WoTLK Shadow Priest Evaluation

[Brakos]

I'm sick of seeing the tears stream for no reason so gonna drop some personal evaluation information.

First off Dispersion:
-Yes it needs either a snare removal or health regen addition to be PvP Reliant. It's currently viable in select situations but to be truely a staple ability it needs refinement.
-For PvE it's being looked at too narrow minded. Right now due to VT changes on trash we're slacking in damage and mana regen. So every 3 min(not a long wait) you can regen 1/3 of your mana WHILE moving from mob to mob. Also on boss fights you can go all out and nearly oom, refresh VT, pop fiend, and pop disp and in 6 seconds you are full mana. That's HUGE!

Crit:
-Yes we're being nudged a little bit towards crit. But we don't have to dive into it like it's the next best thing. Haste and hit still > crit for us. We get 4% from our own talents. In a raid we'll get the mage's crit debuff and possibly 3% from the retadin debuff. Moral of the story crit will be getting stacked around the board FOR us. So slip in some here and there but keep focus on your spell damage and haste.

Hit:
-From what I'm seeing from EJ 17% hit is needed. The QQ about the changes to misery aside that 3% hit will be huge for us and our raid. We only need 11% hit to cap with that and our spec. And giving our raid 3% hit is almost guaranteeing a raid slot.

Offhealing:
-Spell power changes mean unlike the other mana batteries (ret/surv huntard) we can shift and offheal with good "+healing" instantly. AND we can do it while maintaining VT on the target to keep the regen running. The changes to VT allow us to slip into a situational offheal role easily without nerfing our regen ability so thank the Devs for opening another raid slot for us. (before was owned by elesham/moonkin)

PvP:
-We're not cookie cutter people. So it's never going to be easy for us. I wish they would give us hex/shadowguard across the board to help against powerful melee but that isn't likely. SP PvP will still take a lot of talent, positioning, and awareness to be successful.

-Get better with the talents you have and stop QQ for other things. If you suck with what you have something new isn't gonna help, you're just gonna suck with that ability too.

Please only worthwhile non-childish responses for promotion of intelligent thought on these matters.

[mrvao]

/agree


I can't wait to see how things actually go on Live at 80. My concern is mostly PvP with no DoT protection and we are going to get pwnt by disc priests even harder from the new Dispel Glyph. :-/

[Hallis]

If you suck with what you have something new isn't gonna help, you're just gonna suck with that ability too.

Well said.

[Ida]

PvP:
-We're not cookie cutter people. So it's never going to be easy for us. I wish they would give us hex/shadowguard across the board to help against powerful melee but that isn't likely. SP PvP will still take a lot of talent, positioning, and awareness to be successful.

Roll troll, as I did.

-Get better with the talents you have and stop QQ for other things. If you suck with what you have something new isn't gonna help, you're just gonna suck with that ability too.

Well said x2.

[Nezoia]

Finally someone who wasn't to narrow minded to see Dispersion being useable.

Another place where it's good, is on heavy aoe situations, where you can basicly bubble yourself for 6 seconds !

[Aerv]

Have you ever tryed to heal in a Raid as Shadow? Ur Healing is low also with Heal Gear and u will run out of Mana this was never a point to pick a Shadow.

The 5% hit @ Mistery and raidslot ... look a moonkins plz...
We need only 11% hit ... oh yeah lol ... like every other caster assuming u will always have hit debuff on boss and everyone can skill some %

And Dispersion is nice to have, but u cannot dps and in a 10 min fight im Standing arround for 20sec ... very nice ... lowers dps about 100 ... of couse its worth speccing, but if they would have nerfed isb there would be manaporblem. well the new shadow fiend skill will give us more mana-

[Nezoia]

No, it's 3% hit from Misery.

And Misery is a 24 second debuff applied whenever you apply a SW:P,VT or MF to a target. Should be up constantly.

And Dispersion is nice to have, but u cannot dps and in a 10 min fight im Standing arround for 20sec ... very nice ... lowers dps about 100 ...

You seem clueless about raiding, or have you only done Karazhan?

