what the hell, since when were priests the most complicated healing class? zomg no shaman/pally/druid healer can make intelligent decisions!Originally Posted by noxmonk
what the hell, since when were priests the most complicated healing class? zomg no shaman/pally/druid healer can make intelligent decisions!Originally Posted by noxmonk
You sir are a complete moron.Originally Posted by Devia
If you would've taken the time to read everything i wrote so far you would have noticed that downranking is not only about spamming just one button because you can do it without ever being oom. Downranking was about chosing the correct rank of GH or even FH to conserve mana and fit the situation.
As i stated, i was mostly using GH1,3,7 and FH8. This is not laziness, nor brainless. Lazy and brainless is spamming your max rank GHs - oh wait, you don't spam, you click, abort, click, abort, click, abort, click, abort your spells. As if that wouldn't be brainless and lazy.
I can agree with that. Though i have to point out that slyy made a good example for my case. Having a downranking priest means every 2.5 secs a heal on your tank. Having a non-downranking priest means you could have a heal on your tank every ~3 secs (accounting for slack in your rotation here). "Could" is just not good enough on fights like Brutallus.The better priest will be better.
Why don't you stop acting so high and mighty? Just because you have a "special rank" on these forums does not mean you are always right nor does it make you better than everyone else. The fact is, Venara, that you will soon have no choice in the matter of down-ranking. So, if you are so skilled then this will be no problem at all because someone like you who has all the best priest moves will be unaffected by this change, right? So then what's the problem?Originally Posted by Venara
And what does your argument about the 2.5 sec vs 3 sec have to do with anything? You do realize that all of the ranks of greater heal are 3 seconds cast time untalented, right? Besides, how many raids do you go on where priests are the only healers? If you answer any at all then your guild has problems. The best thing about druids is being able to have a heal on the tank during every single second so that healers like priests can be charging their big heals when needed. This is called.....SYNERGY. OoOoOooooo
Um, no you don't just stand there and click, abort, click, abort. SOMETIMES you DO let the heal land. This is when you THINK and decide whether you should let your heal land or wait and start casting another one. Man no wonder you went to down-rank spamming if you couldn't figure that out.Originally Posted by Venara
Originally Posted by DeviaIs everyone here determined to be as mindlessly stupid as possible?Originally Posted by Devia
Downranking = win. Call it "skill" call it... ummm whatthehell ever you want to call it, but downranking gives you more options. Constants heals for low mana cost. You don't have to worry (you might call it thinking, but if "thinking" requires sometimes letting your tank die I'll take the "mindless" way out) about your tank getting shit on by a parry-spike or brutallus Mh/Oh game-over combo.
Sure, you CAN heal w/o downranking but it is dicey. Stop trying to make it look like you are "smarter" by "thinking" for when you need to heal. That is, in reality, just you taking stupid chances with your tank and, in essence, your raid. Your stupid ass would be booted from a real, top-end guild in about 2.5 seconds, the time it takes for your downranking budides to notice how stupid you are.
Have to agree with Venara here while stopcasting macro can be as good as downranking it can never be better.Originally Posted by Venara
When a boss parryes his next hit will come 50% faster so if u stopcast ur grater heal just in the moment he parryes ur tank will take incredible burst and u didnt landed any heals (while a downranking priest did).
Plus GH rank 1 in BT/SWP (even SSC/TK gear with 2xT5) gear was practically free and could crit any time -> INSPIRATION...+25% armor...
There are to many pluses in favor of downranking. While I respect those that didnt use it its a matter off skill to use stopcasting and downranking... The main purpose was to keep ur tank alive and downranking was a better choice if only for the chance to crit and proc inspiration FOR FREE!!
AoC was obvious fail from the start. Anyone who thought otherwise was too wrapped up in being a fan-boy or retarded. Take your pick Devia.Originally Posted by Devia
Warhammer is different. I don't claim it will "kill" WoW, but I like it. It is fun in its own way. WoW would do well to learn a few things, which, if you read the blizzcon posts, you'll know that Blizzard is taking some ideas from Warhammer. Good for them. They will have a better game for it.
I've never played a healing class seriously in raids (a little bit of resto shammy in ZA and Kara when people needed me to respec), and I'd have to say in my practice I've never done much downranking, so consider my opinion unbiased :-P
It seems the Anit-downrankers are missing the point of what the downrankers say.  Downrankers don't just spam rank 4 GH all day long, they judge the situation, decide which power of heal is needed, then cast the appropriate heal.  That looks like thinking to me, they just do their thinking at the beginning of their cast bar, deciding how much health they need to restore.
Non-downrankers spam max-rank GH all the time, then before it lands, they judge the situation, and decide if the mana is worth spending on a big heal at this point.  They are just doing their thinking at the end of the cast bar.
