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  1. #21
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    but you don't think it should increase DPS. Given that a shadow priest's PvE role is DPS, I would like this explained.
    No, I still don't.

    A 51 point talent should not be alpha and omega for playstyle. Just look at Vampiric Touch , it's been nessary for the entire TBC but also been the single reason our dps could not upscale because it would regen to much mana.

    Regenerating 18000 mana on a 6min Brutallus kill is insane. Imagine if the value was even higher.

    Personally I think with DoTs being able to crit (that includes Mind Flay) , Blizzard can easier create items to upscale our raid dps. It's to early to talk about how good our dps is, as I wouldn't call the current beta realm for fair testing.

    The current state is acceptable for WotLK launch, and then we'll see some upcomming balance changes in the next couple of months.

  2. #22

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    And 95% of the posters haven't been in Sunwell, so their opinion means nothing to me.

    People QQ to much. I remember the majority of the warlock community whined about how useless Death Coil were when they got it.
    What lol? Warlocks didn't whine for Death Coil, NEVER.
    Because first, it wasn't a talent -_-
    And second, actual Death Coil has been buffed a lot.. and ALL warlocks were happy xD

    About Sunwell, I can't care less. I play PvP, and that's nearly useless.
    (and it will be until the day a Spriest will be viable to play with a healer.. never)

    Your ego is a bit too high, honestly.

  3. #23

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    The majority of shadowpriests with serious raid experience choose Dispersion.
    Most people I see do counter arguments is people playing PvP or low-end PvE.

    Funny how it's more usefull in high-end PvE , since the high-end is where you take most raid damage.

    QQ less, and try read the 100+ posts I've writte about Dispersion and why it don't suck allready.
    Dispersion is a very good PvE talent (Mana regen and survivability, yay!). But in PvP (read: mostly Arena) it just plain sucks. It's only good for when your stunned and any good rogue would then go on your partner while you just stand there silenced..

    P.S.
    And no, don't tell me to click to to take it off. That totally negates the ability and makes it useless..

  4. #24
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    It's only good for when your stunned and any good rogue would then go on your partner while you just stand there silenced..
    Just a friendly Panda Reminder: Arena is being balanced around 3vs3, not 2vs2.
    Please don't, EVER, use 2vs2 setups as reason for anything.

    (And then, read up for my comment about PvP)

  5. #25

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    No, I still don't.

    A 51 point talent should not be alpha and omega for playstyle. Just look at Vampiric Touch , it's been nessary for the entire TBC but also been the single reason our dps could not upscale because it would regen to much mana.

    Regenerating 18000 mana on a 6min Brutallus kill is insane. Imagine if the value was even higher.

    Personally I think with DoTs being able to crit (that includes Mind Flay) , Blizzard can easier create items to upscale our raid dps. It's to early to talk about how good our dps is, as I wouldn't call the current beta realm for fair testing.

    The current state is acceptable for WotLK launch, and then we'll see some upcomming balance changes in the next couple of months.
    Kind of a muddled answer, but I think what you're saying is you don't think Dispersion needs a DPS component because that would make problems elsewhere. I don't really see how, unless you mean PvP tuning.

    Regardless, going by that logic, what should a 51 pt. talent bring? The answer must be utility and survivability. Dispersion has both of these.

    It has the utility of a mana pot. Granted, you only get one Potion a fight in LK. However, I would prefer if they could fix our efficiency elsewhere, like in improving ShadowFiend, or buffing VT for self only.

    It has the survivability of being situationaly aware and not standing in the fire. There will be no encounter where a shadow priest MUST be able to reduce damage taken by 90% for 6 seconds.

    And to Xourico, shut up, go back to the hunter forums. You clearly have no idea how your 51 pt. talents will work.

  6. #26

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    When it comes down to it, what they're doing is turning our 51 point talent into a nerfed Evocation. We're having to go 51 points into a talent tree to get something that A. we don't really need, and B. other casters get within their first 20 levels. On live, and on beta before the VT nerfs, I never had trouble keeping my mana up. Yes, even in SWP and everything leading up to it. Shadow is our DPS tree. Leave mana regen talents and spells to the tree that already specializes in such, Discipline. Give us something that better suits our playstyle and our raiding niche. Shadow is not a pvp spec per se, so anyone saying that Dispersion is good for its pvp uses needs to try out Disc spec arena and see if they aren't ten times more useful than they ever could be as shadow.

  7. #27

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by xourico
    its AMAZING how ppl keep comparing class X with Y... stop that nonsense, dont u see thats pathetic?

    otherwise the game would all be the same jezz...

