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  1. #1

    GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    If possible, would somebody copy this into the WotLK forums for me? Even though I have a beta key, for some reason I am not able to post on the forums! I appreciate the help, whether you agree with me or not.

    First, I would like to thank all the developers for your hard work, and taking the time to respond to so many of our posts. I really do appreciate all the feedback.
    I would like to talk about soloing as a holy paladin. Whether it be doing dailies or farming for that BoP pattern, killing things as a holy pally is almost painfully slow. I would like to submit an idea for a talent, or an addition to a talent that works much the same as a ret pallies Sheath of Light, but giving attack power from spell power. ie...
    10% of spellpower bonus to attack power per rank, max 3 ranks. I realize that many players will not take a talent of that sort, and with the new dual tree mechanics going in game (eventually!?) it may be less of an issue, but it will save a long grind for 2 sets of great gear to make the dual talent tree thing work. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to do competitive DPS as holy. I just want to be able to kill something, a mob or two, while I am at it. Thank you.

  2. #2

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    I'm no Holy expert when it comes to Paladins, but isn't that the same kind of situation a holy priest, resto druid or resto shaman is in?

    I fibbled with Holy for a while, and I've been holy/disc priest for some time...and you CAN kill things.
    It's not just as fast and smooth as it is for someone geared and specced for dps.

    As far as I can tell, blizzard has already given the above mentioned plenty of candy in that department, with the new spell power conversions.

    And really....30% attack power from spell power? When you have no real talents/skills that utilize AP other than auto attack? What would be the point?

  3. #3

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    I guess the only difference between Holy Paladin soloing and other heal specs soloing is that while you actually have dps spells to utilize, Paladins have barely any. A Resto Sham can still cast Lightning Bolt, while a Paladin gets to auto attack, Judge and Shock. So a grand total of two spells. lol

  4. #4
    Pit Lord
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    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Seals/judgments all have an AP component in their scaling now, I believe.
    Holy grinding is pretty much a pain, and shouldn't be.
    I'd recommend waiting for BlizzCon, they apparently will be announcing how the dual spec idea will play out, there.

  5. #5

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by blupp74
    I'm no Holy expert when it comes to Paladins, but isn't that the same kind of situation a holy priest, resto druid or resto shaman is in?
    ...
    Not really. With the swap to spell power instead of damage/healing and the addition of dual specs that is comming up, holy priests, resto druids and resto shammies will be able to use the same gear they have with a talent swap to DPS for solo {assuming it's not something lame like "Only 7k gold to use unlimited spec swapping!"} Holy paladins won't get that luxury, as our DPS spec is Ret...a melee spec using melee stats. The conversion leaves us out in the cold.

    As it stands now, I don't bother doing anything as holy unless I can AOE. It takes me just as long to kill one as it does to kill 10.

  6. #6

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Biochemist
    If possible, would somebody copy this into the WotLK forums for me? Even though I have a beta key, for some reason I am not able to post on the forums! I appreciate the help, whether you agree with me or not.

    First, I would like to thank all the developers for your hard work, and taking the time to respond to so many of our posts. I really do appreciate all the feedback.
    I would like to talk about soloing as a holy paladin. Whether it be doing dailies or farming for that BoP pattern, killing things as a holy pally is almost painfully slow. I would like to submit an idea for a talent, or an addition to a talent that works much the same as a ret pallies Sheath of Light, but giving attack power from spell power. ie...
    10% of spellpower bonus to attack power per rank, max 3 ranks. I realize that many players will not take a talent of that sort, and with the new dual tree mechanics going in game (eventually!?) it may be less of an issue, but it will save a long grind for 2 sets of great gear to make the dual talent tree thing work. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to do competitive DPS as holy. I just want to be able to kill something, a mob or two, while I am at it. Thank you.
    While I do agree with u (Im a healing class myself) I would recomand lvling a hunter for farming stuff (its very fast and easy mode) and about the BoP stuff just ask a firend to help u grind it...me (holy priest) and my friend (mage) made both exalted with the scryers AND consortium in just a week by grinding netherstorm for rings/arcane tomes.

  7. #7

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    I have Seven 70's every class but a shaman and a warrior, I can get any farming done that does not have a BOP added on it but some BS items do. fighting for nodes is a pain to. I have every profession at 375 and would like to have all the recipe's, plans, patterns, formula's ETC. for all my professions but farming on my holy pally is ridiculous.

  8. #8

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Biochemist
    If possible, would somebody copy this into the WotLK forums for me? Even though I have a beta key, for some reason I am not able to post on the forums! I appreciate the help, whether you agree with me or not.

    First, I would like to thank all the developers for your hard work, and taking the time to respond to so many of our posts. I really do appreciate all the feedback.
    I would like to talk about soloing as a holy paladin. Whether it be doing dailies or farming for that BoP pattern, killing things as a holy pally is almost painfully slow. I would like to submit an idea for a talent, or an addition to a talent that works much the same as a ret pallies Sheath of Light, but giving attack power from spell power. ie...
    10% of spellpower bonus to attack power per rank, max 3 ranks. I realize that many players will not take a talent of that sort, and with the new dual tree mechanics going in game (eventually!?) it may be less of an issue, but it will save a long grind for 2 sets of great gear to make the dual talent tree thing work. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to do competitive DPS as holy. I just want to be able to kill something, a mob or two, while I am at it. Thank you.
    I know your pain sir. Pretty much just have to grab stacks of mannar biscuits and AoE grind.

  9. #9
    The Hedgehog Elementium's Avatar
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    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    When i'm grinding with my holy pally it's a pain to take on one guy yeah.. but that's why you run around take on 5-6 guys consecrate and heal till they're dead.

