10-man raids,like wtf

[ManniAT]

....So you think my concerns of not being able to see the content I bought in this game are less valid just because you think you're entitled to some far fetched idea of elite content? What makes you any more important than me in this game? The Internet is communist, buddy. That's the great thing about it. Online nobody is more important than anyone else. Why bother developing content for a tiny fraction of users when it's clear that it's annoying the great majority?

You feel important because you see nerved "high end" (or better call it "end content")?

Lets turn the table: I bought the game to have a challange to see something special because of my skill and effort.

Of course there are a lot of players with the wish to see "everything" and if possible with no skill or any kind of effort.
We made a lot of gold by bringing such players to BT or SWP

So where is the challenge gone?

And by the way - I spend 15 hours a day -- for work - and some litte hours with raiding.
As most of my guildmates do.
And it took time to reach the first boss in SWP - but it was interesting - and thats why I play the game and pay for it.

That's what I asking for -- make most of the content reachable for everybody - but keep at least one instance (raid inst) only for those who know how to play the game and invest the time to kill bosses there.
Thos "15 hours a day" players will go there in a few weeks - for people like me it will take months - but there is a goal we can try to reach - maybe we fail - or we win - does not matter.
To try it is what makes the game interesting.

[ManniAT]

Second of all i think it is a great idea cos more than 70% people play the game for fun and not for hard core, but also want to see what the entire game offers. Why shouldnt they be able to see it? they bought the game....did you ever buy another game and wanted to see the endo of it, or you wanted to stuck in the middel of it and then you dont know what the story is all about? Let the people see the GAME and Enjoy IT fully!

And think about it in the "hard way" - you can enter every instance - kill every boss - just buy "bosskill tickets" at a vendor (for nothing!!).
Thats the only way EVERYONE can see everything.
When I killed the last boss - the content is done - no more fun in the game than honor grinding and farming

Oh and one more thing, Hat down for all the people who do hard core rading! the deserv smt for their hard work, and they got it, to be the first ones to DO IT and get to say so!!! That can nobody take away from them!

There is another group of player - those "not hardocore" but "hard working players".
The will never be "the first" or whatever - the need very much time to kill something -- BUT they always have a goal to work for.

We did it to Kalecgos 5/6% - before the patch.
I took us months to clear BT - a lot of weeks to (almost) kill Kalecgos -- but we had a goal and we had fun.
And we always knew - there is something more we did not see till now, maybe if we train enogh we can see some of those bosses.

Now with the never we had Kil'jaden at 56% at our 3rd try.
BT is boaring, SWP is almost nothing (OK, a bit more challenging) - but we are almoste finished.
Next ID we'll kill Kil'jaden - that's it - nothing left to achive

[Keoni]

It makes sense as long as the progression route weaves through 10 and 25 man content reasonably.

[Deleted]

world of casualcraft :P

[ManniAT]

It makes sense as long as the progression route weaves through 10 and 25 man content reasonably.

I don't think so -- the same boss - just a bit harder (or different or...) - but noting really new

world of casualcraft :P

/signed

[Maneken]

Ok...ok...

My point of view....
First of all why should a 25 man be harder than a 10 man?? less peeps to kill something is harder...but then the 10 man dungeon/raid has his boss Hp reduced or something...and that is ok...atleast for me. But Still it does not have to be easier than 25 mans, cos you need to do the same thing as in a 25 but with less people.

Second of all i think it is a great idea cos more than 70% people play the game for fun and not for hard core, but also want to see what the entire game offers. Why shouldnt they be able to see it? they bought the game....did you ever buy another game and wanted to see the endo of it, or you wanted to stuck in the middel of it and then you dont know what the story is all about? Let the people see the GAME and Enjoy IT fully!

I am not in a full raidng guild, my guild does kara and ZA, so what? I did see magy, grul, ZA, kara, SCC, TK and BT, but didnt see sunwell, cos didnt pug it, but everything else i did. I spoke to my m8s in the guild about the things i saw and the fun i had and they all wanted to see it and expirience it but they couldnt! The 10 mans will give all people the chance now to see and have fun with everything! YAY for all who like it and want to see it!

Oh and one more thing, Hat down for all the people who do hard core rading! the deserv smt for their hard work, and they got it, to be the first ones to DO IT and get to say so!!! That can nobody take away from them!

