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  1. #1

    Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I was just wondering if in you think that the ominous third Priest tree will get any PvE-Raid time or if it will be one of those "What the hell were you thinking, do Arena instead..." choices.

    Personally, I played 41 disc all the way to SW in BC, finding it very helpful in certain situations.


  2. #2

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    hm, interesting question. Certainly holy has more raid "utility" in terms of heal performance. But still some points in disc could turn out quite interesting. Personally I'm not really happy about the idea of a pally priest (scaling on crit and haste), but maybe with the new rage mechanics and the shielding system there could be some utility. Maybe disc will be somethong for PVP players who don`t want to respec for every raid :P

    There is a certain potential, further testing will show if its viable or not...

  3. #3

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Every serious guild will force you to respec holy if you'd want to raid with them. Disc simply doesnt have any advantages over Holy.

  4. #4

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I would not expect it to be there for a PvP specc'd disc priest - and there are clearly plenty of PvP talents.

    In general I would like to think that if you healed instances as Disc, then told the raid leader you were a PvE disc spec, they would let you try it out. Then it becomes a question of effectiveness. If you healed well they might well let you maintain your spec. If you failed....

    Of course healmeters might be an issue with so much prevention from your shields not being accounted for...

  5. #5

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Yeah, Disc spec priest is designed for main tank healing as stated by blizzard iirc.

  6. #6

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Healing meters are always hard to go by. Disc Priests are being designed to be one of, if not the highest, single target HPS. I would be willing to bet that they will have a place in raids, perhaps not every guild will want to use them, but that should be based more on what other classes/specs are available to the group.

  7. #7

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Another thing that hopefully will secure my Disc spot is that due to the talent tree design, a full holy Priest can never have the Spirit Buff with was also reworked with Lich King.

    Our Guild had this problem when CoH became so important in the SW fights that we hardly ever had the buff, which in my opinion is underrated(Even more before that update than now)

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    You can easily go 21 / 50 / 0 at lvl 80 as holy, GS isn't that important yet that its a big choice between the two and discipline is certainly not powerfull enough yet to compete with holy single target healing (not as long as penance got that long cd).
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  9. #9

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball
    Every serious guild will force you to respec holy if you'd want to raid with them. Disc simply doesnt have any advantages over Holy.
    Grace provides a 3% reduction of inbound damage to the disc priest's healing target. That alone brings a lot of oomph to the spec. That and pain suppression's 5% threat reduction to that overzealous dps, IDS buff, powerful single-target heals, and faster mass dispels (may or not become situationally relevant in LK PVE) add up to some pretty solid reasons not to rule them out in my book.
    Bigslick (1/7 Mythic) Lethal-Thunderhorn US
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  10. #10

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Discs give something that is quite unique: They can increase the health of the MT. Because thats what a shield does. So Disc are the only healer, that can "heal" more HP than the Tank has (please correct me if I'm wrong here^^). I think this abilitiy makes the Disc to a perfect second or third healer for a MT. Another view on shielding is, that it is not needed to take damage befor healing. You can shield first, than move arround look at whats going on, if the Tank gets hit he is "healed" by the shield, quite like PoM but without loosing HP. It really saves Time for other healers to react.

    the other unique Buffs are kind of a side effect^^, but in some situations they are quiet usefull (Bloodboil, Zul'jin...)

  11. #11

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Hopefully this will not be destroyed by the almighty heal-meter.
    Its funny how some people still decide raid setup by who has the most HPS or DPS.

    Surviveability and skills that dont fall under the "mesureable" catagory are often forgotten.

    hopefully people will learn :

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Grace doesn't provide something a prot paladin can't provide better; BLESSING OF SANCTUARY - it has to be stacked 3 times before its in proper effect and doesn't bring anything particularly special (unless you for some reason got the idea the 6% added healing to yourself is enough to keep up with holy).

    Pw:S - it does not add health to the target and it doesn't "heal" the target. Adding health would mean the target would visually get more health, and same goes for any healing (yes there is a glyph). It absorbs damage, and holy priests can still spec for getting about the same out of their shield as a discipline priest can (due to the fact that Borrowed time is craptastic to spec into with all the other talents you really badly need as discipline atm).

    But yes, IF disc gets more output before the patch (more healing power, less cd on penance, LESS bloat) then imo it does have some nice features.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  13. #13

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick
    Grace provides a 3% reduction of inbound damage to the disc priest's healing target. That alone brings a lot of oomph to the spec. That and pain suppression's 5% threat reduction to that overzealous dps, IDS buff, powerful single-target heals, and faster mass dispels (may or not become situationally relevant in LK PVE) add up to some pretty solid reasons not to rule them out in my book.
    yes i agree with some of the comments you made, but look at what you are sacrificing when going into a raid as disc. increase spell power by 25% of your spirit, surge of light, holy concentration, serendipity, and test of faith just to name a few. All for PS which is nice but very situational. Grace which is worthless compared to its holy counterparts (just the tier 6 Spiritual Healing talent counters this). Faster mass dispels which im not sure will be used in PvE (but dont quote me on that). PI is nice but i dont think it justify's bringing a disc priest to a raid. Penance seems like a nice MT heal but 10 second cooldown and everything u lost in Holy tree to get it.

    I dont think that you can justify bringing a disc priests for just being a disc priest. Yes there are other factors than just the tree itself, including play style and how good that individual priest is, but even if he/she is an unbelievable disc priest, they could be more effective as holy in a raid.

