Incoming Paladin changes

[Attica]

Have you paid any attention to the tanking changes?

Not that closely, why else would I be asking?

[Ektoplasme]

Righteous Defense will be an 8 second cooldown. No word on any single-target taunts.

Are you kidding ??? Righteous Defense is better than a single target taunt ! It taunts 1 to 3 mobs out of a friend. It's better in any situation than the warrior taunt. (same cooldown but higher range and multi target)

Ok if you want it to work like the warrior taunt, you need a macro. But in the end our taunt is way better than the warrior/druid's one.

[Realmadrid]

Are you kidding ??? Righteous Defense is better than a single target taunt ! It taunts 1 to 3 mobs out of a friend. It's better in any situation than the warrior taunt. (same cooldown but higher range and multi target)

Ok if you want it to work like the warrior taunt, you need a macro. But in the end our taunt is way better than the warrior/druid's one.

I don't really tank too much on my paladin, but what if the warrior has 3 mobs in him and you need to taunt 1 off him?

[Swedishcow123]

Anyone thought about the pissed off druids?

40 yards on judgement of justice will sure make them a bit cranky

[Strana]

Do you guys realize between beacon, judgment, sacred shield, and seal your going to be having to refresh 4.5 buffs per minute? Add another 3 per minute if you actually want to keep your judgment up since it only lasts 15s. 45 buffs in a 10 minute boss fight. Seems like a lot of constant rebuffing.

durations
Beacon 1m
JotP 1m
SS 30s
Seal 2m
Judgment on mob 15s.

[Ektoplasme]

I don't really tank too much on my paladin, but what if the warrior has 3 mobs in him and you need to taunt 1 off him?

Oh come on ! Does this situation happen a lot ? Not really. On the other hand, what if a healer pulled aggro on 3 mobs and the warrior wants to taunt all 3 of them ? well he can't whereas a Paladin can. To have both types of taunt is better (obviously...) but if you only have one, the paladin one is better.

[NydusTemplar]

You taunt, the three turn toward you, he taunts one back, claps, smacks the other with Rev/Dev/SS/Conc Blow/Hero Strike to burst 10% above your threat, meanwhile you apply RS/Judge to the one you want, then get him far enough away to avoid splash, then drop RH and Consec.

But let's be real, it'll be the warrior pulling one from us.

Druids will always be cranky about JoJ, even if its melee range on a 30 min cooldown, because they don't like that someone has their number on mobility, oh, but Divine shield is totally OP(ignoring Mass Dispel). WTB Community Balance.

I don't know that it will be so huge of a deal, yeah a bit more annoying, but Seal + Judge Wisdom is gonna be your equiv spi regen, and Beacon will probably be something you'll only need during AoE. Honestly though, I'd say that Judgements of Wisdom & Light, Beacon, and SacShi all could use a longer duration. JoJ should only be 15 sec or so for obvious reasons.

[MrMcFlurry]

Oh come on ! Does this situation happen a lot ? Not really. On the other hand, what if a healer pulled aggro on 3 mobs and the warrior wants to taunt all 3 of them ? well he can't whereas a Paladin can. To have both types of taunt is better (obviously...) but if you only have one, the paladin one is better.

Well, to be honest, ive seen it happen a lot for myself before. Some tank taunting a mob that's run into the casters to save their hide, and since he cant put down good enough threat on multiple targets like a paladin (given that's changing to a degree, at least high enough for passive aggro retention) i have needed to take it off of him to handle it.


Though, another more common occurance is when you are given a pair of big mobs, if one slipped away from the pally and went to the group, and the OT was quick enough to take it with a taunt (or some spawn or sheep broke or whatever causing teh same situation) the pally taunting off of him will bring everything back onto him and likely kill him while the OTs taunt cools. Best location i can think to describe this is just before nalorakk in ZA. 2 CCed mobs plus 2 heavy hitters who spawn extras.

Though, that said, this limitation is in my opinion more than a fair trade off for being able to taunt 3 at once. Only problem occurs when you have multiple paladin tanks....then it becomes nigh impossible to pull solitary adds off each other.

