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  1. #21

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    That's awesome. A new ability that in order to be used without drastically penalizing yourself, needs to be clicked off right away.

    :-\

  2. #22

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Go go Flash spam.....

    We don't need this skill or mana pots or anything to spam flash, and its always been like that.

    Raiding wise you didn't need holy light all the way up to Sunwell(maybe a few fights in BT when tanks still had crap gear)

    And that's why we ll be fine at start of expansion

  3. #23

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lepa
    Go go Flash spam.....

    We don't need this skill or mana pots or anything to spam flash, and its always been like that.

    Raiding wise you didn't need holy light all the way up to Sunwell(maybe a few fights in BT when tanks still had crap gear)

    And that's why we ll be fine at start of expansion
    I would love to see you heal the Malygos MT with FoL. Oh no, I wouldn't, because it would be simply pathetic.

  4. #24
    yiptastic
    Guest

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by meliancill
    ok the problem i see with this is as follows...


    1. .

    A - arena. if you use this in arena you better hope to god your partner can hold out for 15 seconds untill you can heal agen. and agenst a 2v2 with burst like rogues / mages. this would be imposible. even if they were playing somthing with slow burst like a lock / healer 15 seconds in arena with no heals is a long time.

    B- raiding. in raiding if i was holy i would ONLY use this between pulls to regen what little mana i used. it would be usless on boss fights unless your doing farming runs like a full group of t5 players runing cara with 2 healers and you know your other healer can handle 15 seconds alone. however in that case you going oom as t5+ in kara on a boss fight means your guild needs to find a new healer.
    or you could let him hold on for about 10 sec, judge wisdom, take away that buff on you and cast heal...

    very gay, but it can work.

    I still hope they can add an improvement to this spell in deep holy. something like:
    reduces the healing reduction effect by 33/66/99% and increasing the duration by 1/1.5/2 minutes.

  5. #25

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    You are missing the whole point of this spell, this isnt an evocation for holy paladins to use while healings (it would have been chanelled).

    This is simply the response to druids enrage and warriors bloodrage for protection paladins.

    With 1 min CD it gives exactly the same effects of those spells, plus it would be imbalanced for a healer to get an evocation on 1min CD usable in combat, would mean 0 chance to go oom.

    So this spell is something useful when prot paladins are out of mana and they need some to tank or to pull, cause like warriors and druids paladins will get mana back while fighting tnx to hlgins (wars and druids get rage while fighting, paladins get mana while healed). A prot paladin without mana cant even pull a new mob.

    Holy paladins got different ways to keep their mana up in their talents, not counting the high spirit from gear. Prot paladins will have almost no int on gear cause of the new "take all the warrior tanking gear" philosophy.

  6. #26

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by breath
    You are missing the whole point of this spell, this isnt an evocation for holy paladins to use while healings (it would have been chanelled).

    This is simply the response to druids enrage and warriors bloodrage for protection paladins.
    i see that. then put it on 5min cd and add a -2/4min cd reduce in a mandatory deep-prot talent
    Greetings Undead. Wonderful day to be alive, isn't it?

  7. #27

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenark
    i see that. then put it on 5min cd and add a -2/4min cd reduce in a mandatory deep-prot talent
    Why that?

    The problem with that spell could only be that could transform a holy paladin in a infinite mana healer, so they just remove the hlg capability of the spell, its never a good thing to insert in a tree something that you know every player will need.

    As far as i have seen/tried now as now holy paladins dont have any mana problem, with that they will just get oom immunity.

  8. #28

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Well if it's made for retri and prot pally's why put it in the holy tree?
    -The world has moved on-

  9. #29

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    I really have to say, this is just terrible, really terrible.
    When a new spell is out you want it to be useful for all specs, or at least not have any penalty.
    If you look at all the other classes, the abilities they get all give either new tactical choice or new synergies, mages get frostfire bolt that helps on those immunity bosses and really adds variety to their play stile.
    Druids get savage roar to help them close the gap and become viable DPS, nourish gives them more variety on healing and synergy with their other hots.
    Hunters get 2 new abilities to help them stay at range and kite, really helping in PVP and Kill shot will also be awesome.
    And those are just some examples.
    Now divine plea even though its nice for ret and prot paladins its just terrible for holy paladins, and even if you communicate with your other healer to get more healing on the tank to compensate for those 15 seconds you aren't healing, its still a very big hassle, and people could still die, like on Brutallus for example, if you pull a healing from burn to the tank you might lose a burn target, if you pull a raid healer to heal the tank you might lose someone from meteor slash.

  10. #30

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Breath, I can see your point. Mana issues are one of the more frustrating parts of playing a prot paladin definitely, and the 1 min CD makes a bit more sense looking at it from a prot perspective. When they first announced divine plea, it was CHANNELED, which kind of struck it out in my mind as a prot spell, but it seems they've reworked it significantly. I'd even say that the way they're wording the spell... it kinda feels thrown together, tbh. I'm willing to bet that raid wide mana regen looked TOO good, and so a spell they originally intended for healers got changed to benefit tanks. I DO have to point out that holy paladins aren't going to be getting much spirit from their gear, though. :P

    I think most holy paladins were concerned about how we're not going to be able to chain-pot anymore, which frankly was a huge part of our regen, since our passive mana regen is terrible. With the new raid wide buffs, I don't think it will be quite the issue it was in TBC, but it's still something to consider... with the alchemy trinket equipped a mana pot is nearly a third of my mana pool.

