Improved Vampiric Embrace - for raiding.

[Ntrails]

Simple.

With raid wide buffs, there is no need to have the traditional tank group. So who do you put in a tank group?

Well, in my opinion 25% of a SP DPS at 80 is going to be at least 500HPS - why would you not put that in MT group to make healers job easier?

Threat testing is, of course, impossible to discern outside of Beta runs. My tank friends assure me they are doing far far more TPS then before and expect to scale well. So I am going to assume we will not be even close to their threat.

If that is the case - why on earth would you not take it? ^_^

[noz3r0]

I had a discussion about this in another thread this morning. It seems that with the extra 30% decrease we get from Shadow Form in conjunction with the added TPS that tanks generate I think it will be best to take it over something else like Imp Fort or Imp Shadow Form. Preferably a build something to the likes of this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...12325150301351

You also must keep in mind that the healing threat is generated evenly across the number of mobs in the area of the target affected with VE. Basically, if there are 4 mobs in the area you are generating 1/4 of the heal threat on each mob, very little.

Well, in my opinion 25% of a SP DPS at 80 is going to be at least 500HPS

That's assuming we have 2k DPS (.25x = 500.. x = 2000, where x = DPS). Now, apply the same math for 15% (2000 * .15 = 300). Beta testers are putting our DPS at a 2500 benchmark so lets use that now. Imp VE = 2500 * .25 = 625. Normal VE = 2500 * .15 = 375. That's 250 more HPS on average. It's about the equivalent of a weak Renew. I'm leaning a little bit more towards taking Imp VE over Imp Fort now =O

[Nezoia]

Doesn't even have to be in a tank group !

Group Healing is STILL a important aspect of the game. But since our mana is raid wide, I surpose it doesn't matter. Can't say how important having a shaman with spelldmg totem and mana tide in my group will be yet.

But ofcource, Imp. VE shall be a requirement for raiding, unless your tanks suck arse.

[Aerv]

Definitely yes !
It is a great extra Heal and it gets stronger if the whole grp takes dmg or you have more tanks.

It's about the equivalent of a weak Renew

It's not really weak, because Renew has 3sec ticks and you are couting with DPS. 625 would be a 1875 Renew and i don't think that is a weak one with lvl 80.

[Kamos]

But ofcource, Imp. VE shall be a requirement for raiding, unless your tanks suck arse.

A requirement? Not really.

[Mosshorn]

I don't know if this will be possible. It really shouldn't, at least. We're supposed to be competitive on the damage meters now, to make up for the loss of much of our utility. If 625 HPS is possible, that means tanks will need enough threat to keep over the top of a high DPS class, on top of 3125 HPS in healing. Which means that threat has to basically be a complete and total non-issue now.

Would be nice, but kinda doubt it. :-\

[Shadecast]

I would be absolutely retarded to put the spriest in the tank group due to threat.

Put the spriests in with classes that are likely to take damage (ie. locks who will life tap themselves down a lot), or put them with the healers so the healers can get the benefit of heals to themselves why they focus on raid/tank healing.

[noz3r0]

Definitely yes !
It is a great extra Heal and it gets stronger if the whole grp takes dmg or you have more tanks.
It's not really weak, because Renew has 3sec ticks and you are couting with DPS. 625 would be a 1875 Renew and i don't think that is a weak one with lvl 80.

Yeah I totally forgot all about that =/ I'd have to test it and see if its going to affect threat. When you put it that way it makes it seem like VE is equivalent to crazy. 625 HPS = 6250 HP in 10 seconds.. or 37500 healing per minute =O

[Marrakech]

with the new vigilance change it would be nice to pair a shadowpriest with a prot warrior

[Gaiwyn]

Question: with the changes to raid-wide buffs, and considering that VE is a buff (health return), does only the immediate party benefit, health-wise or does it now affect the whole raid? I would have immediately assumed that it affects the whole raid, but having read these posts I guess it still only affects each group that contains a shadow priest. Does this in essence mean that VE is not considered to be a buff?

Gaiwyn aka Ilyaena of Proudmoore

[noz3r0]

Hmm, read the talent. It just says everyone in the group. It specifies it's boundaries.

[Degrador]

But ofcource, Imp. VE shall be a requirement for raiding, unless your tanks suck arse.

Small question - if Imp. VE wasn't a requirement, wouldn't that mean that your tanks / healers don't need the extra healing? In which case, how does that translate to you tanks sucking arse?

