Thread: Holy Paladin

  1. #1

    Holy Paladin

    Whats your Holy Paladin build at 70? ???

    EDIT: What about at level 80? ???
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  2. #2

    Re: Holy Paladin

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    u can move the 2 pts from conc aura to w/e u want tbh.

  3. #3

    Re: Holy Paladin

    What about at level 80? ???

    I was thinking:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000
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  4. #4
    Deleted

    Re: Holy Paladin

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

    That's how I am doing it at lvl 80. Yes, it's pvp-centric. No, I don't have full points in spiritual focus because a few points there + improved concentration aura reduces the pushback already so much that extra points in spiritual focus is waste of talent points. (Blizzard should fix this, the two talents overlap eachother)

    It's also quite suitable for pve since I included BoK in the build. And I have learned to love Bacon. Divine Illumination has always been one of my favorites

  5. #5

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Judgements of the Pure is kind of crappy IMHO. Last thing you typically do when healing PvE is cast Judgements on the boss.

    Trying to make a build without JotP.
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  6. #6

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmageddonX
    Judgements of the Pure is kind of crappy IMHO. Last thing you typically do when healing PvE is cast Judgements on the boss.

    Trying to make a build without JotP.
    You're absolutely wrong here, judging wisdom on a boss gives you 2% mana every judge. it's pretty easy to keep refeshing judgment every 10 seconds (or 8 if you imp it) and it won't really affect your healing since holy shock is a lot more powerful (to make up for not casting a flash) and let's not go into all the other abilities that make holy pallies so damn good.

    Pre patch you wouldn't cast judgments, now you do and if you don't you're doing it wrong.

  7. #7

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by meroko
    You're absolutely wrong here, judging wisdom on a boss gives you 2% mana every judge. it's pretty easy to keep refeshing judgment every 10 seconds (or 8 if you imp it) and it won't really affect your healing since holy shock is a lot more powerful (to make up for not casting a flash) and let's not go into all the other abilities that make holy pallies so damn good.

    Pre patch you wouldn't cast judgments, now you do and if you don't you're doing it wrong.
    I agree with you. It's really a good power. I just like to stand in the background and heal. I'm just lazy :P
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  8. #8

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmageddonX
    Judgements of the Pure is kind of crappy IMHO. Last thing you typically do when healing PvE is cast Judgements on the boss.

    Trying to make a build without JotP.
    Personally, I like judging when I have the time....and with all the damned reactive heals and AOE heals other healers in my raid have, I seem to have a lot of time now.

    But I agree with you, JotP is lame. I think it's too deep in the tree and too expensive just for haste. It should have been rolled into another talent, like Enlightened Judgements. I just don't need to dish out the massive overheal faster.

  9. #9
    The Hedgehog Elementium's Avatar
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    Re: Holy Paladin

    I'm wondering how Beacon of light works out in different PvE environments.. I was healing HHM to test it out and it seems a little awkward considering he's the definition of tank and spank, with practically no Area effect damage or any serious party damage.

    I'm assuming in large raids it would be fairly powerful considering you could heal 2 tanks as the cost of one spell but it could still make for alot of confusion...

    Maybe i'm so used to FoLx5 HL FoLx5 that changes are just awkward? idk I kinda wish it went something like "all party members with in X amount of yards of the beacon are also healed for half of the healing done to the beacon of light.

  10. #10
    Deleted

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmageddonX
    Judgements of the Pure is kind of crappy IMHO. Last thing you typically do when healing PvE is cast Judgements on the boss.
    It's VERY good, you can cast judgement all the way from 40 yards distance and not only does judging help everyone attacking the boss (you can f.ex. do judgement of light -> free heals for everyone) but it will also give you haste! I personally find it darn useful

    Oh, and it makes holy paladin healing atleast somewhat different than just spamming FoL

  11. #11
    Deleted

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Elementium
    I'm wondering how Beacon of light works out in different PvE environments.. I was healing HHM to test it out and it seems a little awkward considering he's the definition of tank and spank, with practically no Area effect damage or any serious party damage.

    I'm assuming in large raids it would be fairly powerful considering you could heal 2 tanks as the cost of one spell but it could still make for alot of confusion...

    Maybe i'm so used to FoLx5 HL FoLx5 that changes are just awkward? idk I kinda wish it went something like "all party members with in X amount of yards of the beacon are also healed for half of the healing done to the beacon of light.
    HHM is the worst place ever to try Bacon out. Seriously. No one else than the tank is really taking any damage, and if the tank has even Kara gear then he isn't taking enough damage either for you to heal him. (Atleast my prot paladin fought the whole fight without a single heal, lost like 2k HP in the end)

    But, we've been farming badgers in Hellfire Citadel instances lately. My girlfriend likes to go on a rampage with Bladestorm so I just cast Bacon on the tank and heal my gf if she happens to pull agro on some mobs -> free heals for the tank too Also there are mobs who do aoe and so forth, so every time I heal anyone else the tank also gets some. I personally LOVE Bacon

  12. #12

    Re: Holy Paladin

    i like beacon at encounters like illidan p2 with the flames.

    so i make my bacon on tank 1 and heal tank 2, the other pally makes bacon on tank 2 and heals tank 1 - works pretty fine and it is (excluding the mather of the 30% life nerf) quite mana effective.

