They are doing it again >:(

[Uthér]

In original wow paladins were so flawed that they could only heal (and T1-T2-T3 only has healing bonus). In BC they called us trash-tanks (God how humiliating is this?). And now they are claiming they want all 4 classes should be main tank(lies). The following is a short comparison between warrior protection tree and paladin protection tree.

Warrior Tree: Respeccing fully requires 66 talent points. And I honestly don't see any talents that says "Im not designed for Main Tanking". You get 27 Tanking abilities for 66 points.

Tree consists of:

4 * 5 Talented
6 * 3 Talented
11 * 2 Talented
6 * 1 Talented abilities.

Paladin Tree: Respeccing fully requires 72 talent points.(We only have 71 in wotlk). I see talents like Guardians Favor and Divine Guardian which makes no sense at all while tanking. You get 25 abilities (only 23 tanking abilities if you include stoicism).

Tree consists of:

7 * 5 Talented
7 * 3 Talented
6 * 2 Talented
4 * 1 Talented abilities.

We get Divine Protection (%50 damage reduction for 12 secs 5 min cd) they get shield wall (%60 damage reduction for 12 secs 5 min cd). We get %6 physical %12 magic damage reduction, they get %10 physical %16 magic damage reduction. Oh we got stamina nerf too. I can give many more examples about the so called balance that favors Warriors.

Conclusion:

Kalgan is doing it again. He is making the warriors best tanks. We got some buffs right but since we were so inferior, buffs are not enough to fill the gap. Prepare to be left out in wotlk...

[Deleted]

First post and a qq? Right way to start a MMO-champ career.
Don't get so freaked out about every change, there will be a lot more upcoming - this is NOT final!

There are just MT skills in the Warriortree?
Warbringer,Safeguard, imp.disci,imp.disarm - you won't really need this skills for every boss.

[roningsp]

In original wow paladins were so flawed that they could only heal (and T1-T2-T3 only has healing bonus). In BC they called us trash-tanks (God how humiliating is this?). And now they are claiming they want all 4 classes should be main tank(lies). The following is a short comparison between warrior protection tree and paladin protection tree.

Warrior Tree: Respeccing fully requires 66 talent points. And I honestly don't see any talents that says "Im not designed for Main Tanking". You get 27 Tanking abilities for 66 points.

Tree consists of:

4 * 5 Talented
6 * 3 Talented
11 * 2 Talented
6 * 1 Talented abilities.

Paladin Tree: Respeccing fully requires 72 talent points.(We only have 71 in wotlk). I see talents like Guardians Favor and Divine Guardian which makes no sense at all while tanking. You get 25 abilities (only 23 tanking abilities if you include stoicism).

Tree consists of:

7 * 5 Talented
7 * 3 Talented
6 * 2 Talented
4 * 1 Talented abilities.

We get Divine Protection (%50 damage reduction for 12 secs 5 min cd) they get shield wall (%60 damage reduction for 12 secs 5 min cd). We get %6 physical %12 magic damage reduction, they get %10 physical %16 magic damage reduction. Oh we got stamina nerf too. I can give many more examples about the so called balance that favors Warriors.

Conclusion:

Kalgan is doing it again. He is making the warriors best tanks. We got some buffs right but since we were so inferior, buffs are not enough to fill the gap. Prepare to be left out in wotlk...

warrior > paladin
warrior is THE tank droods, deathknights and palas are second choice :P

[Lexan]

well seeing as warriors got their sheild block changed i'm not that angry about the dmg reduction stuff, and our devo arura gives us extra healing so we can afford to take a bit more dmg. AS for tallent points, some of the prot tallents are for pvp and they said that they want pally's to be able to multi tree to achieve thier "spec". As such i personally only am going to put 54 points into0 prot tree maybe 57 if i got for full imp devo arua. My friend will be putting exactly 51 into prot as warrior, maybe somemore for utility and more threat, but both of us are goint o spec into other tree's.

Seeing as pally's can actually maintain 100% avoidance at all times with holy shield, and the fast that we get 10% avoidance just from atllents, which is very powerfull, we ACTUALLY GOT A SHIELD WALL EFFECT, i'd say prot pally's are actually buffed out the ass and i am happy with the changes.


besides we get consecration

[delage35]

Pal tanks have been superior to all tanking classes for several months. And even if you spent 66 of the 72 tps "needed", you'd still be as capable and significantly more versatile than warriors. Oversensitive much?

[Trayke]

Those numbers are insignificant.

Yes, I said. They are insignificant. They mean nothing. They ultimately have absolutely no effect on whether you will be a good tank.

If you are QQing over those tiny differences, then please reroll something a little more braindead.

