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  1. #41

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbimojo
    One minor comment:
    This 'LB coeff nerf' thing.. 0.79 to 0.71 someone said, though I haven't been keeping up with elem issues.
    0.79/0.71 = 1.1127ish, IE LB scales 11% faster on live than post-coeff nerf.
    However, it now benefits from CoE and similar debuffs. IE, 10-13% buff, applied to both base and coeff.
    0.71/0.79 * 1.13 = 1.015, IE a 1.5% gain in -scaling-.
    How exactly does that hit for less?

    Not to mention, flametongue weapon now means an additional what, 130 sp talented? Counts for something.

    I don't see cause for so much doom and gloom. Maybe one of these days I'll care enough about elem to read through EJ, but.. Blizz has made it pretty clear how they balance things. If there are legitimate claims that they're missing something about elem, then posting with solid numbers on the beta/PTR forums is the way to go. Complaining on MMOC does nothing but bring more negativity to an already overwhelmingly whiny community (referring to WoW as a whole).

    youhavent read even this thread, did you?

    it is nerfing our base solo/small content/pvp damage output, and doesnt do anything to raid output, not to mention we lost stormstrike charges, so overall nerf, since 95% of SWP guild are running with enha shaman anyway.

    static numbers arent helping our terribad scalling in any way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazir
    Blizzard knows what they are doing, and they have plenty of time to balance things, but they cant do that if they arent changing stuff in each beta build, as they gotta check numbers and how things work ingame.
    sure they do, just like they screwed up specs like boomkin, feral cat or retripala or both shaman dps specs for pve or pvp or both in tBC beta? sorry, they had several MONTHS to adress our issues and fix them, they took about a third of them and did them in their 50/50 way. sure, i like new physical totems and their 5min duration, but it doesnt help on movement fights or arenas, sure i like new hex, but it is the only castable CC with CD, which even doesnt last long enough in pve to be recasted before it break, sure i like fire spell, but it isnt spammable and scalles again badly.

    i would love quarter of love boomkins got this beta, maybe then we would be atleast semiviable in 10mans.

  2. #42

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz

    i would love quarter of love boomkins got this beta, maybe then we would be atleast semiviable in 10mans.
    So true, and the reason I'm going to bench my elemental for boomkin in LK.

  3. #43

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21
    I'm not really sure what you mean here, but beta is showing boomkin dps in the 4k range, where elementals are 3k and less.
    And as far as the movement thing, I have no idea what you're talking about. Sure seems to me that boomkins are better at movement. moonfire being a spammable spell, where elementals only insta cast are shocks on a 6 sec cd. Granted, moonfire isn't a completely efficient spell, but then neither are shocks. Besides, movement has always been a strength of druids as a whole and its really not different with boomkin. insta cast that does 1500 damage and adds a dot?
    Boomkins should and, IMO, are better in a movement fight

    And as yet, I'm finding no reason to stick with my elemental as my main come LK. Boomkin is looking like a more solid spec, and neither day of class panels has done nothing to change my mind. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this either.

    Blizzard should make a graveyard in a zone and all elementals can go there and die.
    The point I was making was that the person I was responding to originally was making claims that "Shamans damage output is better than what was being said because the more Haste they have the scaling of power is better than what was seen, due to the proccing of Lightning Overload...."

    With that in mind, is partially true. Shamans scale very well once you factor in large amounts of haste, due to the increased proc rate of Lightning Overload and overall increased damage output.

    But, the point I added on top of that, was that the person I was replying to wasn't factoring in the same amount of haste increase for a Balance Druid as well. Between DoTs and Direct Damage spells, their damage output is balanced against a Shamans damage output with Lightning Overload in mind. So, a Shaman adding in more Haste only gains a higher damage output vs. a Balance Druid if the Balance Druid doesn't gather up any Spell Haste gear/spells to counter what the shaman gained. Once he/she does that, their damage output ends up the same.

    But, something odd happens due to the how Balance Druid spells are more "Button Mashing Friendly". If a Balance Druid doesn't have to move around as much as a Shaman, they can end up pumping out higher dps than the Shaman due to the Shaman having more cast time based spells vs. the balance druid having more insta-cast timed spells.

  4. #44

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21
    If they were truly looking and understanding EJ forums, then our dps would be higher. They would understand that we need scaling talents rather than what's there now. Blizz wouldn't have nerfed the LB coefficient as it was our only scaling talent.

    Yeah, it's beta, but 3.0.2 goes live in 3 days, and Blizz has pretty much said that LK is ready to be shipped. Sure everything can change, and there will be patches. But as it stands, this means Blizz is okay with the direction of elemental - which for me is very very telling and shows they don't have a clue.

    My guess is they'll up the dps somehow, but it'll more be a bandaid than an actual fix and as thus won't really help. Besides, it won't really matter because there won't be enough of them around to matter.

