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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Keile's Avatar
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Just to emphasize, as someone who as played beta...this "nerf" has been in there for a while now. It just took until this recent build to change it's tooltip.



    Divine Plea is not a mana tide, it is not a shadow fiend or an innervate. It is more like an EVOCATE from a mage and a Bloodrage from a warrior smooshed together. It has the 25% generation from the Bloodrage and the inability to do anything from Evocation :\

    REMEMBER THIS....IS....BETA, nothing is permanent and can be changed at a moments notice.

    But in case you Holy pallies feel bad, i direct you to the Enhancement Shaman nerfs, and the fact that the new hero class can replace them by giving the raid nearly every buff they can. >.> Poor shaman.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  2. #62

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Munk
    Would be funny to see most rogue expressions though.

    HA! I got you now you good for nothing holydin!
    -Commence 6 second rawr fest

    Paladin /yawns
    -Insta full heals every 6 seconds

    Rogue CoS's away befuddled and frustrated at his inability to kill the paladin or stop his heals.
    i guess nobody told you about respecs huh?
    I participated in the legendary BACON thread.

  3. #63

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allenna
    Maybe if it was on a longer cooldown (2 mins sounds good) with only a 50% healing reduction, maybe if could be a bit better. I mean, the only way of regenerating mana is by either critting or drinking a pot. To crit, you must be casting. MP5 is ok, but you need lots to be effective. Also, you ever seen an innervate on a paladin, i remember getting 20-25% of my mana back, and that is out of the FSR while a priest getting it can get back to full or almost while spamming CoH, i've seen it.
    The problem with a holy pally's pvp gear is that it stacks all spell crit, and no mp5 (excluding the rings and neck for some reason o_O). While I understand spell crit does give back mp5 (at level 70, 1% spell crit = 3.6 mp5 roughly), it can't be compared to straight mp5 because in order to proc Illumination you need to actually be casting.

    A pally saves some mana if he chooses to heal, whereas a druid is constantly gaining mana passively whether he's healing or not.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=Crispybacon

  4. #64

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Divine Plea is meant for Ret and Prot which both have 0 Int on their gear and don't heal. It was meant as a nerf to Holy, as many of the changes this last patch were. JotW nerfed people in Holy gear, not Ret gear, etc.

  5. #65
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Divine Plea is meant for Ret and Prot which both have 0 Int on their gear and don't heal. It was meant as a nerf to Holy, as many of the changes this last patch were. JotW nerfed people in Holy gear, not Ret gear, etc.
    Listen up paladins, to the paladin community half of you are retards half are not.

    1) suggesting chages is futile this is not made for holy.

    Second do all you paladins not get that you can not have paldins be as good as every other class in prot, pve ret, pvp ret, pvp holy, and pve hoy.

    You have two choices in this game.

    Pick a game type you want to do well out, then pick the class good at it. Or pick a class and spec and do whats best thats at.

    If your class is not good at the game aspect you want, reroll

  6. #66

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo
    Listen up paladins, to the paladin community half of you are retards half are not.

    1) suggesting chages is futile this is not made for holy.

    Second do all you paladins not get that you can not have paldins be as good as every other class in prot, pve ret, pvp ret, pvp holy, and pve hoy.

    You have two choices in this game.

    Pick a game type you want to do well out, then pick the class good at it. Or pick a class and spec and do whats best thats at.

    If your class is not good at the game aspect you want, reroll
    The latest changes to DP would indicate that you are incorrect, and that it is indeed meant for ALL specs.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.* If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.* If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it.* I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't;* I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

  7. #67

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Awesome ability but belongs in the prot tree.

  8. #68

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo
    Listen up paladins, to the paladin community half of you are retards half are not.

    1) suggesting chages is futile this is not made for holy.

    Second do all you paladins not get that you can not have paldins be as good as every other class in prot, pve ret, pvp ret, pvp holy, and pve hoy.

    You have two choices in this game.

    Pick a game type you want to do well out, then pick the class good at it. Or pick a class and spec and do whats best thats at.

    If your class is not good at the game aspect you want, reroll
    1. Currently on live Paladins are the worst at everything, that's the problem, not that we want to be the best, but we want to be good or at least viable at everything.

    2. Rerolling still won't fix the fact that there are crappy specs, there's no point in the specs even being there if they are unplayable.

    Your logic is idiotic, gratz on being a moron.

  9. #69

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    it got buffed . stop

    We are still showing good healing from Holy paladins. However, we are getting feedback that they may be struggling with mana and perhaps even with boredom. To help with both of these potential problems, We are going to change Divine Plea to only reduce your healing by 20% (up from 100%). However, the original nerf to the spell was partially because of it being difficult to stop a paladin in PvP, so we are going to make the effect dispellable.