[dsswoosh]

Protadins are by far the best tanks in 5 mans and 10 mans.

In raids you can also tank most bosses if u wish, not quite as good as warriors, but you also get niche roles that warriors simply cant do.

Hyjal trash, muru adds.

Personally i would take a protadin to every 5 man i could do. Aoe tank = no cc needed = aoe the crap out of everything.

If you want your sinlge mob tanking to be as good as warriors, you simply cant expect to be very good aoe tanks.

Prot pally = speicalise in aoe tanking
Warrior = specialise in single target tanking

You role class depending on what you want to do.

What you are suggesting with your thread though is you want both types of tanks to have equal tanking abilities in all aspects of the game.

Which is arguably a retarded suggestion.

[Nuronv]

Hi,

These are talent trees, they allow you to customize your character to get bonuses and abilities that you like and suit your play style. All the talents are designed to be attractive, its not really customizing if you pick all of them, and guess what, you don't have to!

So what if our shield wall is 10% less than a warriors....the fact they gave us a shield wall isn't enough for you?

[Majokin]

warriors are btw also good aoe-tanks btw (ptr+beta)
their will be no diff between aeo and singletarget tank! every tank should become viable aoetank and so on pala should also become viable singletargettank.
com on giev paly the "every tank is on par with each other"

[Nilaihah]

Did all warriors and mages roll Paladin or something?

Jeez, it used to be those two classes that had monopoly on whiners.

[Zealic]

Play some other class if it's broken. Blizzard isn't fucking up their own game, that would be plain stupid. They invented WoW, and they try to balance it out, takes time, have some patience.

Blizzard is making this game the way they want, and i'm sure they don't want the game fucked up, so it'll be changed in due time.

Just because you seem to think your class sucks, it doesn't suck, they're the professionals, not you.

[Heraro]

Lets make all classes same then there won't be whines but there will be no one playing also

[Uthér]

Inicharu:

There are just MT skills in the Warriortree?
Warbringer,Safeguard, imp.disci,imp.disarm - you won't really need this skills for every boss.

You can not tank any boss with divine guardian. Can not versus won't really need.

Nightruler:

myself and i know many others think the same, rather have a paly as mt then a war

I gave you numbers, facts, you gave me an empty statement.

Lexan:

You will not be able to maintain %100 avoidance in wotlk...

Trayke:

If you are QQing over those tiny differences, then please reroll something a little more braindead.

Why for gods sake tiny differences does not favor my class for once?

dsswoosh:

Please follow ptr and see warriors now got aoe skills so what you claim as retarded is what Devs claim to do in Wotlk...

[Zedzedicuz]

Conclusion:

Kalgan is doing it again. He is making the warriors best tanks. We got some buffs right but since we were so inferior, buffs are not enough to fill the gap. Prepare to be left out in wotlk...

I mean warriors are tanks and they always were and will be best just live with it dude... you can do it.

[Kavalir]

Yeah I really dont have much of anything to complain about the changed prot tree. You're also not considering the non prot spells that have been changed / added to benefit tanks.

You're forgetting LoH can now be used every 20 minutes. Prot warrior nor any other tanks have a O Shit im at 2% wait now im at 100% ability like that. We also have Sacred Shield that is castable on ourselves giving us an additional 500 dmg per hit mitigation.

[Uthér]

Yeah I really dont have much of anything to complain about the changed prot tree. You're also not considering the non prot spells that have been changed / added to benefit tanks.

You're forgetting LoH can now be used every 20 minutes. Prot warrior nor any other tanks have a O Shit im at 2% wait now im at 100% ability like that. We also have Sacred Shield that is castable on ourselves giving us an additional 500 dmg per hit mitigation.

Instead prot warriors have last stand for %30 hp and 5 min cooldown. Makes 4 last stands in 20 minutes. And guess what. If you start casting when you are %2 you probably die (I know its instant, takes time to see your hp decide on what to do and hit a button). So warrior ability is to prevent before it happens, and paladin ability is after it happens. That 500 dmg per hit is every 5 secs for 30 secs (not every hit as you claim it to be). Oh and they can reflect the spells too but i guess that doesnt count as a fact that may make you drop to %2 ?

And I did not even start to talk about Mana Burns and Silences during a boss fight.

[Sashan]

Paladin tanks on PTR and on Beta are damn damn good single target tanks.

You can not examine a class purely on the basis of talent trees to the exclusion or virtual exclusion of everything else.

Unfortunately this is what you get, toys thrown out pram because Warrior has X and can do Y - we dont have that exactly the same thing in our trees.

