Dispersion versus other DPS-caster end talents

[Deleted]

IMO in pve the mana regen from dispersion while not beeing able to cast equals to mage evocation and the mage doesnt use a talent point for it. So maybe dispersion should have also some other utility(i can only think at pvp utility like aoe fear after it ends or fear if you are hit while having the buff or cc breaking if casted while cc).
Anyway the 1 talent point use is not so bad if we take in consideration that sp has the smallest amount of talents required to fill the shadow tree.

For the moment, considering how sp was before... now i'm cool and i just wanna see how it will work at lvl 80.

[Nezoia]

So maybe dispersion should have also some other utility

Damage reduction , and the ability to move while regenning?

Seriously, have you people never done a dungeon where you take damage?

[nazrakin]

so dispersion is somewhat good for that, but also remember that you can't cast while your in dispersion meaning you loose valuable dps time and also on that not you gotta be picky when to use it so your not in dispersion with no dots up.

That's no different than Mages losing 8seconds of DPS to Evocation or Warlocks losing 1.5seconds from each lifetap.

[Ntrails]

8% free mana every 45 secs ya yur gonna be poping it eveytime its up

In 1 min 30 secs you have spent 3 seconds silenced for 16% mana

So in 2mins and 15 seconds you have spent 4.5 seconds silenced for 24% mana.

In 3 mins you have spent 6 seconds silenced for 32% mana.

Yes Haste will reduce the time silenced. Minimally.

Do you see the irony? At least our DoTs are still effective whilst silenced AND we can time it to minimise impact.

GCD is expensive. Especially to an ele shaman

[Lostprophet]

Shaman will reg in 180s (3min) 40% Mana but they loses 7.5s from Gcds and the Sideeffekt(AoE dmg and Knockback) wont find a use in PvE, so Dispersion win :>

0s=8% 45s=16s etc

Will Firemages cast Living Bomb on a single target? if not... dispersion win again..

i was yesterday in naxx(10) with premadelol gear... i was oom mostly at the end of a fight WITH dispersion and 3min fiend but i didnt have manapots.. so ..

3/3 Meditation was there quite useless coz of the lack of spirit on the gear :<

[Freyros]

I figured, for fun, we should try and compare our 51 point dps talent with the others, from a PvE perspective.

51pt Abilities

Shadow Priest: Dispersion (36% mana, 90% damage reduction for 6 seconds)

Mage:
- Arcane: Arcane Barrage (Instant burst damage, low CD)
- Fire: Extra single target dps to full fire (Fire DoT)
- Frost: 5 second stun on frozen targets (30 second CD)

Warlock
- Affliction: Haunt (Extra DoT with some PvP effects)
- Demo: Metamorphis (Makes you into a demon, lolololol)
- Chaos Bolt (Pew Pew long cast shadowbolt to be used against paladins)

Elemental Shaman: Thunderstorm (AoE, knockback, restores 5% mana)

Balance Druid (Moonkin): Starfall (AoE)

Resume

So we got the mage, who wouldn't spec full either full frost or arcane, since both tree's suck. They get a fire DoT, fitting for a full dps class with no real raid-dps buffs. Nothing big compared to Dispersion, special on mana tight situations.

And then we got warlocks, they got really got shafted no? 3 pretty much useless abilities for PvE, the affliction one being the best one, but we all know affliction will suck badass with +haste on all gear. Sure DoTs can crit, but it won't be THAT good.

Shamans... well, shamans get a AoE, sure the knockback effect looks awesome, but the pratical PvE effect is equal zero. The regen is also very minimal.

And finally druids. Druids get a AoE , nothing more nothing less.

Of all the casters, I think Fire-Mages got the best 51pt talent, and priest having the second best.

Mana regen is essencial on all fights. And so is damage reduction. Alot more than AoE ever will be.

Mate, let me do this again for you...

Warlock:
- Haunt: it does dmg on its own and increases the dmg done by DoTs by 20% for 12s.
- Metamorphosis: increases dmg done by 20% for 30s and you also gain new demonic spells.
- Chaos Bolt: stronger than Shadow Bolt or Incinerate, so it will be used every cooldown.

