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  1. #1

    Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Two updates in a day ? Almost feels like christmas !

    Echoes of Doom Update
    Originally Posted by Nethaera (Blue Tracker)
    Echoes of Doom, the new World of Warcraft content patch that sets the stage for the upcoming release of Wrath of the Lich King, is now live. The patch brings many changes and additions to the game, including the new achievements system, the inscription profession, changes to class and buff mechanics, new talents, and more.

    Since the release of the patch, we have experienced some realm instability as many players logged in to the game for the first time and began to access the new achievement system, resulting in a large amount of data being transferred at once. This led to a variety of issues, including player disconnects and general lag within the game. We have since applied optimizations to improve these issues, and we expect stability to continue to improve in the coming days.

    During the initial instability, some players experienced a loss of mounts or pets after attempting to add them to the new mount and pet interface. We have since resolved this issue and will continue to replace lost mounts and pets for players who have experienced this problem.

    We also wanted to address the concern some players have expressed over the balance between classes now that the new talents (including the new 51-point talents), spells, and abilities are in the game. As with the Before the Storm patch released prior to the launch of The Burning Crusade, many of the changes in Echoes of Doom are intended to act as a bridge to the next expansion and are meant to give players a chance to play with some of the new changes prior to Wrath of the Lich King's release. As such, they have been designed with the 10 additional levels and new gear players will receive in Northrend in mind. While we performed balance testing for level 70 gameplay, our focus was on gameplay beyond level 70. As always, class balancing is an ongoing process, and we will continue to monitor the effects of these new talents, abilities, and spells on the overall game.

    We'd like to thank everyone for their patience during this transition, and we look forward to seeing you all in Northrend!

    Retribution Paladin Changes
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    As I stated yesterday, we are happy with Ret's PvE damage and sustatined damage in PvP, but were concerned that the burst damage in PvP could be too high. We discussed this for literally hours yesterday, which was certainly not the first time we have discussed the issue. Thus I hope these changes are not perceived as a knee-jerk reaction, but I am sure that will depend a great deal on which class you play.

    Divine Storm -- the damage was changed from Holy to Physical. As you know, Holy damage is almost never mitigated and this talent could pack a lot into a very short time. This is a nerf to the ability's damage. This change is now active on Live.

    Repentance -- this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

    Art of War -- now affects all damage done by Judgements, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm (instead of critical strike damage). Net dps should be about the same but less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13.

    Righteous Vengeance -- now applies a dot affect similar to Deep Wounds (instead of critical strike damage). This ends up being a significant buff to the ability to make up for the damage lost to Divine Storm, but is also less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13. EDIT: The dot will NOT break Repentance.

    Glyph of Crusader Strike -- now reduces mana cost (instead of increased damage on stunned targets.) We thought paladins could stack too much damage vs. stunned targets. This change will be made before Nov 13.

    We also fixed a bug with Seal and Judgement of Light that could sometimes result in too much healing.

    In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can't do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter.

    I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we've made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It's a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we'll be happy to back off some of the changes.

    On the other hand, maybe we'll see fewer BGs with 20 paladins on the opposing side and can get some reasonable feedback on all the other classes in the game.

    EDIT: To clairfy the new dot will not break Repentance.

    Small change to Master Demonologist
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)
    The Felguard magic damage reduction now extends to Holy. I believe this was hotfixed yesterday.

    Typically we don't change Holy resistance (which this is not), but it's consistent with other damage reduction abilities (which this is) to reduce all magic damage. This should help warlocks stand up to paladins in particular in PvP.

  2. #2

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Lol ret is back,thank you blizzard for not waiting until we hit 80 to test it...

  3. #3

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    "...continue to replace lost mounts and pets for players who have experienced this problem.
    "

    I opened a ticket, when to the Stable Master and still now mount. What are we supposed to do to get our mounts back?
    "Peace is a lie"

  4. #4

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Come on, guys. Like we didn't see the Ret Pally nerf was coming from miles away.

    I bet the blizzard forums were flooded with people crying about getting burst down in a few seconds in BG.

    Nothing has changed. The more ppl cries about something, the faster blizzard changes stuff.

  5. #5

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Quote Originally Posted by pkl2k
    Come on, guys. Like we didn't see the Ret Pally nerf was coming from miles away.

    I bet the blizzard forums were flooded with people crying about getting burst down in a few seconds in BG.

    Nothing has changed. The more ppl cries about something, the faster blizzard changes stuff.
    same story happened when lvl 60s got CS, and ret was nerfed because at 60 was OP, but at 70 was lolret, now at 80 is gonna happen the same

    also the more you QQ from people does not make it go fast, Druids it took blizzard more than 8 months to fix them, when they had Godmode, and were unkillable by a single player, you needed around 5 people to kill a single resto druid... 8 months os constant QQ and no answer until now :S

  6. #6
    Deleted

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Has this gone live on EU servers, or is it only US?

  7. #7

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    a retardin of our guild bursted my druid (in pve healspecc+gear, full sunwell and t6) in about 5 seconds. hammer+1-2styles and a 5500 i-dont-know-what crit it was a bit heavy

    Retris should still do nice dmg, even after the nerf

  8. #8

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    The only change that shouldn't be there is the repentance change. That needs to be a viable CC for us in arena which it isn't now.

    Definitely like the deep wounds effect that DS gets now though, but any idea of the duration/type of dot (magic/physical). You will still do a lot of dmg, especially to those squishy clothies :P

  9. #9

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    A much needed nerf to the ret paladins burst damage...i was destroying people in av...but everytime i met up with a ret pally, i was dead in a couple seconds, without even being able to hit them. i agree with their damage being able to keep up with everyone else...but being able to chain together several attacks in 2-3 seconds doing 1.5-3k per attack...no, just no.

    i vowed to stop pvping altogether until ret pallies were fixed.

