda
    Hi al

    I have been a pally since i started playing wow when TBC just was launched.
    But now i got a mage which i lvl because i didn't get invites to group because they didn't want ret pally.
    But the new changes made me and proberly a lot of other pally's really happy. But what still sucks a bit is that our PvE dps is still not good enough (at least thats what i heard from buddy who is in beta).
    Thats why i got a idee to fix our damage output and also our CS which isn't worth the 41 point anymore.

    1)
    Crusader strike does 110 procent weapondamage, in additione to its normal damage it lets you use hammer of wrath even if targets has more then 20 procent health. This effect last for 15 seconds.
    this will let you do some more dps with the bosses, but proberly needs the cooldown of hammer of wrath reduced to be a nice improvement

    2)
    Crusader strike does 110 procent weapondamage, in additione to its normal damage, the target is treated as a undead(or demon) for the next 4 seconds.
    This allows you to used the 3 attacks which we have who are limited to undead and demons only.

    3)
    Crusader strike does 110 procent weapondamage, in additione to its normal damage, the target takes 5 procent more holy damage from you, this effect stacks 5 times and last 18 seconds.
    This effect could be less if its OP and also this effect works on your attacks so this is not a group debuff.

    My english is not that great so i am sorry for that, its also my first post so please be kind :P.
    [Blizzard]hi my fellow mage/paladin why you really think i read this forum when i dont even read wow-europe forums!!and i dont really care for your reasonable demands!for me all is a never ending QQ which i only read sometimes in my toilet when i finish my porn-magazines reading

  9. #29

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Munk
    I hear you chrys, but tell me how returning the refreshing judgement breaks anything, how does it become op? Where is the break down? All I can see is it giving our pally healers one more OPTION in their healing. Some may like the 10% haste, some... like myself feel it sends the wrong messege and isnt good for healers to get in the habit of targetting bosses for continual judgements in a pve enviroment. So other than the option it brings (read class synergy) why shouldnt it refresh judgements?
    Why do you think they made it so that JoW is no longer refreshed by your melee attacks? I think it's because it Ret and Prot paladins weren't having any mana issues at 80 or it wasn't a big enough one(in blizz's opinion). One of the things that Blizzard seems to be pressing with Raiding in WotLK is mana management. If CS refreshed all judgments on the target it would refresh JoW defeating the purpose of not allowing JoW to refresh on melee attacks.

    Also, you're not giving pally healers an option. You're taking one away as your relegating one nigh unto uselessness.

    On top of that, how much fun do you think it would be to just sit around and push on button for an entire raid? All the other healers got more things to do while healing, this would help Holy pally's (at least a little bit anyway) to have more to do while healing. Make it a little more difficult than pushing 1 button for 8 minutes.

  10. #30

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    So by allowing healadins freedom to spec how they wish... A) spec'd into judge/haste B) spec'd however the hell else they wanted to be is taking freedom from them?

    Correct me if im wrong but couldnt the healadin (if he wanted to) continue to judge to keep his haste buff even IF im already refreshing the judgements?

    I have not played PTR, I have not played beta and my knowlege of 80 ret mana management is beans but if its anything like live I will be begging for more mana as often as I can. It would boggle my mind to be able to have NO mana issues, especially with not being able to chain pot like I can in live.

    /shakes head... .and isnt that the point anyway? Judgements now last two minutes, and you recieve that haste buff for 30 seconds.... which means your healadins will be judging every 30 seconds if possible..... soooo either way it stays up, why not give them the option how they keep it up?
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  11. #31

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    It's a shame you haven't played the PTR ret. They don't seem to EVER run out of mana anymore due to the revamped seal/judge system. (Blizz basically cut the mana cost of your damage cycles by like 70% and gave you Vampiric touch AND 20% of your max mana whenever you judge.)

    As to Holy and refreshing judgments just for the haste; it eliminates the purpose of the base spell. Talents are supposed to improve abilities or add in new ones, not fundamentally alter them. The haste talent is meant as an additional benefit for applying and maintaining a judgment, one of the core abilities of a paladin. Imo, as long as you have only 2 paladins, you should have each pally with a judgment up.

  12. #32

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysanthemum
    It's a shame you haven't played the PTR ret. They don't seem to EVER run out of mana anymore due to the revamped seal/judge system. (Blizz basically cut the mana cost of your damage cycles by like 70% and gave you Vampiric touch AND 20% of your max mana whenever you judge.)
    /tear

    Maybe one day when my baby is born i'll be able to properly manage my time and get back into wow. /crosses fingers
    For the first 18 months of BC I held the "retardin" mantra until I decided that to be justified in my hatred for the vile spec I had to understand and play it. As a result ive got a "decently" geared retadin keeping up with good rogues, mages n locks in bt..... in a mix of t4/badge/heroic/za/and brutal gloves(still plenty of room for upgrades).

    Im sitting here droooling at the prospect of what a flat 30-40% dps increase would mean since in raids I have output as much as 1600 dps..... /misses wow.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  13. #33

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Hi again

    Didn't expect so many post in this short amount of time.
    But the idee behind my first suggestion was that every 3 CS we could use Hammer of Wrath once. This by making Hammer of wrath having a cooldown of about 15 seconds or 18 seconds.
    Think my 2de suggestion would make PvP player more happy then PvE thanks to the new CC we would get, But at least it would make me use those spells a lot more .
    And i also liked my 3de suggestion because it could help PvP and Soloing because of the CS cooldown most you can stack is 15 procent more Holy damage (which also means you suck because your mobs should have been died by now :P) it will only increase Raids and 5-mans instances.

    But a lot of people think CS is fine from what ik read in his topic, but the thing is: its our 41 point talent en to be honost our 31 point talent already sucks compared to others. I would be happy to just leave it like it is but make it a 31 point talent en make our 31 points talents cooldown more like 15 seconds ( but this will only make us beter pvp and still not good PvE class)

    Also the suggestion with MS or that lose 15 procent mana are more PvP effects which we dont need cause on that area we are very competitive.

    I also dont see how nerfing our fellow holy paladins would make us more beloved in raids. Think everbody going to hate us and send messages with what our QQ has accomplisht. It also wont increase our DPS output.

    BTW the 2de and 3de suggusion would also make us beter tanks since we would have more Threath thanks to increase holy damage :P:P.
    Main shaman: Shaman Alt Paladin: Paladin
    Alt lvl 73 mage: Mage Alt lvl 70 Death knight: Death Knight
    Random dungeon project: Druid Battleground project: Rogue
    Worgen project: Warlock Future alt: Hunter

  14. #34
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
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    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Annaconda
    Hi again

    Didn't expect so many post in this short amount of time.
    But the idee behind my first suggestion was that every 3 CS we could use Hammer of Wrath once. This by making Hammer of wrath having a cooldown of about 15 seconds or 18 seconds.
    That's clearly not completely OP'ed :

  15. #35

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    CS is fine?
    storm does more dmg on single target than CS over 5min dura. vote for CS become holy dmg! =)

  16. #36

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Why would you want that?

    Judgements are already a lot of spell dmg. I do not know if DS is spell or melee but Ive got a hunch its spell dmg. Not every boss can be damaged by spells like they can physical. I would never want to slant more of our dmg spell than necessary.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  17. #37
    LordSidious
    Guest

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakapoopoo
    Ok, give wars a bubble and u can have MS, deal?
    We also want intercept, and anti-fear ability.

  18. #38

    Re: New Crusader Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by LordSidious
    We also want intercept, and anti-fear ability.
    Meh if we are indeed able to burst almost any class down inside our 5 sec HoJ then I dont see why we need either an anti-fear or an intercept.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

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