Really, the argument of skill vs no-skill is totally a non-issue.  Sure one may be proven to be better (my hunch is downranking is better, or else bliz wouldn't feel a need to remove it), but either requires some level of thinking and considering the situation and decision making about how much healing to do.
Main: Enhance Shaman
Current alt status:
80 Unholy DK - 80 Feral Druid - 80 Disc Priest
80 Ret Paladin - 80 Arcane Mage - 80 Prot Warrior
77 Warlock - 80 Marks Hunter - 75 Rogue
I participated in the legendary Bacon thread.
I just want to ask all you non-downrankers one thing - who or what will heal the tank when he is short in hp on half of your gh value? In some fights not healing this shortage will spike-kill the tank. Pre wotlk - downranking was the ultimate answer. Simple as that imo.
Never downranked a spell in my life and our guild killed Illidan. Sorry thats not SWP but it IS high end. I also rarely run oom as I know to push my mp5, use pots, and send my pet in as I get to 50% mana. Now thats on my priest.Originally Posted by Ufalah
On my paladin I USED To downrank holy light to keep the timer shortened, however, I found that was a waste of time when I could, instead, use that time for resting my mana if needed. Also I balanced crit and mp5 JUST for that reason.
If you needed to downgrade, then I daresay you will have MANY problems in the next patch if you cannot get used to timing your spells correctly and managing your mana otherwise.
Thing is.. its easy to call people a moron because they didnt take an easier route, like you. However, as I said it IS an EASIER route and therefore you must learn to play BETTER than you do now.
A little clue on how to play better: Instead of investing in ALL plus healing and downranking your spells, invest more in MP5 and Spirit. You'll find that when you are killing Illidan you can manage it with 450 mp5 and only 1950 plus healing rather than 2100-2200 plus healing and 350 mp5.
What I"m basically saying is: You need to l2p your class properly. Which means you need to sit down and watch how your mana regens without any raid buffs.. Practice chain casting for a while, then practice chain casting and resting between every 5 or 7 casts for a couple extra seconds (playing in the fsr), then practice playing in the fsr more often and less often.
You will learn that some fights let you fight in the fsr for maybe 20 seconds of the whole fight.. but some fights will let you play with it every 3rd heal.
THAT is how to play a class. NOT downranking which makes it SO easy.
In fights without an fsr period then you need to make sure that you have a shadowpriest or shaman in your group
Originally Posted by MrMacca
Don't judge yourself or others by healing meters. Healing is a "results oriented" business - you can only judge your healing by the life and death of your group/raid, and especially the tank.
I have a holy priest and prot warrior and prot pally. I know who lets me die and who keeps me alive, the good healers are not usually at the top of the healing meters.
Sorry. Easier is one thing, but downranking was also more effective. So stop pretending your way was somehow more skilled. It was less effective, gave greater margin for error, and relied on different parameters.Originally Posted by Pyxi
However - everyone will have to learn the new way of playing. They will not, however, be playing better or properly - only differently.
L2P is what every downranker should and could have said to you before the patch. The fact that blizzard removed the option does not make you in some way superior.
mixed convos on this topic, but as far as priests go im really hoping that holy is just as FUN at 80 as it is now. they could of done more to give it more utility. but ah well if everyone whines long enough they'll patch in somthing.
as for downranking ive never bothered with it, back in the days of benecast (addon) probably one of the only heal-assisting addons i could find back then .. I think that used to downrank itself, ofc toggleable. but apart from that ive never needed to down rank, come to think of it i havnt really needed haste either, i did heal considerably less than ppl in a Illidan kill run. but they also had more tier 6 than me and where shammys spamming chain heal(mostly)
pre-casting is where its at. pots/sf/innervate .. or good use of the earring+clearcast+innerfocus combo. (I stack spirit)
i think i use heal rank 4 somtimes in heroics if hardly anyone is taking damage, I hear they remove that next patch? .. not a very good heal but very efficent on mana. its a bit like down ranking in a sence.
remember in a 25 man your not the only one healing, and ending a fight when you still have 8k mana is good why?
basically im not going to miss bieng able to downrank .. it was a nice feature which makes the game, take more brain power(adds more complexity/choice)... or just require more forethought, but its deffinatly not the first, last or the only thing they will remove altogether.
Im also a healing meter topper(without boasting at all), and getting there isn't by choice its just by doing what im supposed to do, overhealing has never bothered me, I'm not going to stand there spamming max rank greater heals on ppl who are full hp, but i do watch the health bars, when damage is bieng dealt, max ranks are casted and stopcasted until i 'think' its time to finish the cast, and try to land heals that dont overheal. as we now on live, mana for me is only an issue on fights where its full-out-from-the-get-go bb/teron .. fights like that I go oom reasonably fast (usually running on regen heals by 10%) but thats ment to happen, thats what a dps race is and we do have a shadowfiend for a reason.