[Moo]

Oh come on ! Does this situation happen a lot ? Not really. On the other hand, what if a healer pulled aggro on 3 mobs and the warrior wants to taunt all 3 of them ? well he can't whereas a Paladin can. To have both types of taunt is better (obviously...) but if you only have one, the paladin one is better.

It happens alot.

The worst was when we were running 2 paladin tanks, we needed to take a mob each and separate them... which is pretty fucking hard... you cant out threat the other pally easily due to concecrate and holyshield and you cant taunt a single one... ended up having to ping pong them till we could scrape one off with a big enough jdugement.

[Realmadrid]

It doesn't happen a lot because there are not a lot of paladin tanks in end game raids.
But now paladin tanks get more viable for tanking I think it occur more then it used to be.

And yes as mentioned before ZA is a good example, like the mobs before bear boss.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

The only problem with rebuffing seal on self, Sacred shield on players, and judge targets, its the GCD.

Since judgement, cast seal and Sacred shield now triggers GCD, we will lose alot of time on GCD, and we could be healing on this time. Maybe in 25man our target wont die becose theres other healers, but in 5 or 10man, a GCD can kill our target for sure.

Is at least judgements and Seal back to not trigger GCD, then this would be viable.

[sillverhair]

am i blind or is everyone else blind it says beacon doesnt instead of bacon?

[mean]

Explain me something, BoS is a 21 points on the prot tree, so a paladin cant get it and be efective on his role of healing or dps (quite good now big gratz), you cry about many craps stuff, but neve ever seen no one saying:

"Put BoS on holy tree, or to a lower tier on the tree."

This is the best blessing paladins ever had, and do wonders on your tanks, and to have it on raids we will have to gimp a paladin on his/her role to have it. Not good.

Please start a petition for this and not for crap stuffs like righetous defense or other craps.

[Lumidar]

Explain me something, BoS is a 21 points on the prot tree, so a paladin cant get it and be efective on his role of healing or dps (quite good now big gratz), you cry about many craps stuff, but neve ever seen no one saying:

"Put BoS on holy tree, or to a lower tier on the tree."

This is the best blessing paladins ever had, and do wonders on your tanks, and to have it on raids we will have to gimp a paladin on his/her role to have it. Not good.

Please start a petition for this and not for crap stuffs like righetous defense or other craps.

Are you retarded... BoSanc is meant to be a PROTECTION Talent so that prot pallies pick it up and you're QQing that holy pallies can't pick it up without staying efficient at healing? then don't f*kin pick it up...... Use your healing talents and i'll use my prot ones. that's how things work.

[custos]

Dont see why people want a aoe heal as a paladin... some times it might be usfull, but a paladin has its own healing style, and if we get a aoe heal now we are almost identical whit priests. We are tank healers, and if u dont like that, you should have rerolled ages ago.

Id say the changes are pretty darn good, and cant wait to heal in WOTLK

[Sulika]

The same cycle as TBC will repeat. Paladin will be fine in the early, low mobility raids, probably even eclipsing the other healers in 25 man only to slowly drift into obscurity again when the later, harder raids are created. Ten man 2 healer runs will again prefer not to take a holy paladin since their weakness on AoE will again lead to unnescessary deaths.

The TBC standard for paladin failure is ZA. That instance can easily be done with 2 resto shamans or 2 priest healers. Try doing it with 2 paladins and see how that goes ...

As for arena, don't expect your paladin to be doing much healing. Not only is holy still the most vulnerable caster to counterspell but our ability to defend against sap and blind which somewhat offset that is totally gone now. The only heals you will be getting off will be that holy shock. Any scrub rogue could keep a paladin from casting a single heal anyway on live forcing you to bubble, now they don't even have to, just sap and blind and dps your teammates and you will have no option but to bubble anyway.

[mean]

Are you retarded... BoSanc is meant to be a PROTECTION Talent so that prot pallies pick it up and you're QQing that holy pallies can't pick it up without staying efficient at healing? then don't f*kin pick it up...... Use your healing talents and i'll use my prot ones. that's how things work.