    I have 1 reference to this.....ppl think the patch coming out on live is like... the grand final patch for wotlk

    If you'd like ill point out how much damage my corruption was doing on my warlock when the preTBC patch released and what it was doing after... blizzard does MAJOR damage mods between the patch release and the expansion release... calm down ppl please

  5. #45

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MortuariusBC

    I have 1 reference to this.....ppl think the patch coming out on live is like... the grand final patch for wotlk

    If you'd like ill point out how much damage my corruption was doing on my warlock when the preTBC patch released and what it was doing after... blizzard does MAJOR damage mods between the patch release and the expansion release... calm down ppl please
    Actually no.

    They (Blizzard) are going to stick to their guns and keep telling everyone "Your new talents/spells/ect are balanced on 80th lvl and 80th lvl gear. It'll be A-OKAY. No worries!"

    So, we'll get to WotLK. We'll level up to 80th lvl.

    And things still won't be A-OKAY as they stated. And all it'll do is p!ss off enough folks to know that for the last 6 months everyone was telling them it wasn't fine, it wasn't okay and they (once again) didn't listen to us. They listened to whatever jack*ss that runs class balance (or at least has the majority of the say-so power in there).

    Personally, once WotLK is done, my whole reason for playing WoW will be done. I'll have finished the storyline from Warcraft 3 and there will be nothing left they can hope to offer to keep me around. To be honest, I'm not sure I'll make it to see Arthas, I just might say "Good Enough". Once that happens, I'll click on my Account Management button on the www.worldofwarcraft.com site, Cancel my Account and pray they don't have any kind of feedback where I can give them a written reason for my leaving (as it would be vulgar). I'll then uninstall WoW and never look back.

  6. #46

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diatribe
    Actually no.

    They (Blizzard) are going to stick to their guns and keep telling everyone "Your new talents/spells/ect are balanced on 80th lvl and 80th lvl gear. It'll be A-OKAY. No worries!"

    So, we'll get to WotLK. We'll level up to 80th lvl.

    And things still won't be A-OKAY as they stated. And all it'll do is p!ss off enough folks to know that for the last 6 months everyone was telling them it wasn't fine, it wasn't okay and they (once again) didn't listen to us. They listened to whatever jack*ss that runs class balance (or at least has the majority of the say-so power in there).

    Personally, once WotLK is done, my whole reason for playing WoW will be done. I'll have finished the storyline from Warcraft 3 and there will be nothing left they can hope to offer to keep me around. To be honest, I'm not sure I'll make it to see Arthas, I just might say "Good Enough". Once that happens, I'll click on my Account Management button on the www.worldofwarcraft.com site, Cancel my Account and pray they don't have any kind of feedback where I can give them a written reason for my leaving (as it would be vulgar). I'll then uninstall WoW and never look back.
    It's called wikipedia, it can tell you the sort version of the story if you don't want to bother playing the game. That's how I learned about The Frozen Throne story line. No way was I gonna play through another shit WC3 game.

  7. #47

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MortuariusBC

    I have 1 reference to this.....ppl think the patch coming out on live is like... the grand final patch for wotlk

    If you'd like ill point out how much damage my corruption was doing on my warlock when the preTBC patch released and what it was doing after... blizzard does MAJOR damage mods between the patch release and the expansion release... calm down ppl please
    well, if you would like, ill point out, how they nerfed eleshaman throughout tBC, even tho it wasnt OP spec in any way. so yea, i agree, they are doing polishes during major patches, but they already have a long string of not bothering with shaman :/

  8. #48

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MortuariusBC

    I have 1 reference to this.....ppl think the patch coming out on live is like... the grand final patch for wotlk

    If you'd like ill point out how much damage my corruption was doing on my warlock when the preTBC patch released and what it was doing after... blizzard does MAJOR damage mods between the patch release and the expansion release... calm down ppl please
    we know it's not the last patch, trust us on that one. However, everything Blizz developers are pretty much saying is completely contradictory to what we know from beta. Elementals are not fine, damage is not good, no scaling talents will destroy the spec even more so as LK progresses.

    Sure it could change, but as of now it truly shows how clueless blizz is and has been about the shaman class, especially elemental.

  9. #49

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykk
    You don't like it, don't play it.
    I don't play it, but it's people like you that make any game bad, similar to those who think people who play a certain class no longer have the right to complain about anything because they play that class. These people like the class, and they are disappointed that things have happened to it. Constructive criticism will help, not your narrow minded judgment. You make me sick.

  10. #50

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by woeye
    Guys, have a look at this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsTefpyN50s

    I mean, erm, lol? And Blizzard says Elemental DPS is scary? Sorry what?
    Let us all reroll druids, shall we?
    haven't you read the blue post where they said they a going to look into blanace drood. cuz they a doing to much dmg atm. and the premade char a crap its all blue gear and you not getting alot spell dmg. and even in the Premade gear you get you can still beable to crit7600 if you keep up flameshock. and yes i did this in pvp. not pve. so im just wondering on how much dmg shamans can make in pve. but tbh you shouldn't whine about it since its still beta. you should wait to you have the finaly game installed to whine. but so farm Wotlk is wayy more fun the tbc.

