Warlock PvE DPS

[Lassive]

If your build doesn't have bane, don't post it.

show me an affliction build with bane at lvl 70

[Varithorn1]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

[Lassive]

pretty much the same but 2 different things.

1. Improved Felhunter - I don't know whether this talent is necessary for mana regain and I also don't know whether the raid buff is better than the single buffs (with 2/2)

2. Bane or Imp SB - Have you done any maths about it. To be honest I'm too tired at the moment to think about it but in general you need to decide between 16,6%dmg each SB(0,5sec casttime = 1/6 sb) or 10% more overall dmg(needs some maths about uptime)

I think 10% is better than 16,6%SB dmg without thinking about it in deeper sense. It depends on how often you use SB and which casttime fits better into the rotation. Again: need maths

so for 1. I need comments about testing specced and non specced fights.
and for the 2. we need maths...

[Sephirah]

2. Bane or Imp SB - Have you done any maths about it. To be honest I'm too tired at the moment to think about it but in general you need to decide between 16,6%dmg each SB(0,5sec casttime = 1/6 sb) or 10% more overall dmg(needs some maths about uptime)

Imp SB now only affects direct damage, so you always prefer Bane to it.

[showwow]

I got a question about destro PvE.

I've seen a good amount of posts now regarding on the imp talents in destro...I haven't raided in PTR yet, and i probably won't. The main issue for me is to take the talents buffing the imp or not, because i don't know if a-) the imp will survive more than 2 mins in lets say, Brutallus and b-) will it go OOM in 1 min?.

Basically, if you want to keep your imp DPSing, you should take Demoic Power (2 pts), imp soul leech (5 pts due to the need to take soul leech), and empowerd imp (3 pts). Now these all add up to 10 points, not counting improved imp (3 pts) from demo tree. So instead of taking these imp talents in destro, you can get ISB (for what its worth now) and 5/5 FnB. The question is, will the imp do more DPS than ISB and FnB?

This leaves you with 7/0/52 plus 2 points to spend, without any imp talents, with ISB and FnB. Something like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

[cestrs]

I got a question about destro PvE.

I've seen a good amount of posts now regarding on the imp talents in destro...I haven't raided in PTR yet, and i probably won't. The main issue for me is to take the talents buffing the imp or not, because i don't know if a-) the imp will survive more than 2 mins in lets say, Brutallus and b-) will it go OOM in 1 min?.

Basically, if you want to keep your imp DPSing, you should take Demoic Power (2 pts), imp soul leech (5 pts due to the need to take soul leech), and empowerd imp (3 pts). Now these all add up to 10 points, not counting improved imp (3 pts) from demo tree. So instead of taking these imp talents in destro, you can get ISB (for what its worth now) and 5/5 FnB. The question is, will the imp do more DPS than ISB and FnB?

This leaves you with 7/0/52 plus 2 points to spend, without any imp talents, with ISB and FnB. Something like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00000000000000

i really think imp soul leech will be worth it over ISB (especially as you wont be spamming SB; you will prolly use them situationally, if at all)... as far as imp survival goes, im really worried about it. i cant see it being alive for half a minute on stuff like muru or KJ (or bruttalus unles you place it really well, having totems in mind etc). also the theorycraft says for imp to really be worth it, youd need master demo and maybe demonic empowerement, which would make you compromise a lot. so yeah, as i said before, imo imp ain't worth it atm (especially at 70). but it's for everyone to try out as see for themself. maybe it will work.

[netherflame]

Could anyone tell me why ISB was nerfed so hard?
I have been using the spec linked bellow in T6 equivalent gear and I have been putting up 1250 ish dps In T6 gear(Netherflame~Blackwing Lair)Only difference is I dont have 4 piece on test.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...01000000000000

ISB got nerfed so hard and its really showing.My live dps minimum is near to 2000 but on test I'm lucky to put up 1500.Comments and suggestions are appreciated.