  11. #31
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Admuntour
    I really have to say, this is just terrible, really terrible.
    When a new spell is out you want it to be useful for all specs, or at least not have any penalty.
    If you look at all the other classes, the abilities they get all give either new tactical choice or new synergies, mages get frostfire bolt that helps on those immunity bosses and really adds variety to their play stile.
    Druids get savage roar to help them close the gap and become viable DPS, nourish gives them more variety on healing and synergy with their other hots.
    Hunters get 2 new abilities to help them stay at range and kite, really helping in PVP and Kill shot will also be awesome.
    And those are just some examples.
    Now divine plea even though its nice for ret and prot paladins its just terrible for holy paladins, and even if you communicate with your other healer to get more healing on the tank to compensate for those 15 seconds you aren't healing, its still a very big hassle, and people could still die, like on Brutallus for example, if you pull a healing from burn to the tank you might lose a burn target, if you pull a raid healer to heal the tank you might lose someone from meteor slash.
    Bull shit all abilites should be used by everyone.

    1) We are ahybrid class, and unless all the ret and prot paladins want to go holy, holy can sit back and QQ, this is not ur ability it is to solve our mana issues, and it does so.

    2) Sacred Shield is your new pvp holy talent with the crit flash of light, need I say more.

    3) To answer everyone, holy light is the new main cast spell, because there is no more down ranking.

    4) Look at the glyphs for flash of light and holy light, and tell me if you do not see a pattern. Paladins got a lot of what they want but looks like we are glyphing for it.

    On a side note, look at Druids, you do not see a lot of resto, feral, and balance druids using the same abilities that they all have, so I would say learn to deal with not everything is to be used.

    5) Quit QQing, this is a grinding talent too, if you are lvling to 80 this talent will cut down time out greatly, Have all of yall paladins been too blind to see that?

    Holy is scared about Becaon of Light, well you got a big buff to JotPure, and now you can take the extra time to judge light, because for 1min you get 10percent haste, and the extra healing from it will keep the party topped up. And in 25mans use it at parts where its damage intensive on the paladin, and besides with the new glyphs for Seal of light and wisdom you should keep a seal up.

    Sorry but it was cool before its now moe for ret and prot (JUST LIKE THE SHEATH OF LIGHT CHANGE) it is not meant for holy. And if it is a buff YOU CAN MAKE A CANCEL BUFF MACRO.

    second if you oom, and you have any tank, TELL THEM TO DIVINE PROTECT, SHIELD WALL, FREENZY, OR whatever the DK dmg reduction ability (the strongest of them all is) and that can last for a bit.

    Look at this, holy paladins should not oom on single pack trash pulls as long as dps doesn not pull agro, if they do (thats a whole other issue). So only on the 2-3-4 bosses will this be used and by then each team these shield walls will be up. and in 1 raid now Last stand and LoH should all be up.

    Divine please, 10seconds, LoH(omg if its glyphed) and keep going. normal heals.

    I ranted, yea, but it happens.

  12. #32
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Difference between this and evocate; We can move when this is cast. Not been a channeled spell for a few builds now. And obviously the much shorter cooldown.
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  13. #33

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Sure, we can move... but we can't do our job the raid brings us for - keeping people alive - for FIFTEEN SECONDS, so I'd FAR rather have it shorter but channeled, like an evocate. The much shorter cooldown just allows us to ask ourselves how many times we want to be worthless during a fight.

    Actually, I think I've gotten my answer, which is that divine plea is now a prot paladin's way of getting mana back when nothing's hitting you, like an warrior's bloodrage. It's only situationally good for holy paladins, and I can see some times where I'd be able to use it as holy. But not often. As far as having it talented for prot, ask yourselves: Would you rather have the ability, and choose not to use it, or not have it altogether as holy? I would think the answer would be obvious. :P

  14. #34

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenark
    i see that. then put it on 5min cd and add a -2/4min cd reduce in a mandatory deep-prot talent
    Yes, please add more mandatory talents to the Protection tree, we don't have enough of them.

  15. #35

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Things like "every spell is every spec" arent true, a resto druid doesnt need enrage, so its like divine plea, they can use it but is a lot less useful for them than for prot paladins, if you keep comparing it to evocate you will always end wrong.

    <this isnt a spell to keep holy paladins mana up while healing> the prev 50% debuff was a tip, the 100% actual debuff is a confirmation
    surely any spec can use it, but its not so usefull for a holy paladin in combat.

    This is cause the spell has been done to solve another problem that: PROT PALADINS downtime between pulls, or Prot paladins problems when they have pratically no mana and a pull is started.

    Begin to compare this spell to Enrage and Bloodrage and you will see through it.