  11. #51

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    I re-speced 2 days ago into ele (from enhanc) just to test this spec... (never ever played it before - i was melee from very start of TBC ). And i must say i dont belive with numbers on this movie... It cant be 80 lvl with 1600 spell dmg... I'm doing 4-4.3k lb's crts with my shitty offspec gear ( http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ger&n=Totemhex ) so i guess its just another fail-beta/ptr movie and theres nothing to worry about before "full" game at 13.11 :]

    ps. I must say that ele is fun :P At least for someone who was spamming flame shock - stormstrike - earth shock for about 1 year... (4k+ lb's with overload proc are more fun then 3k wf's procs : )

  12. #52

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Masptak
    I re-speced 2 days ago into ele (from enhanc) just to test this spec... (never ever played it before - i was melee from very start of TBC ). And i must say i dont belive with numbers on this movie... It cant be 80 lvl with 1600 spell dmg... I'm doing 4-4.3k lb's crts with my shitty offspec gear ( http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ger&n=Totemhex ) so i guess its just another fail-beta/ptr movie and theres nothing to worry about before "full" game at 13.11 :]

    ps. I must say that ele is fun :P At least for someone who was spamming flame shock - stormstrike - earth shock for about 1 year... (4k+ lb's with overload proc are more fun then 3k wf's procs : )
    4-4.3k crit LBs? with SS up. i have better gear and im doing nowhere those numbers without SS.
    LO is 10% damage increase, something every other class got, its just more bursty and less reliable for us.

    even tho, they are actually nerfing LB in itself for beta, so its certainly possible we will hit for less with LB at 80

  13. #53

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    M8 i wasnt even raiding as ele - done yesterday hero SH run where 4k+ lb's wasnt anything rare (pala tank, frost pvp mage, fury war, holy priest setup so kinda hard to find ss up there...). I was just doing some bg's and 4k wasnt there anything rare aswell...

    Btw if: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ow&n=Sarevokcz its you... where is this better gear ?

    Oh also dont forget that at 80 lvl theres gonna be like 2 ranks higher spells so its just impossible to hit less then... minimum 5k-6k with starting 10-man naxx kit imo.

  14. #54

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Masptak
    Oh also dont forget that at 80 lvl theres gonna be like 2 ranks higher spells so its just impossible to hit less then...
    also dont forget they are nerfing LB coef. kthx.

  15. #55

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    i play enhancement, but i just thought of something...

    ele shaman (enh now too) spec into elemental fury in order to get x2 damage on spell crits...at this point (like in that video) ele shaman are obviously not doing as much damage as lets say - a moonkin. moonkin dont have to spec into a talent like that to get x2 damage, but still crit for 8k compared to the shaman's 5k???! is that right or is there a boomkin talent that does the same sort of thing, am i just missing it? if its true, why is it that shammies need a 5 pt talent to NOT keep up with moonkin damage?

  16. #56

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz
    4-4.3k crit LBs? with SS up. i have better gear and im doing nowhere those numbers without SS.
    LO is 10% damage increase, something every other class got, its just more bursty and less reliable for us.

    even tho, they are actually nerfing LB in itself for beta, so its certainly possible we will hit for less with LB at 80
    This points out the exact problem. As elemental, I do that now, with sunwell gear, and not just in raids, I can do this on trash mobs with no buffs. Thus 1100 spell damage unbuffed and now at 80, I'm going to be hitting for the same with more levels, and more spell damage.

    This completely proves the point.

  17. #57

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    i was just wondering, with all the talk about how ele shaman are going to be good when they have a lot of haste, i see how that might level out our dps but wont we just lose mana even faster therefore still doing low dps. and wont the other classes be just as good when they get haste basically saying that they will still be better?

  18. #58

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    If you stack absolutely nothing but haste, you would be Correct.


    You need to maintain some synergy between crit and haste, otherwise you're going to have mana issues. But again this could vary based on raid compilation, as if you have enough mana batteries you're golden to start gemming out the ass for haste.

  19. #59

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    word. i am probably going to stick with my ele shaman just cause i dont really care anymore and i kind of like the fact that my class is underpowered and maybe if i do well with it ill look really good cause the class sucks

  20. #60

    Re: So this is Blizzard's understanding of balancing?

    Overall at the moment ele shamans don't necessarily suck, it's just not the answer all question to undergearedness that it used to be. With the new coefficient going through it probably will be taking a backseat to lava burst raw damagewise. Personally I feel ele will be scaling a tad bit better, even with some weaksauce talents for PvE later in the tree. You don't -have- to spec Thunderstorm after all =P.

    Oh and @ the OP - Boomkins were broken at the time, not sure if they've been fixed yet as I haven't logged onto the beta in ages.


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