If this is happening, then you suck. Plain and simple. I have seen Rogues go toe to toe against Ret at 70 with equal gear, so basicly you fail.Originally Posted by redderz
Sick whine between Moar Pew Pew and Tigercat! ;D
THo seriously, none of u know whats going to happen... so why bitch about it? Warriors have been nerfed all along (And they (yes, blizzard) know that 'Warrior + crap gear/weapon = very sucky. Give nice talents then.' and 'Warrior + good gear/weapon = Oh shit, too good. Some nerf here and there in talents then'. And whopdido... some buffs finally. But what if i say we will get nerfed later then? Im pretty sure some will whine about it...
So why bitch about this? Wait, and see...
Thats silly... No rogue that's full s4 will allow a paladin to stun him anyway. A full s4 rogue is skilled enough to stunlock the paladin and use his cloak of skillz when the stuns are out to avoid HoJ. You want to compare the skill of a full S4 rogue to that of a blue retri... that's just plain failure. A paladin cannot open a rotation against a skilled rogue, they just have too many ways to avoid it.Originally Posted by redderz
YOU FACE NOT MALCHEZAR ALONE, BUT THE LEGIONS I COMMAND!
Or a any decent paladin won`t just blow hes hoj on clos...Originally Posted by Vorpal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8HWuPk1djs&NR=1 Not the best example but you notice paladin used hoj just after pvp trinket, rogue trinketed and just got demolished anyways cause of repeatance which went trought cloak cause of server lag. I don`t see how the rogue could really play it out much differently from what he did there.
this is simply not the case at 80 where people in pvp gear have 26k HP easy, yea u can get a nice 10k burst with lucky procs and crits but its hardly enough to kill anyone.
and with all the resi u can b sure it will take a lot of duels be4 u see a 3 crit streak.
Shouldn`t it go both ways? Retris just generally got shorter cooldowns than rogue`s coped with selfheals. Can`t just picture rogue outplaying retridins class mechanics no matter how good he is.Originally Posted by MMage
kk a friend of mine is on the beta. just talked to him yesterday about ret paladins. he said that while rets seem realy op on ptr because the damage on the ptr dosnt match the hit points you have very well ( aka: the damage on beta is more attuned for lvl 80 not 70 ).
he said that at level 80 most every class in blue / first set epic pvp gear has easly over 20k hp. he said now most classes damage scales very well as they level however ret paladins ( he gave me some strange math here. lets just say the way they deal damage has problem scaling because they use 2h wepons - thats why they put the ap to spell power tallent to help with this ) causes ret paladins damge, burst and sustaned to be equil if not slightly less than other classes in equil gear and an equil level.
now what is making rets equil to other classes in wrath even though our damage isnt as high as the others is that we can sustane ourselfes much better. he said combine the heals with unlimted mana and you can last much longer. wich makes short attack styles classes, (rogues / fury warriors / feral druids) have a problem killing us simply because we are not a spec/class anymore that can easly be killed in that golden 20 seconds a rogue has that he can play cc/stunlocking burst. they actualy have to fight us more like they would warriors now.
just understand that most of the people crying nerf play the ptr not beta. the people playing beta and have seen what rets can do at 80 with gear are saying they are right equil with the rest of the classes and is probably why kulgan said what he said. they might be op at 70 but there burst / op-ness kinda equils out at 80.
like i said just some things my friend told me the other day.
Jesus, it's not even live and you assholes are acting like Rogues.
You'd think people who can tell the difference from under powered and over powered would be slightly more logical. You guys right now are insane. In PvP from guys in merc gear i'm getting crit for 3500, people at 80 have said they're overpowered with numbers and stuff to prove it.
We know you don't wanna get nerfed but quit acting like you don't know how strong you are. we should be working towards every class having an equal chance but that's not gonna happen if every class who gets an advantage won't admit it and help the balance process.
Does not compute: burst is burst, plain and simple. If you normally hit for 2k and burst for 4k, it doesn't matter whether your opponent has 1 health or 1 million, you're still bursting for 4k.Originally Posted by Keelie
Also, I've been in the beta for a couple of months now and have seen Ret go from OMGOP to ...still OMGOP. It has nothing to do with "people not being used to the damage" and everything to do with Ret Paladins simply putting out too much damage, period.
When they're right behind Hunters and above everyone else, there is a problem. Ret is supposed to be a support DPS class, not main DPS class.
