Thread: SoCom and Haste

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  1. #1

    SoCom and Haste

    So I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they might be changing SoC that it would scale with haste in wotlk. I wanted to do some napkin math for comparing SoC and SoB with the glyphs and wanted to confirm this before going on. Anyone know?

  2. #2

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    i think it was just changed to 50% proc rate now instead of 7ppm or wherever it was, so yeah it'll scale now.

  3. #3

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    If it were just a 50% proc rate wouldn't that make faster 2handed weapons, regardless of haste, better? I bet it works more like how OoC works now. It's based off a PPM, but the PPM increases with haste. (basically, SoCom now has X PPM and i have y speed weapon so i get z% proc chance. The game now applies haste to your weapon speed and only takes into account your base weapon speed to determine the proc chance instead of current weapon speed.)

  4. #4

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    So if so, then assuming you at least start with a slow weapon, say 3.6 or slower, the SoC glyph would seem to increase your dps to be statistically higher than SoB/SoM. You would have a proc chance of over 50% and be doing double the weapon based damage of SoB's 100% chance. I guess then, it would just depend on SoB making that up through haste or it's higher judgement damage.

    Here's to SoC still being good. I hope.

  5. #5

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    The glyph of SoCom probably increases the base PPM that SoCom applies to your weapon. That's a bit unclear, let me clarify. Glyph of SoCom won't increase your proc CHANCE by 20%, but increases the FREQUENCY of your procs by 20%. The same applies for glyphs that increase the amount of damage a target takes before a CC will break.

  6. #6

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    What I understood the glyph to do was increase your procs by 20%. So instead of 7 it would be 8.4

    Better put, it would go from each a 44.33 chance to get a SoC proc on each swing (with a 3.8 weapon) to a 53.2% chance. Thus what I said about the proc rate exceeding 50% and balancing out with/exceeding SoB's half dmg but 100% proc rate.

  7. #7

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    What Basutai said makes perfect sense, if SoC proc chance is calculated before haste then it helps a lot, it actually makes SoC scale better then it does on live, with the glyph it might actually become viable too.

    I also heard that SoC got changed from 7 PPM to 9 PPM (without the glyph of course), is it true or just an unconfirmed rumor?

  8. #8

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    No, but it's 8.4 with the glyph I believe.

  9. #9

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Is there an hide CD on SoCom's proc ?

  10. #10

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Zackarias
    Is there an hide CD on SoCom's proc ?
    no.

  11. #11

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhard
    no.
    Actually there is. It's probably around 1 second and stops SoC from chainproccing off instants as they changed Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm to proc Seals now.
    Hìdden on EU-Blackrock

  12. #12

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Quote Originally Posted by GT4
    Actually there is. It's probably around 1 second and stops SoC from chainproccing off instants as they changed Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm to proc Seals now.
    interesting, didn't know that yet.

  13. #13

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Admuntour
    I also heard that SoC got changed from 7 PPM to 9 PPM (without the glyph of course), is it true or just an unconfirmed rumor?
    Blizzard would probably state this change in the patchnotes because of it's majorness or atleast create a post on the forums about it. For now I think we can safely assume the PPM value has not been changed.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  14. #14

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    As an addition to Basutai's post the calculation the client uses for calculating your Seal of Command proc chance is;

    PPM / (60 / hasted weapon speed).

    An actual example would be;

    8.4 / (60 / 3.20) = 0,42666666666666666666666666666667 = 42,66% proc chance.


    Keep in mind that the PPM value for Seal of Command is 7 or 8.4 with the Glyph of Seal of Command.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  15. #15

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Not anymore, it uses the pre-haste speed to calculate proc % now.

  16. #16

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Gribble
    Not anymore, it uses the pre-haste speed to calculate proc % now.
    Not anymore? Seal of Command has never worked with Haste.

    Secondly, it does seem to in Wrath of the Lich King;

    I did another SoC haste test on the PTR, since my original test used Judgements and i'm not sure if Judgements proc'd seals then.

    331 Haste rating (+20.99% haste), Torch of the Damned (3.8 AS), Glyph of SoC (8.4 PPM)

    400 swings
    219 SoC procs

    (Recount screenie available on request)

    219/400 = 54.8% effective proc chance


    Haste Scales Doesn't
    %chance 53.20% 43.97%
    Swings 400 400
    SD 9.98 9.93
    +2 SD 232.8 195.7
    Expect 212.8 175.9
    -2 SD 192.8 156.0

    Haste Scaling predicts 193~233 SoC Procs.
    No Haste Scaling predicts 156~196 SoC Procs.
    Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=9


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  17. #17

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    There is this post in mmo-blue tracker about a warrior PPM skill scaling with haste
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/10/9336...or-update.html

    Furious Attacks changed to use PPM (procs per minute) to make it trigger at the same rate regardless of weapon speed. Note that dual-wielding and haste still improve your chances.

    Since blizzard usually works on all-or-nothing policies ( that is, either all ppm skill scale with haster, or no one scales with haste ) I'd assume now all the class skills basd on PPM scale with haste, including SOC.

  18. #18

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljerico
    There is this post in mmo-blue tracker about a warrior PPM skill scaling with haste
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/10/9336...or-update.html

    Furious Attacks changed to use PPM (procs per minute) to make it trigger at the same rate regardless of weapon speed. Note that dual-wielding and haste still improve your chances.

    Since blizzard usually works on all-or-nothing policies ( that is, either all ppm skill scale with haster, or no one scales with haste ) I'd assume now all the class skills basd on PPM scale with haste, including SOC.
    Sound logic here sir. Since OoC and Furious Attacks were changed to work the same way (though it doesn't proc off specials like SoCom does [? need confirmation on that] now.) it'd make sense that all procs work this way now.

  19. #19

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    If SoC scales with haste now, does this make swift retribution a more viable/required talent for PvP?

  20. #20

    Re: SoCom and Haste

    Good question Aloysius. Basutai would be the person to ask about the math (how much dps 1% haste is worth). But it is fairly easy to spec for Swift Ret without losing anything vital to pvp.

    For example: 0/18/53

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