Keeping up debuffs as cat DPS

[Ocueto909]

So I have been coming to this website a quite a bit, and finally joined the forum community. I have been plaing a premade feral druid on beta. I have noticed atleast for me its is quite difficult to keep up mangle debuff, plus bleed affect, plus savage roar. Okay no so much difficult but rather I feel i usually cant pull of more then one maybe two shred before I start having to start the cycle again. Has anyone else felt this way? If not any pointers on what I can do to improve this?

[Dawkness]

I found that i was using shred as a OOC proc ability. Out of stealth ill just chase people, throw rake then savage roar and just spam mangle till 4 or 5 points. Then, make sure rake is on and FB. If you're a FB whore like me always make sure to Tiger's Fury after FB so u can keep Rake on. Fun stuff ;D

[Cadafi]

i didn't play on beta but i think at bosses you wont have so many problems with keeping the debuffs on... my idea is:
Mangle
Rake
Shred
(u'll need 3, max 4 CPs)
then Savage Roar
Mangle
Rake
Shred
Shred
(until 4-5 CPs)
Rip and then if you have the Rip glyph you wont have to worry bout the bleed effect for the bonus dmg on Shred coz as far as i heard you even have time to unleash a FB and (maybe) new SR and regain 4-5 CPs b4 Rip fades from your target... well if Rake is doing decent dmg then my whole tactic ruins

[Dawkness]

Well they significantly raised the damage of Rake from what was it...like 400 dmg over 9 secs to 1200+ over 9 secs so for the energy cost its now worth using. I need to do more testing but i was finding that Rip was completely out of my rotation now. With Rend and Tear, over time you'll get more dmg out of FB even tho its an energy dump which as I mentioned above using Tiger's Fury after a FB can help with that. Anyone else got any good rotations?

[ajthebest1]

Try this:

Mangle
SR
Rake
Shred until 5 cp or until Rake / SR is about to fall off
Rip while SR is still up

repeat.

[Swiftly]

i posted this on an earlier thread... so i went fishing for it, to re-post it. there is a lot of information.

Shred
Rank 9
lv80
Shred the target, causing 225% damage plus 742.5 to the target. Must be behind the target. Awards 1 combo point. Effects which increase Bleed damage also increase Shred damage.
60 Energy, 5 yd range, Instant

Mangle - Cat
Rank 5
lv80
Mangle the target for 200% normal damage plus 634 and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from bleed effects for 12 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
45 Energy, 5 yd range, Instant

Glyph of Mangle
Major Glyph
Classes: Druid
Requires Level 50
Use: Increases the duration of Mangle by 6 sec.
**for a total of 18 seconds. life is good!

for those that dont know you do not need a BLEED on the target to increase shred. you only need to keep the debuff from mangle on the target. the only questionable action is with Rend & Tear (R&T).

Rend and Tear
Rank 5/5
Increases damage done by your Maul and Shred attacks on bleeding targets by 20%, and increases the critical strike chance of your Ferocious Bite ability on bleeding targets by 50%.

now is Mangles debuff considered a bleeding effect or does one have to use rake to apply an actual bleed to get the bonus from R&T. if and only if rake is a must to get the R&T bonus then yes you have to work in rake into the rotation. but it is better to use RIP as a bleed effect then rake... sure you will not get the R&T bonus till after the first rip has been applied but it is well worth to use Rip then Rake.

Rake
Rank 7
lv78
Rake the target for [ 1% of AP + 190 ] bleed damage and an additional [ 18% of AP + 1161 ] damage over 9 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
40 Energy, 5 yd range, Instant

Rip
Rank 9
lv80
Finishing move that causes damage over time. Damage increases per combo point and by your attack power:
1 point: [ 6% of AP + 828 ] damage over 12 sec.
2 points: [ 12% of AP + 1422 ] damage over 12 sec.
3 points: [ 18% of AP + 2016 ] damage over 12 sec.
4 points: [ 24% of AP + 2610 ] damage over 12 sec.
5 points: [ 30% of AP + 3204 ] damage over 12 sec.
30 Energy, 5 yd range, Instant

Glyph of Rip
Major Glyph
Classes: Druid
Requires Level 20
Use: Increases the duration of your Rip ability by 4 sec.

now if you notice that RIP last for 12 seconds and with the glyph it will extend to 16 seconds. good question is does the total damage spread over 16 seconds vs 12 seconds or does it add another tick for an increase in total damage that rip does. either way you have to factor the time to keep RIP alive while keeping Savage Roar alive at the same time.