    We're still taking a look at some of Holy's deep talents and I do want to acknowledge that there have been many great suggestions to change some of those.

    We understand that some Holy paladins still feel that their movement and group healing mechanics aren't sufficient yet. However, we still like Bacon of Light , Holy Shock and talents like Infusion of Light to help with these problems. We want to get a few of the kinks out and see them in action more before making further changes here.

    We also want to reiterate that measuring healing is much tougher than estimating dps or tank mitigation. While healing throughput and efficiency are important, so is knowing who to heal when and with what spell. We're going to keep a close eye on this through the rest of beta, in the Burning Crusade patch and when Lich King goes live.

    Thank you, as always, for your feedback.

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...70621&sid=2000

  10. #70

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    ...and there the retri-wankers with their "lol reroll a more usefull paladin spec" got shafted.

  11. #71

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerOne
    ...and there the retri-wankers with their "lol reroll a more usefull paladin spec" got shafted.
    a bit more respect pls

    beside there were enough people who said o a lot of paladins to stop the whine allready if bliz see that we lack something they will fix it.
    do i have to remind you that it were holy paladins yell OMFG BLIZZARD, FU BLIZZARD and whole that yadayada crap.

    i find it ironically that blizzard actually thanks you for your feedback but
    in most of the most i only see flaming towards them in the most idiotic and low ways possible.

    what i would like to see is an appologie of all those whiners who were stating that blizzard likes to fuck up their class, and that they dont know what they are doing
    i think a bunch of hotheads need to take back their words.




  12. #72

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Even with this spell intended for ret and prot. Holy can easily use it.
    During movement or during a quick pause between pulls.
    While he is running in for collapse on kil'jaeden etc.
    And it can be clicked off to heal, he doesnt need to use the whole thing, free mana is free.
    Bornakk"Increasingly it felt like someone playing against a Ret-Pally really only had 60% of their health bar because Vindication took away 20% from the start and then Hammer of Wrath kicked in when they had 20% left. This change was something we could confidently hotfix and would have a minimal to no impact on the PvE side of things. "
    VINDICATION TAKES 20% HEALTH /facepalm

  13. #73

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    ill give 2 examples to counter the last post

    muru - i dont even get the five second cast time to regen mana that way . Stop healing = tank dies

    The 2nd will include some little background regarding arena . Divine plea is like drinking , but renders you useless for 15 seconds. The tragic part of it is that i locks a tree , not an ability . And also it was very important to keep the buff on a minute cooldown to be reliable against massive mana drain effects ( i'm sure most of those who played holy can recognize the 'resist ' behavior of our dispell vs viper sting ) . Some other times the lock gets glued to you , etc. It would have been wrong to demand this spell just for pve purpose , as if you get oom (dark rune , fel mana pot at extreme cases , mana pots + alchemy trinket are your friend) your doing something wrong in most cases (twins and muru not included)

  14. #74
    Stood in the Fire Rilec's Avatar
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Fixed to only reduce healing by 20%.

  15. #75
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Divine Plea is meant for Ret and Prot which both have 0 Int on their gear and don't heal. It was meant as a nerf to Holy, as many of the changes this last patch were. JotW nerfed people in Holy gear, not Ret gear, etc.
    You freaking retard, ya they dont have INT on their gear, duh. So they dont have any kind of mana pool so they oom rather easy. OMG SLASH YOUR WRISTS YOU WILL BE DOING THE UNIVERSE A FAVOR BY ELIMIATING A STUPID PERSON

  16. #76

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo
    You freaking retard, ya they dont have INT on their gear, duh. So they dont have any kind of mana pool so they oom rather easy. OMG SLASH YOUR WRISTS YOU WILL BE DOING THE UNIVERSE A FAVOR BY ELIMIATING A STUPID PERSON
    this post makes me giggle a bit rofl

    as far as i can read/understand your flame. you say that when ret and prot have less mana they go oom fast? i hope its the irony

    you could actually explain this person in a nice way that all spells are % of mana based
    wether you 5k mana or 10k mana that it doesnt make any difference (or less)

    so yes a retri pala with 5k mana or a pala with 15k mana are treated the same




  17. #77

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo
    You freaking retard, ya they dont have INT on their gear, duh. So they dont have any kind of mana pool so they oom rather easy. OMG SLASH YOUR WRISTS YOU WILL BE DOING THE UNIVERSE A FAVOR BY ELIMIATING A STUPID PERSON
    yikes an um yea take your ridalin and go hump a tree or something lol funny stuff.

    yes prot and ret has a smaller pool, but um BoSanc and JotWwith a skilled person meens they won't go oom. DP is good for pve and needed to be changed so the qq'ing pvp'ers could stop whining about pally's with to much mana. fuck pvp and give the game back to pve allready.

