JotW: buffed or nerfed?

[Jasunizer]

Its actually a nerf and here is the reason.

-A decent holy pala would never goin to use it anyway.... its deep enough that if u get it you are RETRI and not holy.

-Making it based on BASE mana it means that its not getting any benefits from any gear changes.

Here ppl gonna say that Retri gear has not INT on it, but that is childish. And its childish cause noone forced you to wear Retri gear. I mean you good get 4/5 retri gear and all other pieces from Holy set, so INT +.

But again thats what Blizz found as an exploit so it became based on BASE mana.

so good QQ

[mud_lime]

lol the only one that is QQ is you all outer in the thread say its a buff at lvl 80

[Jasunizer]

lol the only one that is QQ is you all outer in the thread say its a buff at lvl 80

Not gonna QQ for another class just want to inform you that it:

WAS WAS WAS WAS BUFF but it has gone like

IS IS IS IS IS NERF

happy now? its a nerf

[Moruk]

Here ppl gonna say that Retri gear has not INT on it, but that is childish. And its childish cause noone forced you to wear Retri gear. I mean you good get 4/5 retri gear and all other pieces from Holy set, so INT +.

Why in almighty hell would a Ret Pally wear Holy gear to get more mana back, when they had near-limitless mana as it was? It makes no sense to gimp your DPS like that for the sake of a bit of mana return, especially when JotW, in its current form, is over 700-800 Mp5, not including Replenishment, assuming you're judging every 8 seconds.

It's a buff.

[warlock_alt]

The mana cost of spells does not scale with gear. It's a well deserved 'nerf'. Having mana return and throughput scale with gear just makes them scale in a way that's much harder to balance.

[Kenark]

i LOVE how blizz handles my pally (irony incl.)
i mean they buff ret and prot manaregen (when i never ran out of mana retting or protting) and nerf the manaregen for holy pallis (who, as we all know have sooo much manareg anyways with 60% illu, basicly 0mp5 and that nice talent which now makes you heal 0)
(still some sarcasme incl.) :

[Jasunizer]

The thing is that arena was never about DPS. Nuking teams where really few in the high brackets. Its all about mana pool and regen mechanics. So whats better?

A full STR/Crit% pala without mana

or a good STR/Crit% WITH mana?

think again.. its just maths

[topfer]

Hmm, that's pretty good. Especially when you consider that in a raid situation you'll have Mana Spring / Tide, Arcane Int (giving more mana from Replenishment), Divine Plea, etc, you could feasibly run a full rotation including Consecrate in WotLK.

Water totems aren't raid wide, just fyi.

[Moruk]

The thing is that arena was never about DPS. Nuking teams where really few in the high brackets. Its all about mana pool and regen mechanics. So whats better?

A full STR/Crit% pala without mana

or a good STR/Crit% WITH mana?

think again.. its just maths

Yeah, you're right. Stacking Holy gear and doing no damage as a burst class is way better than the current 1500 mana per cast JotW is now.

[Moruk]

Water totems aren't raid wide, just fyi.

They aren't? o_O

Riiight. =/

[Admuntour]

I have to disagree with a couple of posters saying that,even though retri has no int on gear, base mana=total mana for retries.
Paladins still have the intellect they get from leveling up, like you know, you leveled up you gained 1 talent point, 1 strength 1 intel, that is probably why they changed the proportions to from 20% to 33% to balance it out I think, but fully raid buffed, with motw, kings and arcane intellect it will probably be a nerf.
I'm not complaining though, fully raid buffed and with judgment on the boss I have never gone out of mana on Brutallus, or even Illidan, JoTW+ replenishment and the improved judgment of wisdom is probably enough to guarantee that I can spam not only my old rotation but also divine storm, consecrate and hammer of wrath, at level 80 we can even use divine plea every minute since it doesn't affect damage output and we are unlikely to heal at all.

