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  1. #1
    I am Murloc!
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    Mar 2008
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    5,274

    (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    So the new build is out, and holy mother of goats, the inner fire change smells of win.

    The build I would use is a 12/0/59 build

    Discipline:

    Regulare disciplin as it looks at level 70. With the exception of it's not viable to get improved fortitude anymore, forcing all the holy priests to buff, yay!

    Shadow:

    Now we got the points for 2/2 Mind Melt, and 2/2 Improved VE, along with the other key talents such as Veiled Shadows, Twisted Faith, Dispersion, Improved Shadowform, and Pain and Suffering.

    So far tests have shown that 2/3 Pain and Suffering is enough, giving us a extra point for Inner Focus , a ability one would macro combine with Devouring Plague (that all priests got now).

    It's looking really awesome now. But questions arise, will it be possible to play without Meditation in a world of Potion Sickness?

  2. #2

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds


    Why macro Inner focus and Devouring plague? DP has had a massive reduction in cost and cooldown.

    I would now be macro'ing IF/Mind blast.

    No way we live without meditation in my opinion, on PTR my regen is too sucky without it, I want it back.

    In my opinion:



    Take 3 out of focussed mind. Put them in meditation.

    Now do the maths, IF on a mind blast saves x mana per 3 mins, 5% cost reduction of flay and blast saves y mana in 3 mins. Decide which is better, IF or a point in focussed mind.

    Not sure about 2 in pain and suffering - again PTR testing, I lost SWP on target dummies a couple of times a fight, especially when dispersion was used. Plus 10% lashback reduction is goood. Perhaps 1 less in affinity and into P&S.

    Actually - for certain I would take 1 out of improved shield and move that to P&S


    Generally, yes though.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...12125152301351

    is more where I would start, moving points from affinity to focussed mind as I established how bad threat is.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Yeah, something like this then:

    13/0/58

    2 points in Shadow Weaving should be enough.

  4. #4

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Linking IF to MB for higher crit chance (and Imp Spirit Tap) would be a fantastic idea IMO.

    Im not 100% sold on Imp Shadow form for PVE just yet... it would need to depend on how much AOE damage I see in more end game raiding. I've done Naxx on beta w/o it and haven't really seen too too much pushback.... for farming/leveling ohyeah for sure.... pve raiding, im not 100% sold yet. Pulling those points out for meditation might be quite helpful.

    Also, I've yet to test it... IF/MF... does it increase the crit chance for ALL ticks of MF, or just the first.... I'll have to see.

  5. #5

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...10325150301351

    This build uses what I think are just the necessary points. The 2/2 Imp Fort I chose since I don't think Imp VE or Imp Shadow Form are as much of a benefactor. Maybe swap the points for Imp VE but I think that Imp Shadow Form is more of a PvP talent. I also agree that 2/3 Shadow Weaving is more than enough. Someone posted a thread a few days back about how 2/3 is 66% chance but in that 15 seconds you cast 7 spells which makes like a 98% chance to refresh over the course of the 15 seconds.

    With Inner Focus I can agree to a point with using it in conjunction with MB but I think if you do a normal rotation of VT (Inner Focus) SWP you get more of a benefit off the start. Next time IF is up, Mind Blast should be the most costly spell considering SWP should never drop off a single target boss. Mind Sear is also more base mana so IF + MS is a better combo for group targets. Again, this is all situational and I do agree IF + MB is the best choice for it on single target.

  6. #6

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    this is the ultimate pve spacce http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...12125152301351 ;D


    //Oldschool Raiding FTW!!\\

  7. #7

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Divorn
    Imp VE? VE is just unnecessary aggro. Save those 2 points and put them into mana reduction/Focused Mind

  8. #8

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Again, I agree Imp VE is pointless. And someone please enlighten me as to why Imp Shadow Form is so good in a PvE build.

  9. #9

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by noz3r0
    Again, I agree Imp VE is pointless. And someone please enlighten me as to why Imp Shadow Form is so good in a PvE build.
    Imp VE.... uneeded aggro. Period, Its not for helping the tank healers.

    For leveling, sure I can see it.... grinding sure I can see it.
    PVE its going to be very situational.... for dungeons that have a lot of aoe damage, for sure... but as a standard "must have" no. Id rather pull out of Imp SF and put the points deeper into Disc for efficiency.

  10. #10

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Then you can take the build I posted earlier and move the 2 points in Imp Fort (which I just put there) in place of Imp VE. Regardless, I stand firm on the point that Imp Shadow Form is worthless in PvE.

    Edit: I correct that last sentence. Worthless in a PvE raid environment.

  11. #11

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    Ask your holy priests if they would like to buff fort every wipe or would like (assuming 2500 dps) 250 healing per second on all the main tanks.
    I was healing spec'd from day 1 of WoW, raided every zone pre BC and TBC. After the Disc/holy changes I am planning on going Shadow. I state this because i "understand what the healing priests go through"

    I stand by my point, VE is completely unnecessary aggro. Shadow has dropped from a supplementary role, to a dps role. And more aggro equals less dps....

  12. #12

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by derevka
    I was healing spec'd from day 1 of WoW, raided every zone pre BC and TBC. After the Disc/holy changes I am planning on going Shadow. I state this because i "understand what the healing priests go through"

    I stand by my point, VE is completely unnecessary aggro. Shadow has dropped from a supplementary role, to a dps role. And more aggro equals less dps....
    Well seeing as getting agro is not an issue from pretty much any tank at present - imp VE is a nice supplement to set of tools.