Mage:
- Arcane Barrage: nice burst dmg, but probably it's mana cost is too high to use it often.
- Living Bomb: extra DoT with some cool effects.
- Deep Freeze: a pvp talent.

Druid:
- Starfall: probably a waste of mana, but since it's not channeled, it's much better for DPS than the treants.

Shaman:
- Thunderstorm: instant dmg with zero mana cost and bonus mana regen PvE, but requires you to run close to the boss.

I'm not sure how on Earth you could say that the warlock talents are useless, since all of them sound awesome and are actually increasing the DPS. Also your saying that the Arcane and Frost trees suck is hmm... puzzling. Are you a mage specialist, or what?

Anyway, all but the Frost Mage get abilities good for PvE DPS. While shadowpriests get what for PvE? A mana regen, that's lower than from a Shadowfiend and that shouldn't be needed because we already have one mana regaining spell (the mentioned Shadowfiend).

The 90% dmg reduction isn't even that good for PvP, since it only prolongs your inevitable doom for 6 seconds, when there's a rogue on your back and you can't do anything but run, silenced.

[Ntrails]

Shaman will reg in 180s (3min) 40% Mana but they loses 7.5s from Gcds and the Sideeffekt(AoE dmg and Knockback) wont find a use in PvE, so Dispersion win :>

Sorry - but you seem to be assuming they will use the ability at 0 seconds, which seems rather odd - since they would be at full mana. In fact, the decent elementals will use it only when they know the fight will run long enough to be worth it, after a potion. Rather like I would use dispersion - only when the fight in guarenteed to require it, with all other options coming first.


And

Mage:
- Arcane Barrage: nice burst dmg, but probably it's mana cost is too high to use it often.
- Living Bomb: extra DoT with some cool effects.
- Deep Freeze: a pvp talent.

Druid:
- Starfall: probably a waste of mana, but since it's not channeled, it's much better for DPS than the treants.

Shaman:
- Thunderstorm: probabaly a waste for PvE, but very nice for PvP.

Mages will probably be speccing deep fire, since it has the highest DPS at current play. Deep freeze is a strong PvP talent and a weak PvE one. Arcane barrage is going to be pretty useless to mages who will be missing their old school SP regen. The fire one will probably make it into rotations, but all it does is add an extra spell for fire. Lucky them.

Druids: Almost 80% of raiding druids won't have starfall. Despite the bloat reductions.

Shaman: As quoted above it is, for PvE, just a mana regen talent. Like ours.....

Warlocks got some nice talents, Haunt is very strong. Chaos bolt is ok, but its best quality should be its scaling. Demon form is a bit lol. I do not expect it to compete.


In PvP, 90% damage for 6 seconds gives time for Scream to cooldown, and weakened soul, and VE heals, and DoT damage, and MB cooldown to reset and...... etc. It does help. It does not make SP super - but better. If you cannot do better with it than without it - then something is very wrong.

[Freyros]

In PvP, 90% damage for 6 seconds gives time for Scream to cooldown, and weakened soul, and VE heals, and DoT damage, and MB cooldown to reset and...... etc. It does help. It does not make SP super - but better. If you cannot do better with it than without it - then something is very wrong.

I'm perfectly aware of the possibilities it gives, but still I have a strong feeling it's not enough to be as good as rogue's CoS. Personally, I'd add something like health regen (like it was in the first builds of this talent) or "direct attacks against you horrify the attackers for 2s". And that's for PvP only. For PvE, I liked the overpowered 25% to dmg done for 1 min if you didn't receive any dmg while dispersed, but I'd nerf it to something reasonable, like 10-15% for 30s.

Warlocks got some nice talents, Haunt is very strong. Chaos bolt is ok, but its best quality should be its scaling. Demon form is a bit lol. I do not expect it to compete.

Why laughable? It's a very good talent and probably better than the other two. Or do you mean the whole tree?

[Lostprophet]

Sorry - but you seem to be assuming they will use the ability at 0 seconds, which seems rather odd - since they would be at full mana. In fact, the decent elementals will use it only when they know the fight will run long enough to be worth it, after a potion. Rather like I would use dispersion - only when the fight in guarenteed to require it, with all other options coming first.