    Greetz,
    Óin

  13. #13

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmageddonX
    Judgements of the Pure is kind of crappy IMHO. Last thing you typically do when healing PvE is cast Judgements on the boss.

    Trying to make a build without JotP.
    I know this is highly situational, due to there only being 2 pallys who were both healers. but here are some numbers from last night.

    I'm a t5ish geared pally 1060 spell power, 119 mp5, 107 haste and 21% holy crit.

    Last night in a pug mag run I topped the healing meter including an swp healer purely because judgement of light. It made up for 33% of my total healing!

  14. #14
    High Overlord Xasthur's Avatar
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  15. #15

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Elementium
    I'm wondering how Beacon of light works out in different PvE environments.. I was healing HHM to test it out and it seems a little awkward considering he's the definition of tank and spank, with practically no Area effect damage or any serious party damage.

    I'm assuming in large raids it would be fairly powerful considering you could heal 2 tanks as the cost of one spell but it could still make for alot of confusion...
    The problem I had with beacon in the 10-mans I did this weekend was there was nothing for me to heal by the time I switched from "spam the tank, spam the tank" mode to "beacon and heal the raid damage" mode. Our second healer is a priest and we had a druid along for backup healing, and the amount of aoe and reactive healing going out from them made beacon a total waste of mana. If I did manage to get some raid healing off, it was mostly overheal, which means my tank got nothing out of it. :-\

  16. #16
    Deleted

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by ibnalail
    The problem I had with beacon in the 10-mans I did this weekend was there was nothing for me to heal by the time I switched from "spam the tank, spam the tank" mode to "beacon and heal the raid damage" mode. Our second healer is a priest and we had a druid along for backup healing, and the amount of aoe and reactive healing going out from them made beacon a total waste of mana. If I did manage to get some raid healing off, it was mostly overheal, which means my tank got nothing out of it. :-\
    I'd say better that way than too little overall healing Sure, holy paladins lack in some ways, but if you keep judgement of light up on the boss you will get surprisingly much healing done without actually doing anything yourself :P

  17. #17

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Óin
    i like beacon at encounters like illidan p2 with the flames.

    so i make my bacon on tank 1 and heal tank 2, the other pally makes bacon on tank 2 and heals tank 1 - works pretty fine and it is (excluding the mather of the 30% life nerf) quite mana effective.

    Greetz,
    Óin
    This is exactly the sort of thing I've been wanting to try out myself, but unfortunately we haven't been able to do BT for two days because the damn instance servers are broken on my realm right now! >

    Hopefully we'll get a shot at him tonight....

    Not quite locked down on what holy build I'll go for at 80 yet, but it'll almost certainly include Beacon of Light, probably something like this:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

  18. #18

  19. #19

    Re: Holy Paladin

    Judgements of the Pure is kind of crappy IMHO. Last thing you typically do when healing PvE is cast Judgements on the boss.

    Trying to make a build without JotP.
    But I agree with you, JotP is lame. I think it's too deep in the tree and too expensive just for haste.
    Fail pallies is fail.


    No offense >.> well, ok, that's silly to say =P Feel free to feel offended if you must, but trying to be better is an option too ^,^

    Really though, haste is your friend. Hug the haste. Love the haste. If you are not going to go heavy haste, you may as well curl up and die, re-roll, or go ret (or prot, there's been such a shortage of tanks for awhile, and prot's sounding pretty fun for those who like the tanky-tank). There is ONLY one downside to haste, and that is that haste has negative scaling to efficiency and mp5 based regen... and I'll be back to that in a second.

    The positives to haste are many. For one, all of your spells cast faster. This means that in the 6s CD window of CoH, you can actually help that priest top off the raid, instead of casting on a couple people and then suddenly everyone else is back full again, and you have no more Beacon of Light soakers. Instant cast spells are also only as fast as the people casting them. Haste is what allows you to land a holy light when the tank takes a 12k hit and Light's Grace isn't procced because some moron at blizzard decided to remove downranking without fixing Light's Grace to proc off more than just Holy Light (thanks oodles for that one).

    I haven't read anywhere whether SoW is now proc per swing or proc per minute, but it feels like proc per swing without sitting down and testing properly. Haste... increases your swing timer too, now! (well, Seals of the Pure specifically does for that matter, but you get the idea)

    Which brings us to our next subject. Regen. mp5 is dead. Long live the new % based seal of wisdom. Yes, read the tooltip. 4% per proc. Please don't fail by saying you should be standing back at 40 yds (unless some AoE effect makes it prohibitive for ANY melee) when you can weave at least *enough* melee swings between casts (especially with... yes... more haste) to be regening mana pretty fast. Forget mp5, other than a set for the odd fight where melee can't... melee... for long periods of time. You'll get more out of throughput based stats and crit (everyone loves their holy shock crits and .7s holy lights, right?).