    P.S i left out the discussion of DS and IDS because alot of priests pick these up instead of finishing out their holy tree. So you dont have to be "disc" to have these talents.


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Ap%C3%A1che

  14. #14

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible

    Pw:S - it does not add health to the target and it doesn't "heal" the target. Adding health would mean the target would visually get more health,
    Don't be obtuse. The shield gives a higher EFFECTIVE health, since if they had max health + 2000pt shield it would take an additional 2000pts to kill them. Same as if they had an extra 2000 max health. As the OP said only for the duration of the shield etc etc.


  15. #15

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I can see that the 10 man raidspot for a Disc is probably non-existent but considering the 25 man raids I would assume that maybe 2 Holy 1 Disc or 1 Holy and 1 Disc is possible(according to raid setup). I would think that it would make the raid more flexible to have 2 Priests with 2 41 Point Talents then a mix of both.
    Again it all depends on the situation but I am not a fan of wasting 50 gold every two raid-days for respeccing for a certain Boss. If you play a certain tree, you should be able to do so without spending money in order to be compeditive 90% of the time.

    but thats just what I think. All I know is that people usually need a certain time getting used to a spec (myself also having a PvE Tank and PvP Heal Druid).

    I just hope I can keep on playing Disc instead of being a static Holy-Priest spamming GH

  16. #16

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Spamming GH?

    We shall have to see what the encounters require - but renew and CoH and PoM are all pretty well used by holy priests in my experience....

    As I said above - don't rely on other people. Learn your class, play your class, then try out the spec in a raid and see what happened. The healing leader should understand your points and will likely give you a shot, if you do not make sufficient apparent effect.... then meh.

  17. #17

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosaes
    I can see that the 10 man raidspot for a Disc is probably non-existent but considering the 25 man raids I would assume that maybe 2 Holy 1 Disc or 1 Holy and 1 Disc is possible(according to raid setup). I would think that it would make the raid more flexible to have 2 Priests with 2 41 Point Talents then a mix of both.
    Someone has also said that Holy has more raid utility.

    I think people may be missing the point.

    I perceive the Holy tree as being the "health restoration" tree, and Discipline as being the "damage mitigation" tree. Owing to the priorities and mechanics of PvP it is not surprising that Discipline is better suited to PvP.

    But in a raid or instancing environment, I see no reason why Holy should automatically be better than Discipline. Each tree is approaching the problem of PvE damage from completely different perspectives. One complaint I've read over and over is that Discipline doesn't do as much hp/s as Holy. Well, duh. But if played properly, Discipline mitigates enough damage to close the gap. Another way to look at it is to compare a bear druid and a prot pally on the last trash pull before Nalorakk in ZA in TBC. If you analyze the data after the pull (they both tank identical groups), the bear druid has taken much less damage and, therefore, has taken less healing.

    I'm excited by the different style of PvE play that the Discipline tree potentially represents. I just hope Blizzard gets it right.

  18. #18

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball
    Every serious guild will force you to respec holy if you'd want to raid with them. Disc simply doesnt have any advantages over Holy.
    I disagree. We have one Disc Priest in our raids, and as somebody stated earlier, Pain Suppression is really nice on certain fights. The Spirit buff is helpful, too.

    Our Holy Priests tend to be pure raid healers, because of their efficiency. Our Tree Druids tend to roll HoTs on the tanks and occasionally on the raid. Depending on the fight, we've either got our Resto Shamans on the MT and melee, or on the raid in general. Holy Pallies, of course are our single-target folks.

    Given all of that, and depending on who signs up for any given raid, we may need more or less healers for some fights. Our geared and skilled healers will have a spot at some point during any given raid, pretty much regardless of class or spec.

    Stay Disc if you do it well. If your guild doesn't approve, find a better guild.

  19. #19

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    in the early BC i remember raiding kara as FULL discipline with painsuppression (back when it wasn't that amazing and could only cast on self). i remember i had to specc this way or i would simple die, and the fact i wasnt holy, didn't have spirit of redemption (didn't matter since i finished encounters alive) didn't matter.
    Ofc now, at SW i'm holy, with out DS.

    On my premade charr i went naxx 10m as discipline once. rest of the time i prefered to come as holy. ofc thats my own opinion and impression, i just felt abit limited as discipline. we went without a holy paladin, i mainly healed MT. i had no problems at all, infact - mana wise as disci was better then holy. But when it came to supporting the raid healing i was very limited without CoH and the ability to open a lightwell. i was basically a paladin: helping on raid with flash heals and sheilds, Proms flying around, or healing tanks.

  20. #20

    Re: Will Disciplin get a Raid Spot?

    I was just going to comment, and the last poster said it. In a Raid, the Disc Priest almost stands in as a Holy Paladin spot. Allowing the raid to be more flexible depending on what's available.

    I too also despise the statistical heal meters and damage meters. A lot of people don't appreciate situational gameplay in this MMO. For instance, I had great reflexes. Everyone's done Karazhan plenty of times, and I was able to 2 heal Kara with a Resto shaman multiple times. Shade fight, mass dispel, shield the people the elementals attack, on Prince, shield the healer when getting hit with the blades so channeling continues. These are just a few examples but it seems Blizz has buffed the situational aspect for Disc.

    Bottom line, just treat them as if they were the holy paladin spot.

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