Lets check where it's ideal to use it in Sunwell:

- Kalecgos: When up and having alot of debuffs mid/end of the fight, and possible have to stop dps due to under is not far enough down.
- Brutallus: Since it only reduce damage, and doesn't make you immune, before a Slash would be very ideal. Or when you run to the burn spot (you can move while having it on).
- Felmyst: Timed right, use it just before Corrosion, and then dispel. Or use it while being Encapsulate. Or finally, use it while running around avoiding the Fog.
- Eredar Twins: While having Flame Sear or Conflagration.
- M'uru: Entry to Phase Two (you should be OOM by that time as well).
- Kil'jaeden: Fire Bloom, Flame Dart Explosion, Armageddon.

Notice all these fits benefit form Improved Shadowform as well.
Also, Dispersion DO reduce damage from DoTs, here's from wowhead:

[Apply Aura]: Mod Dmg % Taken (Arcane, Fire, Frost, Holy, Nature, Physical, Shadow)

Also, on Felmyst, M'uru P2 and Kil'jaeden there's alot of running involved.

You won't loose alot of dps (if any) on using Dispersion. And it's so much better than Evocation since it allows you to move and reduces your damage massively, and pushback won't give lesser mana from it.

[Brakos]

I'm going to toss a reply in here as well.

Offhealing in this instance doesn't mean you shift out to do mild healing on the side. You do that very effectively with VE.

It means if a raid healer(10 man) or several (25 man) bite it you can shift out and heal in their place.

Also the changes to spell power make this viable.

I raid main healed for 2 years holy/disc and can heal heroic 5 mans and small raids like Kara speced shadow presently.

Just because your shadow doesn't mean you're not a priest. Play your class to it's fullest and be more to your team than just a mindless DPSer.

[Caidrin]

See, my problem with shadow priest come expansion, is that im casting the same damn rotations, appart from the initial SW:P. At Worst, im casting LESS spells with SW crits being even more dangerous (killed myself on the PTR after 4 SW's with VE up on the dummy).
I want something FUN to do, not just doing the same damn rotations/priorities i did in BC.

[coolgk]

why are there always some ppl keep thinking that other people complianed without testing in game and all other testers' feedbacks from game are childish except you, just because you are so 'special' can has different opinion from most of the other testers.

It is stupid to only talk about abillities themselves without comparing with other classes, of course every ability is useful in some way, but when you compare with other classes' abilities from the same tier/level, some abilities are not qualified be in the same position. When the game comes to the high end, it is all about competition, both in PVP and PVE, you have to compare with other classes rather than being narrow minded only seeing your own abilites.

[Nezoia]

(killed myself on the PTR after 4 SW's with VE up on the dummy).

Dummies doesn't return health from VE.

it is all about competition, both in PVP and PVE, you have to compare with other classes rather than being narrow minded only seeing your own abilites.

No, it's about having fun. Else we would all play warlocks.

[Ntrails]

Offhealing:
-Spell power changes mean unlike the other mana batteries (ret/surv huntard) we can shift and offheal with good "+healing" instantly. AND we can do it while maintaining VT on the target to keep the regen running. The changes to VT allow us to slip into a situational offheal role easily without nerfing our regen ability so thank the Devs for opening another raid slot for us. (before was owned by elesham/moonkin)

Off healing? How often do have you ever had to do that? I think I did it once in BT cause a tank pulled whilst half our healers weren't there.....other than that - never. Sorry, that is the least useful point you make - in no way will I ever get a raid spot cause i could be an awful healer as well as DPS. Without speccing - you'll be oom and underpowered for healing anything serious. Without gear you will lack mana regen.

Hit:
-From what I'm seeing from EJ 17% hit is needed. The QQ about the changes to misery aside that 3% hit will be huge for us and our raid. We only need 11% hit to cap with that and our spec. And giving our raid 3% hit is almost guaranteeing a raid slot.

Actually - it is far from a guarenteed raid slot. Moonkins* and Ele shamans have the same utility I believe?

Hit is better for all classes up to the cap in most cases. Crit will scale very well for us now I believe. Haste scales only as well as our worst spell - from what I can see. Which is mind flay. I think I'll still be gemming for damage unless a set bonus shows me another way.

Dispersion in PvP has massive uses. It is well worth 1 talent point. It may be a crap 51 pt talent - but even if it were just evocation I would take it..... (The fun thing is trying to keep Shadow weaving and SW:P and crusade and replenish up after dispersion).