    Honestly it's pretty close to what you'd expect in terms of mp5 from judgements of the wise, assuming you went JotW instead of Beacon of Light. At least 300 per 5 seconds. I had previously been very pessimistic about deep holy versus JotW builds, and I'm finding I have to eat a fair amount of crow for missing the SoW change and the implications behind it.

    Finally, we come to haste versus healing (well, spellpower). "But KAAAIIITTT," you whine, "my spellpower isn't some ridiculous number anymore, I can't heal like this, everyone knows you need like 1500 spellpower to be even halfway decent!" Spellpower shmellpower. Healing... well you get it. No, you don't. Understanding why might require some math, but *basically* if you look at gems, 10 haste rating was equivalent to about 22 healing, in terms of itemization costs. I'm sure I could find a raw itemization cost table someplace but I'm being lazy. Now, that means a bit over 30 healing was 1% haste. Keep in mind, healing is affected by coefficients when you look at actual effective amounts added to spells. Also, haste scales with your current spell power... additional spell power, however, is simply additional spell power. While there *is* a point where if your spellpower were too low, haste would be of negligable benefit, you won't see it if you're wearing tier 5 or higher quality gear. Or even Tier 4 and higher, really. Haste, simply put, is better throughput per itemization point, and it's a known factor, unlike crit.

    In addition to throughput, haste means that during those times when you crossheal and yours is wasted as overheal (of course everyone has cast-cancel bound to something easy to press fast, but once you reach a certain window it's impossible to stop a heal from going through, due to latency--get quartz or another cast bar that shows where this is if you have trouble understanding, but basically by the time your stop cast message arrives, the server has already finished the cast), you can start recasting sooner. If you're in a raid absolutely swamped with healers you might have trouble, but a raid THAT swamped with healers is, honestly, a poorly constructed raid. Judge light and twiddle your thumbs or something, with the odd holy shock.

    Haste helps with movement. Less time spent on each cast is less time spent standing still is more time you have to run out of AoEs.

    15% haste is half a bloodlust, and if you badmouth bloodlust I'll badmouth you ( /angryface)! I love my bloodlust and my bloodlusty shamans who cast it ^,^ Oh yes, and I love bloodlust while I have SotP up. Flash of Lights in the range of something around .8s are hilarious.



    If I would make any solid complaint right now, it would be that I think the entire ranged judgement idea is ridiculous, when we're supposed to have a seal up the entire time while out of melee range. And a 1 minute timer on Judgements of the Pure is hardly a great incentive to actually keep judgements up, rather than recast once per minute. IMO, the deep holy tree needs a talent to allow at least ranged judging to have either personal or wider effects, hopefully based on either the seal active or the type of judgement. For instance, % based mana regen of some sort from wisdom, a light instant AoE heal from light, etc. Wishful thinking =P



    For reference, I have between 2 and 3 pieces of healing gear for every slot. My heaviest haste set is ... hmm... somewhere over 400 haste rating. I averaged around 2,400 healing per second on Illidan tonight, with an almost even breakdown between holy light, beacon of light, flash of light, and judgement of light, in about that order, in terms of % of my own healing done. Holy shock was a bit lower, and glyph of holy light came in around 4% if I remember correctly. I'll have to check, but I probably had on something around 350 haste rating, 100 mp5, 20ish crit, and a bit under 1k spell power unbuffed.


    So far as the discussion re: Illidan, I tossed BoL on one of the phase 2 tanks and proceeded to help pick up the raid inbetween weaving direct heals on the tank when needed, since the changes to circle of healing leave it feeling a bit less precise for the priests, especially with the 6s cooldown. We had a 3 group arrangement for phase 2 (center, front, and back of the grate). I also spot healed the other tank a bit. Phase 2 was my only real point of coming close to having mana issues, and I was wearing one of my mixed sets with my albatross (jewelcrafting) trinket for that. It was the only point in time I felt I needed to pot. I'm a little less peeved about having downranking taken away (with the coeffcients for lower rank spells already adjusted I don't see the point, but w/ever) with the new seal of wisdom.


    gee that got longer than I meant it to >.>

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sGAzxhzhVuMxRtacb - Current build

    I'd have taken Benediction, but since I already had BoK, I couldn't resist taking Guardian's Favor, and this originally was just a Beacon of Light trial build rather than something to commit to, I had been planning on trying out a 70 JotW build depending on how mana felt. The reduced cost on holy shock, judging, seal recasting mid fight and casting or recasting beacon probably outweighs the benefits from a faster CD on BoP at this point.

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