[Tasttey]

Small question - if Imp. VE wasn't a requirement, wouldn't that mean that your tanks / healers don't need the extra healing? In which case, how does that translate to you tanks sucking arse?

Tank sucking arse is in reference to being threat capped from imp VE. Basically it means your tank has no clue how to generate threat.

By bringing in shadow priests with imp VE and putting them in the tank group, hell you'll be bringing 1 or 2 anyways, you could roll with 1 less healer, freeing up a spot for additional dps. Or have one less "MT healer" allowing them to focus more on the raid.

Take Brut for example, putting shadow priests with imp VE in the groups that are eating meteor slashes means that less healing has to be done to the raid and more can be focused on the tanks, who btw are getting their arse's beat by a huge Pit Lord with a codpiece.

[Degrador]

Tank sucking arse is in reference to being threat capped from imp VE. Basically it means your tank has no clue how to generate threat.

Ah, ok, missed that link. Something tells me that's not going to be an issue though - I remember reading a few Blizzard posts indicating that they're expecting tanks to have a lot more threat to play with in WOTLK than previously. Besides, healing threat is only at half the rate as dmg, so at most you'd be doing 62.5% extra threat and that's assuming nobody in the group is at max HP. Take out the 30% reduction from shadow form and now (assuming you're doing the same dps) you're looking at only 14% more than other dps classes (162.5 * 0.7 = 113.75). Given that you're extremely unlikely to have all 5 party members at < 100% for the whole fight, I really doubt the threat will be a major issue for shadow priests.

[Chell82]

Basically imp VE becomes a requirement when entering SWP.
Btw if this spell would have been raid-wise than you`d be dead within the 1st 10 secs of the fight )
I haven`t had the chance to play Beta so have no idea how tanks are doing but tbh i`m pretty sceptical about the possibility of using imp VE.
I mean sure there will be bosses that have maybe aggro resets between phases or smthing but considering a 1 phase fight 100 to 0% i tend not to be so trustworthy of tanks. its very sad to just sit around and wait for ur tank to go up another 15k threat so u can cast another 2 MF and 1 MB

[Chell82]

Off topic here : i have a question regarding Pain and Suffering .
Does it always refresh your sw at the 18 sec position ? What i`m getting at is if you`re SW:P is at lets say 10 sec... 1 sec away from proccing... and u cast MF : does it refresh it at the 18 sec pos ? so basically u waited 5 sec for a tick ? cause that can really be troublesome :|

[Tasttey]

Off topic here : i have a question regarding Pain and Suffering .
Does it always refresh your sw at the 18 sec position ? What i`m getting at is if you`re SW:P is at lets say 10 sec... 1 sec away from proccing... and u cast MF : does it refresh it at the 18 sec pos ? so basically u waited 5 sec for a tick ? cause that can really be troublesome :|

It only refreshes Duration, not the tick cycle. SW: Pain will always tick every 3 sec (provided the mob doesn't die, become immune...yadda yadda) that it is on the target, P&S just means you only have to cast it once...ok depending on how you start your rotation/trinket procs/yadda yadda, maybe twice, if you can managed to get a couple of MF's on said target within the 18 seconds.

[Cleir]

I've been playing with imp VE for a while now and on fights like m'uru or twins I'm getting close to 1000hps. Healling your whole group for 1200 each when you crit those 4800 mindblasts is win.

On brutallus I'm the only 1 who heals my group from the MS's. Leaves the healers free to burn heal and keep the tanks up. I can't see that happening without the talents.

[Tasttey]

I've been playing with imp VE for a while now and on fights like m'uru or twins I'm getting close to 1000hps. Healling your whole group for 1200 each when you crit those 4800 mindblasts is win.

On brutallus I'm the only 1 who heals my group from the MS's. Leaves the healers free to burn heal and keep the tanks up. I can't see that happening without the talents.

Amen.

I took a look at the WWS parse from your Brut kill tonight, we roll 3 shadow priests, all with 2/2 Imp VE.

Combined Effective Healing for the 3 shadow priests was more than our top healer, and nearly as much the bottom 2 healers (combined) for that fight.

[Ntrails]

I've been playing with imp VE for a while now and on fights like m'uru or twins I'm getting close to 1000hps. Healling your whole group for 1200 each when you crit those 4800 mindblasts is win.

On brutallus I'm the only 1 who heals my group from the MS's. Leaves the healers free to burn heal and keep the tanks up. I can't see that happening without the talents.

Go further back, Surely on Najentus EVERY shadow priest wound up a Mind blast for the moment the shield broke - again group heal is awesome.