    AND AGAIN, if dispersion is weak what do u call most of the hunter 51 pointers? not to mention other 51 pointers that have no pvp use watesoever... at least urs has pvp and pve uses...

    and yes I play a priest too, and a warrior, and a druid, and a paladin... and dispersion IS FAR FAR away from being sh1t talent.

    and again, stop with the frekin comparisons.... if u want to compare anything cross class compare 51 talent points, not other crap...
    To be honest, I think Dispersion is mainly a DEBUFF in Arena.
    Only the fact someone thinks that, proves it's a bad (PvP) talent.
    But maybe you want to learn why..
    Well, Shadow Priest plays ONLY double DPS (yes, only.).
    Now, double dps NEVER finishes mana. So, forget about the mana.
    90% and 6 seconds silence.. Double dps must burst an opponent while controlling the other.
    You see, Dispersion avoids both: you can't burst nor control.
    It has only one utility (that's why I said: NEARLY useless): against double DPS.
    But not so great anyway..
    Yes, it's the worst talent ever seen, I'm sad I'll never get it.

    Btw, comparing classes has sense tbh.
    Noone is saying that classes should be the same or similar. NOONE.
    BUT, it's clear that if many classes can basically do your 51 points talent, it's a bit "shit". Right?

  8. #28

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Just a friendly Panda Reminder: Arena is being balanced around 3vs3, not 2vs2.
    Please don't, EVER, use 2vs2 setups as reason for anything.

    (And then, read up for my comment about PvP)
    I mainly play 2v2 -_-
    And yes, I use it as reason.
    And no, Shadow Priests don't exist in 3v3 at all.
    And 3v3 is already quite balanced.
    And 2v2 is going to be balanced in this patch too (Warriors and Druids not buffed a lot, differently from Warlocks, Disc Priests, Mages, Pallys, and maybe someone else).
    AND, if someones doesn't work in 2v2, probably it will do not work in 3v3 aswell.

  9. #29

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt


    Its not nearly the worst 51 point talent out there, Bacon of Light and Riptide anyone?

    You have no idea what the Spriest mana issues will be in raiding with the mad VT nerf so it might be useless, might be a pve godsend. In pvp it doesn't look very promising...but not many 51 pointers are that great for pvp, I think you are just disappointed because the holy and disc 51 pointers are OP, whilst this one is simply balanced.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  10. #30

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    And 95% of the posters haven't been in Sunwell, so their opinion means nothing to me.
    For someone who complains about mana issues but doesnt have Meditation, your opinion means nothing to me.

    See http://nihilum.mousesports.com/forum...ow-priest.html

  11. #31
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Its not nearly the worst 51 point talent out there, Bacon of Light and Riptide anyone?

    You have no idea what the Spriest mana issues will be in raiding with the mad VT nerf so it might be useless, might be a pve godsend.
    Godsend so far.

    mmmm bacon. brb, getting the rest of my pizza.

    For someone who complains about mana issues but doesnt have Meditation, your opinion means nothing to me.
    Fail trolling, read the thread and you'll know what I'm on about.

    Not to mention, we won't have meditation for the last month of raiding *cry*

  12. #32

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    But certain things rarely happend in the initial raid dungeons, such as Spell Pushback, or Heavy AoE on the raid.

    While you surely you could though Karazhan, Gruul's Lair, SSC and Tempest Keep without having abilities like Improved Shadowform, they become extremly viable and important for Black Temple and Sunwell Plateau.

    If you read the discussion about improved Vampiric Embrace, this apply to the same ruleset. It's no shame to respec according to your level of progress, and to your group setup.

    A example for Holy is Spell Warding. Again something that is semi-useless (5 points, Holy Tier2) for Tier4/5 bosses, but almost a requirement to do Gurtogg Bloodboil (5th boss in Black Temple), and almost all bosses in Sunwell Plateau.
    Hmm.. So, what you're saying is a 51 point talent should only really be useful in the final tiers of raiding. The places where the majority of the 11million+ wow players will not see and therefore not really ever find the use for that?

    Personally I think a 51 point talent should be a talent that a person wanting to spec in that tree should not want to be without. If I'm a shadow priest I expect to go "Finally I can pick up Dispersion. just like I did down every major point increment.

    YES. 11 points in Shadow - Mind Flay!
    YES. 21 points in Shadow - Vampiric Embrace!
    YES. 31 points in Shadow - Shadowform!
    YES. 41 points in Shadow - Vampiric Touch!

    Every x1 talent so far has been something to take whether you're a pvp or pve player. Now we have Dispersion for 51 points. Unless I see a mahoosive use for it in raids I won't be taking it. It would be a waste of a talent point I can spend elsewhere. I have played with the talent on both my own priest and a premade at 80 on the Beta and not once have I used dispersion apart from the first time I took it to see what the animation looked like.

    As for Imp Shadow Form, there's only 1 fight I can think of where I would find it particularly useful in BT, and that's RoS. I didn't make it to SWP (still farming BT for gear to hopefully down some before wotlk) but apart from one encounter I've never taken enough raid dmg to loose much casting time to make the 2 points worthwhile.

  13. #33

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by antidan
    Its not nearly the worst 51 point talent out there, Bacon of Light and Riptide anyone?