You're joking right?Originally Posted by Kaij
From 70 to 80 the damage increase is much lower than the HP-increase, so burst is less dangerous an less effective. And an opponent with 8k HP is dead after let's say 9k burst, an opponent with 21k HP (which is common for the blue pvp-sets at level 80) is not. The burst-class has just burned a lot of its cds and the opponent now has his chance.
And the so called burst is simply not there or that much if you really compare it, other classes burst just as well. Also resilience was buggy fpr a long time or still is. And a LOT of a Rets damage relies on crit.
Just have a look at mages or hunters - and they are ranged and can kite. Every good mage can kite most Ret-Paladins to death easily, on live as well as on Beta at 80 and even on PTR if he doesn't have bad luck.
See above, I've been in beta too and tested Pre-Mades as well as my Ret-Main.Also, I've been in the beta for a couple of months now and have seen Ret go from OMGOP to ...still OMGOP. It has nothing to do with "people not being used to the damage" and everything to do with Ret Paladins simply putting out too much damage, period.
There are no more support-classes, every class can be dps and support now. Also DPS-rankings in raids from the last few weeks differ, and Ret-Paladins are not on the top most of the time, but right in the middle.When they're right behind Hunters and above everyone else, there is a problem. Ret is supposed to be a support DPS class, not main DPS class.
Remember Hunters pre Tbc, we could 3 shot anything just like ret palas can, but we got nerfed and so will you
Funny you say that, Dirigo. Because all I see hunter doing right now is bitch and moan about not being competitive in arena ON LIVE. Maybe your a little butt hurt paladins will match your burst and not be subject to pillar humping like you are?
Ret Paladins cannot 3 shot most. Not when resilience works (again), not when they are kited, not when level 80 comes, not when opponents finally learn how to use their defensive CDs against "lolrets" in a timely fashion after they've experienced that lolrets are head to head now.Originally Posted by Dirigo
And the difference is, hunters are ranged and they worked pretty well even after their nerfs. When Ret-damage is nerfed Ret will be a broken class again in PvE and PvP. The only thing that can be tuned down without breaking Ret would be to tone down the 20s hammer. Everything else, like damage or mana-regeneration will break the class (again).
That is just poor logic.Originally Posted by Kaij
Firstly, it DOES matter whether your opponent has 1 health or 1 million. If you burst when your opponent has 1 million, then you are not doing much damage. Frankly speaking, you are doing shit damage. If your opponent has 1 health, of course, you are supermega overpower and I am sure blizzard will nerf you within 5 minutes.
So I dont get what did you mean by "burst is burst, plain and simple", "everything to do with Ret Paladins simply putting out too much damage, period." as mentioned before, whether someone is putting out too much damage always comparative. If everyone is doing 500 damage and you are hitting 5k, you are OP; If everyone is doing 500 damage and you hitting 5, you are UP
Secondly, what did you mean by "et is supposed to be a support DPS class, not main DPS class."? The devs have made their points clear - they want ret to be close to a pure dps class. If we follow your logic, then a holy pally should be a "support" healer, and a proc pally should be an off-tank, then wats the point of rolling a paladin? They might as well just delete this class and repleace it with with DK, huh?
Finally, "When they're right behind Hunters and above everyone else, there is a problem." WRONG. When a spec/class dominate over other spec/class all the time or most of the time, or when a spec/class is being dominated by other spec/class all the time or most of the time,there is a problem.
Here is the ]http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/10/11/blizzcon-2008-day-2-class-panel/[/url]Originally Posted by BlizzCon 2008: Day 2 class panel (wowinsider)
Originally Posted by Kaiton
sounds like someone comparing 1v1 matches. hey newbie Kaiton, do you know that Blizz devs never care about 1v1 balancing?
ret couldn't do 3 controlled burst dmg to take down anything pre-TBC. I was those ret pallies in AQ pally + war gear and I'm telling you that you can never 3 shot good mages like hunters did.Originally Posted by Dirigo
But that's also the reason why I spec reckoning bomb spec, and that's totally something else. Imagine those massive burst from that broken pvp talent, I nuked a blue geared war in valor to death with 1 fully charged reckoning bomb. premade groups ask me to dps, NOT HEALING.
but look, that talent never gave you that kind of control hunters got. I can never kill mages quick with reckoning build if he never crits me fast. and the fact is, res rating cuts our burst by a ton. get more resilience and we'll talk.
you are right, burst is burst no matter how much HP your opponent has. But percentages matter. If you can burst them for 50% of their HP it is significant, but a 4k burst out of 1 million HP might as well be zero.Originally Posted by Kaij
HP matters. In wrath people will have 25k hp, ret will do maybe 10k bursts in a stun. Manage your CDs, L2play