Classes are different. Blizzards intention are to make all 4 tanking classes comparable in their ability to both AoE tank and Single target tank. OBVIOUSLY they may have a preference in where their main strength lies, BUT they can perform all roles very well regardless.

Warriors can AoE tank now... it is true - but Paladin AoE tank threat still outstrips them (consecration threat is higher than what AoE warrior can kick out) and druid AoE tanking is "ok" but not the best... unlimited swipe limit nonwithstanding.

I just wish people would take a step back in that classes are different - and if you can fulfill the role, what the hell is the issue?


Finally - boss fights do not have mana burns/silences/fears now. Blizzard have stated that they will not make encounters that mean you MUST have a particular class tank. Therefore mentioning this in view of the future WotlK is pointless whining.

Fear bosses in TBC were created as at the start it was blizzards intention that warriors be the primary tank, for wotlk this is no longer the case. Hence those mechanics wont be used unless the class has a way to deal with it.

[Dimelos]

lol omg. Just roll a warrior if you this mad about the changes. I know what you mean about some of those things because I'm a tankadin myself, but seriously just delete yours and start a warrior or go ret or holy.

[Inside]

In original wow paladins were so flawed that they could only heal (and T1-T2-T3 only has healing bonus). In BC they called us trash-tanks (God how humiliating is this?). And now they are claiming they want all 4 classes should be main tank(lies). The following is a short comparison between warrior protection tree and paladin protection tree.

Warrior Tree: Respeccing fully requires 66 talent points. And I honestly don't see any talents that says "Im not designed for Main Tanking". You get 27 Tanking abilities for 66 points.

Tree consists of:

4 * 5 Talented
6 * 3 Talented
11 * 2 Talented
6 * 1 Talented abilities.

Paladin Tree: Respeccing fully requires 72 talent points.(We only have 71 in wotlk). I see talents like Guardians Favor and Divine Guardian which makes no sense at all while tanking. You get 25 abilities (only 23 tanking abilities if you include stoicism).

Tree consists of:

7 * 5 Talented
7 * 3 Talented
6 * 2 Talented
4 * 1 Talented abilities.

We get Divine Protection (%50 damage reduction for 12 secs 5 min cd) they get shield wall (%60 damage reduction for 12 secs 5 min cd). We get %6 physical %12 magic damage reduction, they get %10 physical %16 magic damage reduction. Oh we got stamina nerf too. I can give many more examples about the so called balance that favors Warriors.

Conclusion:

Kalgan is doing it again. He is making the warriors best tanks. We got some buffs right but since we were so inferior, buffs are not enough to fill the gap. Prepare to be left out in wotlk...

Please stop posting crap like this. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Paladin Tank != Warrior Tank, never has and never will. They are two different types of Tanks, with different abilities that can do the same job in WotLK.

Thanks.

[Admuntour]

Honestly I think your concerns are unfounded.
So what if warriors have more talents that are for pure tanking?
For one, the paladin protection tree has a couple of talents that are meant to have a bit of synergy with the other talents, BoK, Divine Strength, Guardian's Favor, Stoicism etc.

As for comparing, yes warriors do have 4% more physical and 4% more magical mittigation overall, however 6% physical and 12% magical isn't so bad either and a 4% difference isn't that big, the stamina nerf was needed otherwise paladins would have overtaken warriors by a lot with the new WoTLK gear, and if you haven't noticed warriors lost 4% stamina in vitality in exchange for 1% more strength and 5 expertise.
Paladins still have 6% more stamina then warriors.
Paladins still have 9% more strength then warriors, strength means more threat, it also means more block value= mittigation.
Paladins now have judgment of the just, which really cuts down on the damage by a lot, its on par with warriors TC but brings paladins even more on par with warriors.
Paladins will still get have more avoidance then warriors, shield block has been turned into a 1 min emergency ability, but paladins still have their holy shield.
With the change to judgments and all other abilities to scale with both AP and SP, and with 30% SP from stamina talent, paladins have finally had their mechanics fixed and their threat can scale a lot better with stats, and it will be more then it is now on live and will most likely be on par with warriors.
And for the first time ever paladins have a reliable emergency ability they can use on boss fights that is as close as possible to shield wall, divine protection.
Yes warriors have 60% reduction, I guess the devs had some special feelings left for warriors so they let them have a little niche with it, however, its no longer vastly superior to DP, or Icebound fortitude, there is a difference between 60% how it is now, and 75% how SW used to be.

At the moment protection paladins are looking far, far better then they are on live, I see them as good aoe tanks, and very good MT material, warriors have slightly more mittigation, we have slightly more stamina and avoidance its balanced out.
I think it would have been better if you would have waited to try out paladins in the upcoming patch, from what I hear in the beta its all nice and good.