Are you dumb? Thats what i am saying it should be on the wrong tree, if it is to be put on the tank to help protect him and also gives rage back on an amazing stream, more rage mora aggro everyone knows that, why the hell is on the wrong tree??

Its a waste of a raid spot to have a semi healer paladin or a semi dps paladin just to pick that talent and to put it on the tank to rise is rage generation, so it should be putted on a efective paladin tree and not on that overrated one, no one will raid with mains paladins in the consecration spamming tree, now that warriors return to the tanking throne and druids are also good at it for efective OTs, so dont understand the noob reply you did!!! :/

[Lumidar]

Its a waste of a raid spot to have a semi healer paladin or a semi dps paladin just to pick that talent and to put it on the tank to rise is rage generation, so it should be putted on a efective paladin tree and not on that overrated one, no one will raid with mains paladins in the consecration spamming tree, now that warriors return to the tanking throne and druids are also good at it for efective OTs, so dont understand the noob reply you did!!! :/

So now you're saying prot pallys should not be invited to raids so that'S why Holy needs to have this buff... cus there's no way in hell a prot pally would be in the raid?

you're basically saying that a Prot pally is NOT a viable main tank? that its obviously going to bbe a warrior with a druid off-tank?? Sorry pal but this buff is staying in the Prot tree cus it makes us Viable and we need it.

[mean]

So now you're saying prot pallys should not be invited to raids so that'S why Holy needs to have this buff... cus there's no way in hell a prot pally would be in the raid?

you're basically saying that a Prot pally is NOT a viable main tank? that its obviously going to bbe a warrior with a druid off-tank?? Sorry pal but this buff is staying in the Prot tree cus it makes us Viable and we need it.

Thats a harsh way to say "i wanan go to raids, look tanks i have BoS!!!" my god!!!!

In actual WoW, Paladins in protection tree are surelly efective in raids ofcourse, and are good to tank when they outgear the boss by large, and unmatched on trash mobs and in 5 man, again if they outgear the spot.

If they dont outgear the instance they will surelly crowd control or they will die fast and no uber healer will be able to save them.

After the expansion warriors will be able to AoE tank like crazy, also druids have some neet habilities for it, and paladins get amazing buffs on the retribution tree and are now very good dpsers, so tell me, in a focused progression guild, why take a paladin protection?

To loose and efective spot in raid just for a single buff on the tanks?

And would you feel good to have the tanks asking you for that buff every time CD is going down and staying there just watching the fights?

The way blizz did the things prot paladins lost they trash tank spot, im sorry to say i have being tested and see that we can now do any 25 man raid (outlands) with only 2 warriors tanking (and also outputting awesome dps if they now how to play) no more need to swap players for anything, and no more slacking tanks sleeping while poor paladin was tanking trash.

Warriors are made for tanking, always have, i dont admit a warrior in my raids or parties that dont have a tanking set, as a warrior if you dont wanna tank go do PvP, normal PvE warrior is a tank, normal PvE raid tank is a warrior full protection tree.

You cant have it all, if you have heal spells cant have tanking spells thats the way it is and soon we will get there, and this game will return to be World of Warcraft.

So please refrain you attitudes, remeber you are not playing this game alone, if you wanna play with others have to give away something (help the team they need healer you go, they need dps you go, they doing a low level run you can tank quite well and never get out of rage you dont use it) and get something in return (team will give you epics).

Stay well!

[Lumidar]

give away something? you're the arrogant basterd here saying Pallys can't tank Raid content... they could Main tank progression in TBC and they will in WOTLK as well. Warriors are not the only protection tree that got buffed. Paladins now have 2 active threat generation skills, 1 as a hammer hitting up to 3 mobs and another as a shield slam single target ability. I never said the only reason i would be taken to a raid is because of my Buff either. I was simply saying that holy does not actually need it and that prot would use 100% of the time as a self buff which is how it was intended.

something tells me you have not played PTR or Beta or you would know Prot Pallies are now Amazing tanks and are meant to be on Par with warriors, druids and DKs as of 3.0

don't give me any crap that Warriors will always be MT crap. There is no reason to specifically choose a warrior anymore.