I didnt. i just told that in compare to Dispersion. When Shamans uses this spell , then i start to count. And 0s is there right. So over 3 min they loose 5 GCD's = 7.5s(assuming 0 Haste)

If u count it over the fight , its depends. What will we use first ? Dispersion or fiend? Mostly, it wont matter unless the 90% dmg reduction would be helping in some way.

[chalid]

Druids: Almost 80% of raiding druids won't have starfall. Despite the bloat reductions.

Just for the protokoll. 10k Damage (on a Single Target testet on lvl 70, so assume ~15k in Naxx gear) for one global CD is quite usefull. Assuming you do about 3k DPS its an increase of about 60 DPS. There are only 8 Talent Points in the Balance Tree that give a higher DPS increase (in Naxx gear). So every Balance Druid that does not take Starfall has to go back to his math classes.

[Harima]

Dispersion helps, but by no means do i think its worth a 51 point talent.

IE)
Mage: Ice Block - immune to all effects until MD
Pally: Divine Shield - immune to all effects until MD (and no chaos bolt wont go through, chaos bolt will only effect Absorb or Resist)
Rogue: Cloak of Shadows - 90% resist on spells.

now if i look through those, are any of them 51 point talents? If my memory serves me right, the only one thats a talent is CoS and thats at 41. the rest of the group gets those through learned skills. Either bump dispersion up to 41 like rogues or make it worth a 51 point talent.

[Panoramixe]

Dispersion does more than just dmg prevention though.
Cloak of shadows is baseline too though.

[Bluetoez]

This is what diserpsion should be
You dispersion into pure shadow energy, Restoring 6% of your total mana every second for 6 seconds. while dispersed all attacks against you are added to you health. This spell can be used while feared, stunned or silenced.
3 min cd.

So if we have a retri pala, he pops all his cds, stun, use dispersion and ur at 20% hp at the time, u'll be back at 100% in no time. That is what this talent needs to be. I've seen someone suggest it on the Beta forums btw

[Nezoia]

If u count it over the fight , its depends. What will we use first ? Dispersion or fiend? Mostly, it wont matter unless the 90% dmg reduction would be helping in some way.

M'uru:
- Phase 1: Dispersion & Shadowfiend
- Phase 2: Haste Potion + Shadowfiend (2nd use)

Kil'jaeden:
- End of Phase 2: Shadowfiend
- Phase 3: Dispersion (Flame Darts) + Haste Potion (Nuking to 55%)
- Phase 4 / 5: Shadowfiend

That seem to be the initial best choices atm. , atleast for me.
Also, I'll be requiring Improved Shadowform for both bosses.

And I'm 110% sure that Dispersion will outperform any other lame arse talent you could put 1 point in, by huge margins. Atleast on the two fights above.

Rest on Sunwell is on farm status, so why would I bother about building a talent build for that.

Noidonotcareaboutitnotbeingusefullinkarazhan

[Lostprophet]

I think as long as we need the mana from Dispersion, and that imo will be all over LK, this Talent is fine. If Blizz manage that we are dealing equal dmg to other classes, we dont need a DPS 51Talent.

Mana is atm not a Problem to us, but this will change. So u will be happy to have Disp.

And we get a "Shield Wall".

I also would be thankfull if they remove the Silence Effect or atleat give us a Glyph which will do that.

[Nezoia]

Dude... you're a cloud of shadow energy (look like a Shadow Cloud, in Nagrand, that Engineeres can pick up with a Mote Extractor).

DPSing from that would be, hmm, odd

[Chastise]

the only spell castable from dispersion should be mind flay...

[Kyara]

I just hope engineeres won't turn us into a little shadow mote

[Hiraeth]

this so called "talent" is, by all means, not worth to spend one point in.

its lackluster, more a "we-dont-know-what-to-put-as-top-tier-talent" than a real worthy 51 master-talent.

[Chastise]

its extremely viable for pvp and pve - it just doesnt have the wow factor of some others....

but when a ret pally and arms warrior come running at you and you healer is about to get off that big heal...dispersion is awesome...

with some good help from teamates disperion will mean the difference between a win and a loss...

also...non stop leveling?? shadowfiend and dispersion making your mana pool issue miniscule...