    You have no idea what the Spriest mana issues will be in raiding with the mad VT nerf so it might be useless, might be a pve godsend. In pvp it doesn't look very promising...but not many 51 pointers are that great for pvp, I think you are just disappointed because the holy and disc 51 pointers are OP, whilst this one is simply balanced.
    51 Disc OP?
    I'll be pvp disc in 3.0, and I will not get that..
    Desperate prayer is quite >
    But anyway, Disc Priests have been buffed enough
    (too much I would say, they'll raise in arena ratings)

  14. #34

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Also for someone who takes the "Im in Sunwell" excuse, wheres your Hand of A'dal title? You arent even exalted with Ashtounge which means you either quit (not likely since you post too much) or you just recently got carried into a guild. And I really hope you dont raid in that S2 gear.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Hmm.. So, what you're saying is a 51 point talent should only really be useful in the final tiers of raiding. The places where the majority of the 11million+ wow players will not see and therefore not really ever find the use for that?
    No, but I'm saying it'll scale ALOT better in Sunwell than Karazhan.

    I didn't make it to SWP (still farming BT for gear to hopefully down some before wotlk) but apart from one encounter I've never taken enough raid dmg to loose much casting time to make the 2 points worthwhile.
    Sunwell got annoying much spellpushback. Enough to make 2 points there worthwhile (likewise with Improved VE.)

    Also for someone who takes the "Im in Sunwell" excuse, wheres your Hand of A'dal title? You arent even exalted with Ashtounge which means you either quit (not likely since you post too much) or you just recently got carried into a guild. And I really hope you dont raid in that S2 gear.
    Fail trolling , again.

    I raided up to M'uru on my druid, took a summer break, and now back on playing my priest. (In another guild, on another server.)
    I love armoury comments, you think I raid with a Riding Crop as well?

    Here, this should satisfy your disbelif: http://web27190.web08.talkactive.net...708_201507.jpg

    Now /shoo

  16. #36

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Lhevindovelh
    51 Disc OP?
    I'll be pvp disc in 3.0, and I will not get that..
    Desperate prayer is quite >
    But anyway, Disc Priests have been buffed enough
    (too much I would say, they'll raise in arena ratings)
    Nvm penance is not that great. DP is though lol.

    By the way, whoever made the meditation mana issues comment, no Spriest on live has mana issues which would demand getting meditation, its kinda the cheap way out if i recall. My spriest is pvp only, but our raiding priests stopped taking meditation after we downed IC the first time.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  17. #37
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    By the way, whoever made the meditation mana issues comment, no Spriest on live has mana issues which would demand getting meditation, its kinda the cheap way out if i recall. My spriest is pvp only, but our raiding priests stopped taking meditation after we downed IC the first time.
    I do, but there's several factors included. Zinge is just trying to do personal attacks on me.

    Same reason I asked a community that knows me a little more than this one.
    To avoid all the silly comments.

    People would also say it's wrong to only have 3 points in Shadow Weaving, but when you ALWAYS run 2 or even 3 shadowpriests in a raid, it's not.
    Raiding Talent Builds is very setup dependant, so I think personal attacks on such issues is pretty pathetic.

  18. #38

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    No, but I'm saying it'll scale ALOT better in Sunwell than Karazhan.
    Sunwell got annoying much spellpushback. Enough to make 2 points there worthwhile (likewise with Improved VE.)
    A talent that reduces damage taken will not "Scale" it will only become useable. And if I were a developer I couldn't justify creating a talent that may come in handy if people manage to take on Arthas. Again, imp shadowform will only come in useful for soloing and maybe high end instances (if we are to compare the WotLK raids with TBC) another pointless 2 points spent.

    Also you keep saying that when the patch arrives we won't have meditation anymore?! How you figure that out? My priest should be specced as follows

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...10305150301330

    But move the 2 points in Imp Shield with Imp Fort since that talent sheet isn't up to date. I get meditation see :P

  19. #39
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity
    except for shadow weaving being a self buff... :P
    I was talking, live ;-)
    But you're right about that part. I still think 2/3 will do, atleast for now.

    My idea for a 70 build looks like this: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bcZZGcfVRrzfiqfzio

    Also you keep saying that when the patch arrives we won't have meditation anymore?! How you figure that out? My priest should be specced as follows
    See my build above this quote.

    Anyway, since we're working on Kil'jaeden (the ultimative pushback fight) I'll need both Improved Shadowform and Dispersion. And due to how we run our raids, I'll also need 2/2 in Imp. VE.

    I CANNOT understand how you can miss out on 5/5 Mind Blast, don't you use spellhaste?

    Also, you won't be able to keep your mana up without Vielded Shadows, since Potion Sickness goes live with 3.0. So uhm yeah...

    But move the 2 points in Imp Shield with Imp Fort since that talent sheet isn't up to date. I get meditation see
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest is updated to latest.

    I just copied my wowhead url from my guild forum

  20. #40

    Re: Dispersion Is staying as a bad 51 pt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    I was talking, live ;-)
    But you're right about that part. I still think 2/3 will do, atleast for now.
    ye, when i pressed 'post' i noticed u said only 3 points... so i figured u were talking about live :P
    2/3 should be fine @ wotlk i guess

    thinking i'm gonna get meditation @ 3.0.2. anyway, unless they dont 'fix' the 'bugged' judgement of wisdom (giving mana back everytime u dmg the target, 'outregening' replenishment by a lot atm on ptr)

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