  18. #78
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Val3rim
    this post makes me giggle a bit rofl

    as far as i can read/understand your flame. you say that when ret and prot have less mana they go oom fast? i hope its the irony

    you could actually explain this person in a nice way that all spells are % of mana based
    wether you 5k mana or 10k mana that it doesnt make any difference (or less)

    so yes a retri pala with 5k mana or a pala with 15k mana are treated the same



    If all your abilites are tied into your base mana for lvl 80, and you have no gear that gives you int, then your abilities then are treated as max mana by default, becase your max mana is equal to your base mana.

    This is why this is here, because while prot and ret CAN CAST A HEAL, if they do so they will oom, which kills their dps, which then means they have to wair till they can judge again.

    Look at the new JoWise, prevents ret from stacking int, because if they do, they will gain a lower percentage of total mana back from the judgment each time they judge.

    If grammar is your only recourse for criticism then you sir fail.


  19. #79

    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evereghalo
    If all your abilites are tied into your base mana for lvl 80, and you have no gear that gives you int, then your abilities then are treated as max mana by default, becase your max mana is equal to your base mana.

    This is why this is here, because while prot and ret CAN CAST A HEAL, if they do so they will oom, which kills their dps, which then means they have to wair till they can judge again.

    Look at the new JoWise, prevents ret from stacking int, because if they do, they will gain a lower percentage of total mana back from the judgment each time they judge.

    If grammar is your only recourse for criticism then you sir fail.

    No.

    Max Mana for a Ret/Prot Paladin does NOT equal their base mana. Base Mana isn't just the mana you would have with no intellect on your gear, it's the amount of mana you would have with 0 intellect at your given level. You know how every time you ding it says gained "Insert Arbitrary Number Value For The Sake Of An Example Here" mana, and the same with every other stat? That's base mana.

    The new JotW is a buff. It gives more mana back to a level 80 Ret paladin than it used to. It was changed to keep Holy paladins from using it for near limitless mana.

    Retribution and Prot Paladins have no problem with mana. Just go look at Enhancement Shamans. Their mana pool is typically very low, yet they have Shamanistic Rage and Water Shield which makes their mana pool almost limitless. Ret paladins now work in a similar fashion.

    In summation, please do some research before spouting your opinion as fact. It is rude to insult others without any factual back up.


  20. #80
    Stood in the Fire
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    Re: Divine Plea... whaa?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjanson
    * Divine Plea changed to : You gain 25% of your total mana over 15 sec (Old - 10 sec), but the amount healed by your spells is reduced by 100%. (Old - 50%)

    Wait a second. You mean reduced by 100% as in... you can't heal at all? Why in the hell would a holy paladin use this ever? Someone explain to me the reasoning behind this... I understand they want to make it less OP for ret and prot paladins, but 15 seconds of no heals to give you a quarter of your mana back seems really shitty. Compare this to Evocate, which restores 60% of your mana for only 8 seconds of inactivity.
    Don't know if anyone has mentioned it in this thread yet, but Divine Plea is being changed to: Restores 25% of your total mana over 15 seconds but reduced healing done by 20%. However, Divine Plea can now be Dispelled.

    I think the original idea was that Divine Plea made up for the fact that Druids and Priests can sit back and do nothing to regenerate ridiculous amounts of Mana through Spirit / Int regeneration. However, since Paladins never got that Hand of Purity spell, they have no Healing Over Time Effects to work while regenerating Mana. However, in theory you could pop Divine Plea and still toss a couple of Holy Lights for no Mana, since you'll be regenerating Mana while Divine Plea is up. Also, with the change to Avenging Wrath, pop your Wings and suddenly you're healing for normal amount while regenerating mana, with 15 additional seconds of 120% heals at the end. Pretty cool trick imo.

    Naturally, they had to balance the "Free Regen" in PvP by making it a magic effect, allowing it to be removed with dispel effects. My #1 concern is "Can it be Spellstolen?" I hope not personally, that would be "A Slap in the Collective Faces of Every Paladin Ever", but we'll see. Probably will be, to be honest, but I guess you can always blow three cooldowns in Arena to be uber . . .

    GOGO AVENGING WRATH! GOGO DIVINE SHIELD! GOGO DIVINE PLEA!



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