PEACE!


loking forward to WotLK!
Big POZDRAV(hello) form Croatia!

Hi m8, pozdrav iz Samobora.
I agree with you to the some point.
Like idea that you can raid 10 man most of instances, while raiding in tbc my guild had made not so bad progress, cleared every instances except SW but we had rough start cause of few big problems:
1. getting geared up every possible active member for 25 man raids
2. helping not so experienced m8s in guild so that they can perform good in bigger raids or on harder events.
3. understanding events in way that we can do good raid progress

This 3 problems were hard to solve mostly cause in begining of tbc we had only 1 real instance for fast and good gearing up(yes we had also heroics) that was Kharazan also it was 1 of places where newer player in this game had chance to learn something called scripted fights(events), how that works, are they enough concetrated and skilled to be active in raiding higher instances.
While reading what we can expect on lvl 80 i have mixed feelings, yes 10 man version of raids can help you to gear up faster your active guildmembers, you can also check how they play in raid etc.
But there is 1 thing which dont like, if you play 10 man version and then go 25 man version in some way it kills alot of elements of suprise or excitments about bosses.
Also i respect every type of player in wow but if some1 is hardcore pve player or he is willing to more active in pve then average player he deserve to have part of game which is made for him and not open for every casual player.

[heeps]

I like 10 mans.
They're easier to coordinate on a schedule when everyone has jobs, and it makes recruiting easier. Most progression guilds have a core of solid players numbering at least 10.

[stubazg]

"And think about it in the "hard way" - you can enter every instance - kill every boss - just buy "bosskill tickets" at a vendor (for nothing!!).
Thats the only way EVERYONE can see everything.
When I killed the last boss - the content is done - no more fun in the game than honor grinding and farming"

I didnt say it has to be easy, like enter a instance and 10 peeps kill all, i said it could be more difficult in a 10 man than in a 25 man, lees peeps more work to do for each player...didnt say anywhere "buy "bosskill tickets"" and it is done, only stated that if we have 10 mans it will be easier for people to adjust to each other in smaller group than in a 25, you still need to do tactics for every boss/instance/raid only with less peeps.

"When I killed the last boss - the content is done - no more fun in the game than honor grinding and farming""----why is it done? wouldnt you like to do the boss in less time, fewer wipes, or something else, i cant think of more rasons. But you can allways inprove. Atleast i think so.

I totaly agree with my m8 form Samobor[hey hey, nice to see someone else from cro here..].
"of few big problems:
1. getting geared up every possible active member for 25 man raids"--it is a big problem to equip every person for a 25 raid, that is 2.5 times the amount you need than in a 10, well that is alot. with the idea of 10 man you need less peeps for gearing up but still need them to have good gear.

Sorry if i have somehow offened some peeps here.
But i stay with my opinion. 10 mans are great idea(more peeps are going to get to see more stuff, more peeps are going to have more fun). 10 mans could be harder(i mean it should take more skill) than the 25 mans.

Peeps have fun and lets wait and see what happens!

[Deleted]

i wonder what ppl are gonna do when they've done all 10 man instances in 2 months

[Axalrofl]

I personally prefer the 10man environment. Getting together with 9 other ingame buddies knowing no ones going to continuously fuck up over and over again. (of course thats not always the case for more hardcore guilds that don't recruit just anyone for the sake of "progression.")

[Bloodsoaked]

First I want to post I'm a hardcore raider and will be doing 25 and 10 man raids... more gear options and faster progression for 25.

10 man is fine... the only problem I have with the way it's setup atm is... it's a bit easy for both 10/25 man. It's odd... in 10 mans some things are harder and some are easier then in 25 man same thing.

I don't care about the 10/25 man comparison as long as both zones get harder as we go up in Tear gear. Since Naxx is rather easy then I hope to see Uld ramping up in difficulty quite a bit. Since it is compared with Kara a lot I would hope the next 10 man version would be at LEAST ZA difficulty... then from there even harder in which case only the most hardcore 10 mans will be able to clear.

If that is the case all is well.

[melathys]

This 10/25 man system seems tailor made for a guild like mine. A small group of -very- good players, but have no interest in the drama created by larger "end game" guilds.