  10. #10

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Quote Originally Posted by T3KN1K
    Repentance -- this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

    WOW i understand the burst dmg being nurfed (although i would have reather seen DS stay holy dmg and be taken down to 75% of wep dmg instead of physical...just wow)
    .....
    BUT seriously the only cc that ret has and i dont consider HoJ one of them was Repentance and now it last 6 secs which means in pvp the person will sit through it instead of havin to trinket it.... LOLRET it is....

    oh and
    EDIT: To clairfy the new dot will not break Repentance.

    LOL wuts the fuking point it only last 6 secs not like its a viable cc in pvp anymore... nice going blizz for making yet another retarded change ... no surprises here
    you're just mad cuz you wont be able to 2 shot people anymore.

  11. #11

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    i still don't have my pets/mounts

  12. #12

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    It is a bloody knee-jerk change. Maybe the over-all dps is sustained, but Divine Storm as physical is just wrong.

    Regardless, the true knee-jerk is Repentance. Great, remove PvP utility from the class that's got least amount of it.

  13. #13

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Quote Originally Posted by T3KN1K
    Repentance -- this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

    .....
    BUT seriously the only cc that ret has and i dont consider HoJ one

    LOL wuts the fuking point it only last 6 secs not like its a viable cc in pvp anymore... nice going blizz for making yet another retarded change ... no surprises here
    HoJ is a phenominal CC. So is repentance @ 6 seconds. Frost nova lasts 6 seconds and I'd bet you consider it a good cc... And "I don't consider HoJ a cc". Seriously?

    Why can't people just curb their over-reaction for 2 minutes. This person isn't even close to rational. The biggest change might be the glyph and SoC change that this person didn't even notice... :

  14. #14
    The Patient
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    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    VIABLE, word of the century. You people use it way too much.
    QQ by the way

    Can't say I'm surprised, many smartasses on the forums wrote endless posts about how fine Retribution is, well you were wrong, and there's your only needed fact.

    Oh, and what's wrong is Holy Damage by itself, it should either be added to resists or just removed alltogether.
    Least amount of CC ? Ever heard of a Shaman ? Oh wait you probably didn't, because they're the least played class in WoW.


    Not everyone should have CC + Heal + Damage + Bubble + whatnot, that's what makes characters different and special, you want everyone to have the same skills ? Go play CS.

  15. #15

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahtamori
    It is a bloody knee-jerk change. Maybe the over-all dps is sustained, but Divine Storm as physical is just wrong.

    Regardless, the true knee-jerk is Repentance. Great, remove PvP utility from the class that's got least amount of it.
    Unless you call earthbind totem good PvP cc, there is yet anothr bursty class with less.

  16. #16

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Wow, all you guys QQing about the nerf already. Did you really think that doing that much burst damage in open PVP is viable to the game? Its enough to make people stop PvPing until the expansion its that bad.

    I wanted to see how long i could survive without healing against a ret pally yesterday to see what the changes were like, I was killed buy a season 2 ret pally in 4 seconds. It was retarded, and I have 440 resilience and 12k health.

    Ret pallies have a right to be on a par with every other class, no one will deny them that, but when they are ridiculously over buffed in the burst damage department it HAS to be changed for PvP. All I saw yesterday was ret pallies key mashing and killing people within seconds with no skill whatsoever. There needs to be a balance where they put out competitive DPS in PvE content while being able to have the mechanics to compete well against other classes in PvP.

  17. #17

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbiz
    Least amount of CC ? Ever heard of a Shaman ? Oh wait you probably didn't, because they're the least played class in WoW.
    If I didn't play a Paladin (since I'm a good guy and Paladins are protectors and users of Light, no evil side of them except maybe Retri kids), I'd most likely play a Shaman. They're pretty interesting, so I have no idea why more people doesn't play them.

    But at least you get a CC at 80, and a pretty good one too. Hex.

    And yes, Retri Paladins deserve a nerf. Except Repentance, that was totally uncalled for.

  18. #18

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Rogue 51pt talent.

    Disables the autoattack swings.
    Gives you 5x2 attacks.

    End result = completely bloody useless ability.
    There's a thread about it on the EU forums somewhere as well..

  19. #19

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    What everyone fails to realize is that it's extremely easy to kill a ret pally when divine shield is down. Just keep them stunlocked/rooted/silenced and they're dead. Sure, if you get close to them and you're a clothie you're dead, but is that really any different from warriors/hunters/mages (OMG MAGES) now?

    Everyone can do huge amounts of burst damage. Retadins had a bit more, so I'll be interested to see how this nerf affects me.

    In all honesty they can go on nerfing our damage, the core aspect of the class has been fixed which is MANA (JotW). I think myself and many other ret pallies will continue to be happy because of this, remembering what it was like before when we were oomadins.

  20. #20

    Re: Echoes of Doom update, Paladin and Warlock changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grangin
    What everyone fails to realize is that it's extremely easy to kill a ret pally when divine shield is down. Just keep them stunlocked/rooted/silenced and they're dead. Sure, if you get close to them and you're a clothie you're dead, but is that really any different from warriors/hunters/mages (OMG MAGES) now?

    Everyone can do huge amounts of burst damage. Retadins had a bit more, so I'll be interested to see how this nerf affects me.

    In all honesty they can go on nerfing our damage, the core aspect of the class has been fixed which is MANA (JotW). I think myself and many other ret pallies will continue to be happy because of this, remembering what it was like before when we were oomadins.
    Wow, buddy, please stop writing sensible, well thought out posts on these forums...you'll scare everyone away.

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