[MortuariusBC]

Could anyone tell me why ISB was nerfed so hard?
I have been using the spec linked bellow in T6 equivalent gear and I have been putting up 1250 ish dps In T6 gear(Netherflame~Blackwing Lair)Only difference is I dont have 4 piece on test.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...01000000000000

ISB got nerfed so hard and its really showing.My live dps minimum is near to 2000 but on test I'm lucky to put up 1500.Comments and suggestions are appreciated.

rebalancing of the dps talent trees

destro is better as fire now due to upper tier talents and isb nerf
affliction you are actually better off going deep affliction... you are missing all the deep affliction talents that boost dot damage... sbolt nuking is great if you are destr/ds spec but drops as affliction/destr spec. My dots on beta are over 50% of my total damage now

[Lassive]

Imp SB now only affects direct damage, so you always prefer Bane to it.

source?

[cestrs]

source?

i guess he means that it affects only the targets shadow dmg. which is true. not DD, but only the casters dmg.

[Lassive]

sephirah - wrong

cestrs - right

imp SB > Bane :P

[cestrs]

imp SB > Bane :P

well i didnt say that now did i .. ... i wouldnt agree with that either

[MortuariusBC]

sephirah - wrong

cestrs - right

imp SB > Bane :P

actually seph was partially right

TBC isb procs increased DoT damage without consuming a charge
Wotlk isb procs increase direct shadow damage or dots cast only while the proc is up (cant have agony rolling and get isb proc and all of a sudden its doing more damage) and it only effects the caster

[cestrs]

Wotlk isb procs increase direct shadow damage or dots cast only while the proc is up (cant have agony rolling and get isb proc and all of a sudden its doing more damage) and it only effects the caster

now i dont think that is true tho? the part about only affecting the DOT when its cast ... source? its not what i read from the latest tooltip.

[netherflame]

TBC ISB was fine.I can see some MINOR percentage nerfs because it would scale so well but seriously this has gone to far.

[stupid11]

actually seph was partially right

TBC isb procs increased DoT damage without consuming a charge
Wotlk isb procs increase direct shadow damage or dots cast only while the proc is up (cant have agony rolling and get isb proc and all of a sudden its doing more damage) and it only effects the caster

no, ISB doesn't affect DoTs at all anymore.

[cestrs]

no, ISB doesn't affect DoTs at all anymore.

again, source?

otherwise .. "Your Shadow Bolt critical strikes increase Shadow damage dealt to the target by 10% until 4 non-periodic damage sources are applied. Effect lasts a maximum of 12 sec." = affects your DOT's

[Tyrionn]

again, source?

otherwise .. "Your Shadow Bolt critical strikes increase Shadow damage dealt to the target by 10% until 4 non-periodic damage sources are applied. Effect lasts a maximum of 12 sec." = affects your DOT's

This is more speculation on my part, but I believe this has to do with the way ISB is now implemented. In TBC, ISB placed a debuff on the target, increasing all shadow damage it received. In WotLK, ISB gives the caster a buff, increasing all shadow damage dealt by the caster. My guess is that because the DoTs used by the caster place a debuff on the target, they are considered seperate sources of damage from the caster. It's not the caster doing the damage, it's the debuff. Each tick of a DoT is handled seperately, but it only checks the debuffs on it's current target, not the buffs on the caster that applied the DoT in the first place.

I'm not sure if this was an unintended consequence of the isb change. Maybe Blizz meant it work this way, maybe not.

/shrug That's my guess.

[cestrs]

This is more speculation on my part, but I believe this has to do with the way ISB is now implemented. In TBC, ISB placed a debuff on the target, increasing all shadow damage it received. In WotLK, ISB gives the caster a buff, increasing all shadow damage dealt by the caster. My guess is that because the DoTs used by the caster place a debuff on the target, they are considered seperate sources of damage from the caster. It's not the caster doing the damage, it's the debuff. Each tick of a DoT is handled seperately, but it only checks the debuffs on it's current target, not the buffs on the caster that applied the DoT in the first place.

I'm not sure if this was an unintended consequence of the isb change. Maybe Blizz meant it work this way, maybe not.

/shrug That's my guess.

as of today, in beta, ISB is still a debuff (eventho it works only for you). and im pretty sure it affects dots too.

[MortuariusBC]

as of today, in beta, ISB is still a debuff (eventho it works only for you). and im pretty sure it affects dots too.

yea the other guy is talking out his ass

it affects ONLY dots that are cast while the debuff is up... it not longer affects dots that are currently ticking meaning it forces you to recast the dot if you want the benefit of the proc and then eats a proc charge