  10. #10

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    That is how i do it but it is just not right. You know how long it takes for me to Aoe mobs down that are level 70. there also has to be mobs close together for me to gather them up to Aoe a good amount too. In outlands there are not that many area's like that you will get 3-4 mobs down as fast as my Mage can wipe the hole area.

  11. #11

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    With the new convert to spell power gear all the healing classes will do decent damage with holy gear but paladins, because all the holy classes have spells they can cast over and over till a mob is downed. Like holy priest can cast smite with there dot on the mob, druids can cast wrath, shamans can cast lighting, paladins get to cast judgement every 10secs that goes off of attack power and if the speced for holy shock that was now reduced to 6sec cooldown. but if we were to get higher attack power we would now keep an additional weapon for DPSing. We would not do that much more damage we would still be the easiest healer in the game to kill just able to deal more damage.

  12. #12

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    soloing as holy really isnt that bad on beta, especially if you can grab a few. i think i was specced something like 43/0/18 at 70, and had a 35% spell crit (something over 40 for holy shock and holy light). until they nerfed infusion of light i was actually loving it.

    however, ret is significantly higher on dps, way lower on downtime because of judgements of the wise and all around better for leveling. however i still may play holy/ret when the patch comes out because theres nothing in the prot tree that interests me

  13. #13

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    they should just slap a holy bolt on our baseline and be done with it.
    Face Tomorrow - Overpowered http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YH6E5aOTgc** * * * ** I am overpowered...

  14. #14

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Attack power in holy?

    Think about what you're saying.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=Crispybacon

  15. #15
    The Patient Stormgard88's Avatar
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    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Admittedly I have never tried holy, but based on what I have seen playing a pally so far, it really couldn't hurt... Seems like a lot of base abilities use attack power for their damage modifier. So I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. Certainly doesn't harm game balance in any way

  16. #16

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Even with the 6 second Holy Shock, which should be hitting at least as hard as CS unless you're in all haste or something, you're having DPS problems?

    Spell Power gear should be cranking your Seal damage as high as a Ret Paladin's, as long as you're using Righteousness or Vengeance. Your Consecration/HoW still do great damage as holy, at level 75 you get Holy Shield Bash, which isn't as great for Holy as it is for Prot, but still very useful.

    What I would be in favor of, is a Holy Talent that converts your weapon's average swing damage into Spell Power. Unless I'm mistaken, this would give you an even bonus whether you get a DPS 2-hander or a Spell Power 1-hander.

    It would also increase your soloing damage immensely by enabling you to use the classic 2-handed weapon that Paladins use in Warcraft and still be perfectly effective healers.

    My opinions don't align with the Holy Paladin community, though, because most Holy Paladins would rather hide in the back while healing than pretend to be a Paladin and heal while actually participating in the fight.

    I'd absolutely love to see Holy Paladins made into something similar to Shadow Priests, where their healing is generated by holy damage, either directly converted and placed onto a single target, or by an effect generated only by frequent holy damage to facilitate healing from melee range.

  17. #17

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    To Address PalliesThrowStuff:

    The problem has been reported from the Beta that spell power is not scaling well at all for Paladins, and Holy is doing less dmg at 80 than they were at 70. Consecration and judgments are said to scale so poorly in WotLK that leveling/grinding as holy may be the worst spec in the game in that regard (in terms of time spent per kill).

    I agree that it would be interesting to redesign holy into something like Paladins in Warhammer Online, where their healing ability grows as they use more offensive abilities. Afterall they are plate wearing, mace swinging holy warriors. And you might say simliar things about resto shaman, but their shocks, totems and lightning bolts are much more effective offensively. Realistically, that's too much of a fundamental change for Blizzard to consider applying to the holy spec. Therefore, the logical solution, as healing has been pretty much fixed in my eyes, is just to have a mid-level talent to increase the spell dmg of seals, judgments and consecrate to compensate for the lack of AP/STR. Dont make them more powerful than any other healing spec, but give them the ability to level and grind as well as any other healing class/spec.

    Then again, they did announce upcoming details on dual-spec at Blizzcon, so maybe this will be a non-issue.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord shockpally's Avatar
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    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispybacon
    Attack power in holy?

    Think about what you're saying.
    Ya, Call us holy paladin crazy but Prot and Ret both got greatly amplified healing and a Spell power conversion talent while they both stack AP and get SP from talented conversion.
    The dont have to stack a single SP piece to get spell power. And they get bonus healing from the same talent that converts it.

    What did Holy get? A nerf and seals that scale with AP and SP.

    Why did Prot and Ret get SP conversions with Healing abilities and Holy got screwed?

    Be Nice to America or we will bring Democracy to your country.

  19. #19

    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    I have always assumed that things would be easier with the new spell power and crit. I never liked doing AoE grind (it's just not cool for me.) With Judgment and Holyshock, I have always assumed you would be able to kill things fairly quickly. I was planning on going crazy Shockadin for grinding, but I guess that doesn't work. But at least the lower cooldown on Wings should help a bit.
    By the way, does Wings work on Consecrate?

  20. #20
    Dreadlord shockpally's Avatar
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    Re: GC: Holy Soloing DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by olicon
    I have always assumed that things would be easier with the new spell power and crit. I never liked doing AoE grind (it's just not cool for me.) With Judgment and Holyshock, I have always assumed you would be able to kill things fairly quickly. I was planning on going crazy Shockadin for grinding, but I guess that doesn't work. But at least the lower cooldown on Wings should help a bit.
    By the way, does Wings work on Consecrate?
    Yes, AW affects damage spells and Healing now. As far as Holy damage goes it seems they are missing out on Half of the modifiers for judgements. AP affects JoR to a lesser degree but it still is a modifier. Holy paladin only having one attribute that affect it and cuts their Damage in half even though they have more SP than Ret or Prot.
    Be Nice to America or we will bring Democracy to your country.

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