[Moruk]

Paladins still have the intellect they get from leveling up, like you know, you leveled up you gained 1 talent point, 1 strength 1 intel, that is probably why they changed the proportions to from 20% to 33% to balance it out I think,

...otherwise referred to as a Paladin's "base mana".

*Edit*

..nevermind, apparently I'm the one that's confused. =/

[Bewbslól]

Its actually a nerf and here is the reason.

-A decent holy pala would never goin to use it anyway.... its deep enough that if u get it you are RETRI and not holy.

-Making it based on BASE mana it means that its not getting any benefits from any gear changes.

Here ppl gonna say that Retri gear has not INT on it, but that is childish. And its childish cause noone forced you to wear Retri gear. I mean you good get 4/5 retri gear and all other pieces from Holy set, so INT +.

But again thats what Blizz found as an exploit so it became based on BASE mana.

so good QQ

WHAT?!?!?

I see it as a buff. 'Nuff said.

[Applegarth]

It is a MASSIVE buff.

fuck scaling, having it this way means that you're:
a) able to have just as much regen STARTING OUT as in full epics
b) getting 400 MORE mana than it previously was at 80.

WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE = WINNER = MORE MANA AT 80 THAN BEFORE =

Speaking from having actually tested it, mister ASSumption, it performs much better than it did previously.

accept it, or go and hide under a bridge.

YAY

get em Basutai!

[Crispybacon]

Buff for ret, nerf for holy pvp. Creative move on blizzard's part to eliminate another potential spec for pally healers, but on the same note low blow..

[Gomexus]

I have no interest in doing the numbers to see what comes out on top, but it's very possible to be crowd controlled for a large portion of Shamanistic Rage, so I think I'd rather have my Wise Judgements.

JotW+Replenishment is way better than SR....

With JotW you are guaranteed 1450mana when you cast...even if the judgement is resisted...add in replenishment and you get a decent amount of mana back.

SR on the otherhand is on a 2 min CD (that's 15 judgements btw) and although it can return a full mana bar...mobility issues arise as do miss/dodge/parry's.

In terms of raw return power I would wager that on a 2min timeline Shaman may be able to get 8k-10k mana at lvl 80 by landing every hit and getting a decent proc rate...whereas pally's can get 21,750 in 2mins with JotW and that's not including Replenishment.

[Lexan]

personally i think it's a buff since the mana regen will be normalised so techically speaking you can now manage your mana regen more effectivly know exacly how much you'll get back as such you can then actually make a dps rotaion not only around GCD's but also around mana use.

[mightus]

Base mana at 80 = 4394 * .33 = 1450
With the old talents you would need 5* 1450 or 7250 mana for the old Jotw to be better

If you have more than 7250 mana it is a nerf at 80.
If you have 7250 mana you will see no difference.
If you have less than 7250 mana it is a buff.

So unbuffed the new talent is probably better. Raid Buffed it is probably slightly worse.

[Melanctha]

It is a MASSIVE buff.

fuck scaling, having it this way means that you're:
a) able to have just as much regen STARTING OUT as in full epics
b) getting 400 MORE mana than it previously was at 80.


Speaking from having actually tested it, mister ASSumption, it performs much better than it did previously.

accept it, or go and hide under a bridge.

QFT

this is an awesome buff,
wasnt even expecting it, considering my mana at 70 before this build seems limitless. but i guess it was to fix things at 80.
either way, this is a massive improvement, and should be welcomed by any ret.

(p.s sorry had to remove your moving sig for tidiness batsutai XD)

[BREWBIZZLE]

Judgement of the Wise has been changed to grant you 33% of your base mana instead of 20% of your maximum mana.
is this a nerf or a buff to JotW? the number is bigger, but now it is base mana instead of maximum mana? are rets gonna go back to having mana issues or is this an improvement?

IMHO it was to keep the shockadins from getting 20% back froma 15k mana pool i.e. 3000 mana