Here is your first problem. BT is ez-mode compared to SWP. SWP is what "hardcore" raiding is all about. You can NOT carry dead weight in SWP. Brutallus teaches you what "mana efficiency" is.Originally Posted by Pyxi
Because you "balanced" your crit and mp5 you NEEDED to "rest" your mana. Just plug 22+healing in every red slot, 11+healing/2mp5 in blue, and, once you have around 2200+healing, stack haste. Do that and 4 max rank FoL + 1 rank 4 HL rotation is sufficent to maintain mana while being able to keep your tank topped off. No reason to "think" or "put your tank in needless danger by trying to judge RNG". You win and progress. While Divine Illumination is up use max rank HL + Divine Favor for max-mana return. Overhealing doesn't matter. Winning matters.Originally Posted by Pyxi
Pretty arrogant of you. You assume that because I downrank and you don't, you are the superior player. For someone who didn't get to SWP you talk a lot.Originally Posted by Pyxi
Plus, though I have yet to play beta, the mana regen rates of all casters is being increased as compensation for the lack of downranking. RAID WIDE s-priests, RAID-WIDE JotW etc. So, are you going to start the fight at half-mana because all those raid buffs make it too "easy" and you have to prove what a good player you are? Please. Welcome to reality. The way the has the highest chance of saving your tank/raid = the best. Skill is irrelevant.
More pretentious bullshit. Who are you to decide what is "proper." Every healer in my guild, remember that SWP guild that you aren't in?, downranks. Why? Because it works. Now that will change. I'm sure that since we were skilled enough to out-progress you we will be more than skilled enough to adapt to the changes Blizzard is making.Originally Posted by Pyxi
Problem with non-downranking /stopcasting healing is that it works ... until tier 6 content. Hell, it may be fine on some BT bosses, but not in Sunwell.
The MTs are taking so much damage in so little time that you simply must not stop casting. The heals must land, and you can't keep up with spamming max rank.
Imagine if all the MT healers used the "preemptive+stopcasting" technique, the tank would fall over dead in a matter of seconds.
No matter how you want to twist it: the ability to downrank properly was an indicator, sorting out the crap players from the good ones.
Just for all non-priests out there... some of us dont classify ourselves as neither "Downrankers" or "Stopcasters". Some of us actually use different approaches to different fights, or different approaches to the same fight, depending on what other healers you have a long this particular night.
Both approaches have their different pros and cons. You cannot go with a one-size-fits-all decision at the start of an end game raiding season. Sometimes you wanna land plenty of tiny heals, to proc Inspiration and other nifty things. Sometimes you wanna try and grab as many oofsr spirit ticks as possible. The entire discussion in this thread surprises me.
meh hardly any of the wow population got to experience swp, so what that place requires in skill, doesnt really mean fk all. if that one place alone required ppl to downrank. cool. i also think its cool if you got there. but basing the argument on downranking ONLY because you 'NEED' to do so in swp, doesn't mean shit all. besides everything getting a 30% hp nerf next patch .. I doubt swp will require that much min/maxing at all.
saying ppl who don't downrank are crap players is pretty narrow-minded.
All this arguing about which is better.
Blizz has no spoken on which they prefer you to do. So all you downrankers are gonna have to learn to stopcast, starting tomorrow.
This. And...Originally Posted by Heathy
This.Originally Posted by Buddahnator
All you "down-rankers" need to be slapped in the face and have your egos squeezed out of you. Why? Because no matter how AWESOME you are and how much FAIL all the non down-rankers are, guess what? Your awesomeness is coming to an end. Now, if you have to play like everyone else and you are still so much better than they are, then you can be awesome again.
All of these "crap players" you speak of are the ones who have been playing the game the way Blizzard intended. What's so bad about that?
Apparently Blizzard decided what is "proper". Oh, and guess what? Since Blizzard never intended for down-ranking to be a part of the game I'll bet you could have done SWP WITHOUT it. We are not going to bow down and worship your hiney so you can just shove your face in that it because your points here will soon become INVALID. So STOP claiming down-ranking is so much better because IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE.Originally Posted by Ufalah
Oh and for the record, overheal doesn't mean jack shit if your tank doesn't die and you don't run out of mana. So if people have figured out how to socket/enchant their gear and use high rank spells while also accomplishing those goals says to me that THEY know how to play.
I simply thought it looked fun because I wanted to try something new - it had a lot of different things than WoW and their ideas had the potential to succeed. So I'm sorry to say that doesn't fall into either of your categories. I don't understand why you feel the need to lash out at me because I didn't lash out at you nor did I put down Warhammer. I simply said that AoC did the same type of thing and it failed - in other words being different/new doesn't necessarily mean success. If Warhammer is fun, then great. Go play it. Spare us your insolence.Originally Posted by Ufalah