PvP.... we shall see.




*No moonkin WANTS to have to use FF but that is not the point.....

[LavaDuck]

I'm sorry, I can't see how you can offheal and keep VT refreshed and keep up mana to do mind blast every 5sec as well as healing without going oom in 2mins.

[dudewheresmydk]

See, my problem with shadow priest come expansion, is that im casting the same damn rotations, appart from the initial SW:P. At Worst, im casting LESS spells with SW crits being even more dangerous (killed myself on the PTR after 4 SW's with VE up on the dummy).
I want something FUN to do, not just doing the same damn rotations/priorities i did in BC.

I see how boring it is, but it's funner than spamming one button (warlock & mage), no?
sure, our dps scales poorly as of now, and we don't see big numbers like warlocks and mages, but i see it going up due to some changes in wotlk?

PS. offhealing is just a bonus
Blizz stated that they want raid leaders to realise who's GOOD and to invite who, not inviting a totally crap person with the RIGHT class. So just wait, and I think spriest is gonna be great =D

[Brakos]

Way too much flame about the offhealing. It wasn't my intention to get people riled up. But quoting current experience with crappy offhealing isn't really relevant since a good deal is changing come expansion.

It's just a crunch time bonus and compared to the other two mana batteries we're the only ones who can shift to offheal AND yes you can keep VT up, just now MB a lot. Hopefully no one will ever have to do this, but you CAN is my base point.

And to coolgk. WTF? Someone piss in your cereal? I posted my opinions and the childishness was useless non-thought out and misdirected rants like your little number. If someone tests something and it's valid power to them. But to the people who read the dispersion tooltip and QQ in the forums for hours they need to shelve it.

Now to everyone that has posted relevant information thanks a lot. I like getting other's takes on things without flame and useless banter. So thank you. ^_^

[Lickytung]

Roll troll, as I did.

They removed priest racials.

[VisualX]

Dispersion- meh i think it sucks for a 51 point.

+hit. If you remember correctly, shadow focus USED (still does on live) to be 10 % and is only 3% now. so with self buffs spriests are still losing 4% from talents. (yes getting a mana cost reduction to it also) Also, Everyone is hitcapped already so adding hit wont guarentee anything. yea, first hitting lvl 80, nobody will be hit capped but they soon will be. rendering the +hit pointless once again. Also as others have posted, moonkin and ele shamans have +hit buffs also.
side note to +hit. I do remember reading some blue post about being able to pass that 1% miss barrier now, unless that has changed. which is also really nice. (meaning EJ is wrong and it is 18% now.)

spellpower- yes it is a good change for switching into healing BUT the mana regen part of it means that while you are "keeping up the mana regen" the person you need to heal is dieing. Remember JUST having VT up does not give mana return. you must have VT up and mind blast for the regen.

crit- although you may be right that spellpower + haste > crit, with the imp spirit tap, shadow power and mindflay being able to crit now... Crit is definantly MUCH closer into the loop.

[Nezoia]

How to secure a raid spot 101

- Don't be a retard
- Always use max consumables
- Never whine
- Be the best of the best
- Play enough to be in the guild core
- Be the stable member the guild can trust on to never screw up

It's not hard, but not everybody got the time to play like that. Nothing wrong with it, but the best way to secure a raid spot is to be in the guild core, those who get invited to the raid first and only is on standby on farm raids where others are getting geared up, or on exceptional boss encounters.

It have nothing to do with your class or your job in the raid, or how much you buff with raid. It's about how good you are as a player, and how good synergi you create with the other players in your guild core.

People who can morale boost is as important as people who can tell stategies. You want both in your raid.

[Ida]

They removed priest racials.

Awesome.

Edit:
Looking through the new build skill list.. where is shadow guard and hex of weakness?

[jkw]

They removed priest racials.

^
l
l

Awesome.

Edit:
Looking through the new build skill list.. where is shadow guard and hex of weakness?

Devouring Plague got nerfed to 15% health from damage made and all Priests gets it.
Symbol of Hope got renamed Hymn of Hope and got spread out among all Priests.
Desperate Prayer became a Tier 3 Holy Talent.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/6/99570...l-changes.html

To clarify: Shadow Guard and Hex of Weakness are going to be REMOVED.