    Holy paladins dont have mana problems atm, they hardly go oom at all so adding a spell to increase their mana regen would be a suicide for the fun part of the mana management.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjanson
    Breath, I can see your point. Mana issues are one of the more frustrating parts of playing a prot paladin definitely, and the 1 min CD makes a bit more sense looking at it from a prot perspective. When they first announced divine plea, it was CHANNELED, which kind of struck it out in my mind as a prot spell, but it seems they've reworked it significantly. I'd even say that the way they're wording the spell... it kinda feels thrown together, tbh. I'm willing to bet that raid wide mana regen looked TOO good, and so a spell they originally intended for healers got changed to benefit tanks. I DO have to point out that holy paladins aren't going to be getting much spirit from their gear, though. :P

    I think most holy paladins were concerned about how we're not going to be able to chain-pot anymore, which frankly was a huge part of our regen, since our passive mana regen is terrible. With the new raid wide buffs, I don't think it will be quite the issue it was in TBC, but it's still something to consider... with the alchemy trinket equipped a mana pot is nearly a third of my mana pool.
    in group/raid mana regen isnt a problem, maybe atm the mana regen is too good, so really i can't see why a holy paladin would need this spell in a group, plus a spell like this need a negative effect, the mage has 100% less dmg from it cause he cant move, plus he cant move, so you actually get the same thing just think that is channeled and u cant do anything while doing it, but it has 1 min CD, that is imba, really 25% mana everi 1 min is really great, you dont have any chance at all to go oom while exping, and so on....

  16. #36

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Why not make the mana regen back to 50% and channeled? The first set up for it sucked, and it is WAAAAY better than what it is now. Currently it has gone from nearly useless, to completely useless.

    Paladin - "Oh shit! This is a hard fight I am burning heals like no other. Crap! I am almost out of mana, I better use my sorry ass excuse for evocation since Blizzard has decided to no take the proper move to help us and take illumination back to 100%."

    *click Divine Plea* (plea to make the piece of crap useful)

    Warrior - "WTH, my health is dropping super fast, it is almost like I am missing a healer!"

    That being said, the only way I run out of mana is if I am having to throw out Holy Lights like candy on All Hallow's Eve, and if that is happening I can't afford to stop healing for 15 seconds straight, and for 25% of my mana? Even with the 13k mana I have now which is a crap ton of mana from what I have seen at 70, that is just over 3k, which gives me 4 holy lights? If I call now I get the spell that gives me +25% healing at the cost of 100% of my crit rate too?

    4) Look at the glyphs for flash of light and holy light, and tell me if you do not see a pattern. Paladins got a lot of what they want but looks like we are glyphing for it.
    Nothing against the OP on this one, but making spells require a glyphs to make them do what it probably should have in the first place is just a craptastic cop out. Honestly I have no idea what the hell the glyphs are for those spells, but just the way you worded it makes it sound like the spell as a whole should be one way, but you are screwed unless you glyph it. Inscriptions are going to be just like Alchemy and Enchanting, an annoying tradeskill that is going to be required to do anything in a raid, which means the economy is going to revolve around them, and the cost is going to go through the roof. I play MMOs to kill big dragons, I do not play MMOs to spend 2 hours a day running around farming to get enough money to have a chance to go kill a big dragon.

  17. #37

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoan
    Why not make the mana regen back to 50% and channeled? The first set up for it sucked, and it is WAAAAY better than what it is now. Currently it has gone from nearly useless, to completely useless.
    whats the difference between channeled and 100% less healing?
    when it was 50% mana back it was on 5min CD if i remember correctly, 1min 25% its a lot better than 5mins 50%.....

  18. #38

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by breath
    whats the difference between channeled and 100% less healing?
    Nothing, but originally it was 50% of your mana and channeled, now it is 25% and "channeled". I would rather sacrifice my ability to run around in circles for a few seconds for more mana.

  19. #39

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoan
    Nothing, but originally it was 50% of your mana and channeled, now it is 25% and "channeled". I would rather sacrifice my ability to run around in circles for a few seconds for more mana.
    dude in many raid situations you are required to move, moving means no heal, but you can use this, plus only 1 min CD...so it means you can actually use this a lot more, first of all you can use this more than 1 time, second you can use this in more situations cause its instant and doesnt require to stand still...

    no you cant heal with it on you, but sry that would make it really overpowered....

  20. #40

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by breath
    dude in many raid situations you are required to move, moving means no heal, but you can use this, plus only 1 min CD...so it means you can actually use this a lot more, first of all you can use this more than 1 time, second you can use this in more situations cause its instant and doesnt require to stand still...

    no you cant heal with it on you, but sry that would make it really overpowered....
    Why not just learn the encounter and just use it in between things that require you to move? The original channel time was 10 seconds, hearthstone is 10 seconds, we all know we can bubble hearth, why not bubble channel Divine Plea? Or even channel it for 5 seconds, get the full effect of the craptastic spell now, and be able to heal 100% 10 seconds faster.

    I get your point, but still if I have to move around in an encounter, I like to holy shock as I run around like a wuss trying to keep the tank up, but I can't even do that.

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