    Sure you might be gravitating towards out and out dps'er but with VE utility is nice.

    As said - agro/threat is ONLY unneeded where you are pushing the threat barrier with your tank. As it stands with how all tank threat scales (no more +threat flat non-scaline-PoS modifiers to abilities) you wont even be near the tank threat wise. Ergo, take the talent.

  13. #13

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    True, I haven't followed the tanking talents. I don't play a Warrior and I heal on my Paladin. If they are doing that much more threat in conjunction with our innate 30% from Shadow Form, Imp VE seems like the most beneficial of the 3 choices listed by Eloro.

  14. #14

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    when they won t change the talents i ll specc like

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...10325150301350

    at 80.

    maybe putting points from mental agility to shadow affinity, depends on threat but i doubt it ll be a problem

  15. #15

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    ^
    This!

    Having 2/3 in P&S won't help really, since personally I won't even be using SWD in my rotation anymore. It's dangerous with the crit changes and it doesn't really bring any extra dps anymore. 66% chance to refresh SW:P is easily enough, since you will cast quite a few Mind Flays in 20 seconds.

    Same with Shadow Weaving, 66% is enough.

    About Imp VE... I see no reason why you would not take it with the tanking changes. In heavy aoe fights(I'm expecting there will be many of those) having Imp VE is great. The extra healing can save a big load of mana for the healers in fights with constant aoe.

    Lastly: if you have no aggro problems you might want to take one point from Shadow Affinity and put that point into Inner Focus/Shadow Weaving/P&S or whatever. Having a free high crit % MB every once in a while doesn't sound too bad, but I'd rather not sacrifice anything for it.

  16. #16

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by noz3r0
    True, I haven't followed the tanking talents. I don't play a Warrior and I heal on my Paladin. If they are doing that much more threat in conjunction with our innate 30% from Shadow Form, Imp VE seems like the most beneficial of the 3 choices listed by Eloro.
    Keep in mind its a % reduction in your threat and a % increase in theres, its not additive. So lets say you can do X TPS and your Tank can do Y TPS. You are really doing 0.7*X TPS, and the tank is doing 1.3*Y TPS. Those don't equal a 60% delta. While yes, watching aggro wont be as much of a concern, adding on, IMO, unneeded TPS to a DPS class could bridge that gap.

  17. #17

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    "That looks interesting...please tell me which of your spells benefit from mental agility? O wait..."

    @eloro: sw d and devouring plague(look at the manacost) would be the answer aswell as sw p (only once but still ;P ) i also said that the points could be placed in shadow affinity. you could ve said where the points should be because i dont see any good pve talent anymore to put them into, i got anything for pve from shadow tree, holy is unimportant so...? ^^
    sry for bad english :P

  18. #18
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    Quote Originally Posted by noz3r0
    Again, I agree Imp VE is pointless. And someone please enlighten me as to why Imp Shadow Form is so good in a PvE build.
    If you try do any bosses after Karazhan you'll realise a nice little thing called "Spell Pushback".

    Also, Imp. VE is awesome. Try M'uru with 3 spriests all with VE, that makes it SO MUCH EASIER for the healers you can't belive it.

    Aggro issues is for shit tanks. I don't have more aggro issues with imp. VE.

    I just tried to think of bosses where imp shadowform would help I came up with
    A few more: Naj'entus, Gurtogg Bloodboil, Reliquary of Souls, M'uru (pre. nerf)

    Others where it could help a little: Kalecgos, Felmyst, Mother Sharazh, Teron Gorefiend.

    Not to mention, the snare removing with fade would be incredible win for following bosses:

    Shade of Aran, Lady Vashj, Hyjal Summit

    ... I'm sure I'm forgetting a few as well.

  19. #19
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    What I'm seeing here is alot of experience issues for you priests.

    People recomending 4/5 Mind Blast, means they have zero experience with spellhaste in later content. But later content is to become initinal content !

    It's very important that you look at the talent from a SWP gear level, and experience level, rather than Karazhan level. Because it's designed to start from there. Mechanical wise, that is.

    I wish to make sure everybody understand how important spellhaste is, and going to be for us.

  20. #20

    Re: (Shadow) Build 9014 - Lets talk talent PvE builds

    I personally find that if you take into account the possible movement required in many fights, 66% chances on weaving and P&S are too low. If the timings go bad you could lose a whole stack and be throughly frustrated.

    On top of that, there was an article I read somewhere claiming the RNG was not set to be truly random - but with the extremely implausible happening more often than it statistically should.

    i.e. 3-4 crushings in a row on a druid.

    I saw no proof - but I saw the logic behind blizzard doing it (everyone likes to get a lucky streak.....).

    Either way, I would want 100% on both.

    I would never not have pushback reduction given the choice. Since by my maths it may well save you a tick of mind flay OR shave .7 seconds off a cast time.

    Dispersion is a must have. Mana regen + damage reduction will have multiple situational uses. At worst it is a poor evocation. Far far better than wanding if it goes that wrong (but post combat rez it often does).

    Imp VE has no downside, apart from threat, which is marginalised by good tanks and points in shadow affinity.

    I go here:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...12125152301351


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