I fully expect for us to operate as we have in the past, but with more progression. We run 10 man content on our own very successfully (kara/za) and occasionally work with another guild that does the same thing to fill out a 25 man raid. Its not uncommon for our guild members to fill out the last few spots for some of the bigger guilds going into t5/6 content. The difference in WotLK will be, instead of being stuck in the starter raid (kara) because we don't have the numbers, we get to see all the content. Sure, we won't be as geared as those running 25 man content, but thats fine. When we're called to fill in, as will happen, we won't be wearing T4 gear to T6 content.

Also, as has been mentioned, the 10 and 25 man versions are on different content IDs, so that means you can run naxx twice a week and gear up even faster (if you're in a larger guild running 25 man content).

All in all, great change and will no doubt lead to even more subscribers for Blizzard.

[Jeni]

I welcome the 10-mans.

My current guild got formed because of it.

We're all old "hardcore-raiders"
Started out in vanilla wow and moved thru tbc in a big raiding guild clearing BT before attunements being lifted.. and all was going fine.. Til our old guild broke up because the GM decided to take a wow-break and within 5 minutes of the news breaking 15 raiders had jumped ship over to various other guilds on the server, hoping to get an easy ride, which is fine.. every man for himself and all of that..

What was left is the old "core".. the hard workers..

Some of us that were left are very good friends, we have a blast playing together and didn't really feel like applying to separate guilds, and finding a good raiding guild that is willing to recruit 8-9 players as a bulk just isn't gonna happen..

Hearing about wotlk 10 man raids made us all decide to reroll and start a core of a 10man raiding guild.. Sure we've had to recruit a few new ppl but we've been very picky, not so much with gear as with attitude and skill.. and I feel very excited about starting raiding with this guild/family..

No more whining from that hunter every time he got new gear and had to get new enchants, no more big-guild drama, no more poaching issues, no more carrying those lazy few that just wants an easy ride


We're all aware that we won't have the "top of the line epics" that the 25 man raid guilds will have, but we couldn't care less.. We raid to have fun and see new content, We get gear to be able to raid, we don't raid to get gear..

[kilssii]

something to do at night to ruin next work day

[waq]

something to do at night to ruin next work day

exactly.

[Cris]

the vote says it all!

anyway the most repliers are no guildmasters.
you simply dont know what you are talking about when you are against 10 men raids.

each hardcore guildmaster raiding 5 days a week has no job, no real life friends and enjoys sorting drama for 30+ players while he is not raiding. there ofc will be the exceptions that reply and say "hey i am a guildmaster and killed kiljaeden and i have a life" <- lol.

usualy people get payed for the same work guildmasters do in real life so the sad part here are the wannabe hardcore raiders that are just going with the flow and join organized,progressive guilds that base their success on people that sacrifice with real life for it.

10 men raiding is and can be hard,entertaining,challenging and rewarding.

the only difference is that you are not depending on the "fillers" in a core guild of 15 players~. the 10 retards that you need to fill up are a pain in the arse for 25 raids. on the other hand though you can even get 10 real life friends together to play in a team for 10 men raids ( not often but its possible).

[xebtria]

I think it's like... why the fuck do you really care about?

If you are a 25 man raiding guild... weee fine, raid 25 mans.
You want ZA/Kara feeling? oh well, 10 mans.

gear differences are present between 10 mans and 25 mans. but they are not that huge like t4 vs t5.

it's more like...

.....T 7.....t 8.....t 9.....
....1...2...1...2...1...2....

so... 1 represents 10 man gear, 2 represents 25 man gear - so 10 man gear is abit below the old "fixed gear level" of a Tier set, 25 man gear is a bet above that "fixed gear level", and the actual gear level itself is not present at all.. I hope you see how I mean that. so the differences between 10 man t7, 25 man t7, 10 man t8 and so on are on a smooth transition... better for progress raids, eh

[Tribu]

I think its good change so now EVERYONE whit out any excuses have acces to the content and may experience all the "lore" But in same time leaving the posibility to get beter and go in 25 raids that should be harder to get trough... I think its good change so small guilds can raid other than 2 of the 8

[meadow]

I quite like it. I don't have 24 ingame friends i want to raid with, but 9 are easily found.

[Cûr]

I say WoW needs 72 man raids like EQ used to have.