Savage Roar
Rank 1
lv75
Finishing move that increases attack power by 40%. Lasts longer per combo point:
1 point : 14 seconds
2 points: 19 seconds
3 points: 24 seconds
4 points: 29 seconds
5 points: 34 seconds
25 Energy, 100 yd range, Instant

with Glyph of RIP you can get 2 rips PER Savage Roar with a toal of 4 seconds to spare. IF and only IF you was able to get a 4/5 CP with in 4 seconds to use savage roar then rotation to apply a RIP. this might work with elite feral DPS druids with very very high crit rate, but very very doubtful. Glyph of Rip in my opinion is better for PvP then PvE.

with out Glyph of RIP. you can apply 2 rips (24seconds if applied back to back) every savage roar with 10 seconds to spare... which makes this a rotation with in a rotation.

Mangle > shred (till 5 CP) > Savage roar
... now you have 5 seconds to apply RIP
Mangle > Shred (till 4/5 CP) > RIP (last for 12 seconds)
... now you have 12 seconds to reapply second RIP
Mangle > Shred (till 4/5 CP) > RIP (last for 12 seconds)
... now you have 5 seconds to apply Savage roar, which starts us back at the beginning of the rotation.

first rotation will increase AP while the second & third rotations will give chance for rend & tear. the first rotation you can...
Mangle >Rake > shred (till 5 CP) > savage roar
...so you have a chance to get rend and tear in early but you will rely on rip to keep rend & tear time applied alive.

NOTE: since RIP can not be reapplied on top of it's self you can use Ferocious Bite if and only if you have time to build another 4/5 CP before the applied rip ends. also use Tiger's Fury when needed to maintain rotation.

[Malfuron]

The one AJ posted seems to be the best based on Toskk's DPS calculator

A close second is also:

Mangle --> Shred to 2 CP --> Roar --> Shred to 5 --> Rip

[Morganaugh]

what about 3 cycle rotations?

All those pts invested into FB to just be pushed off at 65 would be sad ;_;

with the glyphs prolonging durations, getting more crit to build CPs faster as we lvl, why not a SR, RIP, then finish with FB while the prev' two are still up.

Right now I'm doing two cycles with RIP then FB, and the damage is definately going up on raid bosses.

[Morganaugh]

I've already gotten 10-12k FBs easily. With SR-RIP up I think it'll get insane, not to mention it would make cat rotations even more extensively complex

[Hallis]

Some great info here. I haven't gotten to raid with my cat yet but on solo mobs i was just a mangle-spammer, and then a rip or FB to clear the points depending on how much life the mob had left. But as i am going to start raiding this will help my DPS a lot.

thanks for the info

[ajthebest1]

what about 3 cycle rotations?

All those pts invested into FB to just be pushed off at 65 would be sad ;_;

with the glyphs prolonging durations, getting more crit to build CPs faster as we lvl, why not a SR, RIP, then finish with FB while the prev' two are still up.

Right now I'm doing two cycles with RIP then FB, and the damage is definately going up on raid bosses.

I was actually very interested in this rotation. Tell me if you can check it out (this is especially possible if you have glyph of rip AND 4p t7):
Mangle (regardless if you have trauma on the mob)
SR
Rake
Shred up to 4 CP
(wait) Rake
Rip
Mangle (if you do not have trauma)
SR
Shred until Rake has 2 seconds left
Rake
FB
TF (if up and from now onwards keep on cd)
Shred until Rake has 2 seconds left
Rake
Rip

Through out that rotation you can replace shreds by Mangles. I would suggest you give SR #1 priority, Rake #2 priority, Mangle #3, Rip#4, and finally Shred #5. I havn't included FB in this priority list because it all depends on how long you ahve on rip. If you have closer to 6 seconds left then it might be worth to use FB and TF right after. If you have closer to 2-3 seconds on Rip (even after glyphed which is highly unlikely) you should just wait it out. At 70 I noticed that I would get a higher dps output if I overlap Rip to make sure I can rake and not waste my CPs.

Due to the nature of Feral dps and its dependancy on OOC / crits you can't really plan out the perfect rotation, but I think the priority system takes you where you want to be. The only things you want to keep in mind is that SR / Rake and Rip having 100% uptime with FBs integrated into the rotation even if it means you wait for TF / Beserk to come up would allow you to tap your highest dps potential. I think once we get 4p t7 our dps will really shine, but I wonder how our rotation would look like once we get t8. I don't want to be stuck with 4p t7 like I was with 2p t4.

@Swiftly:
Rip is actually one of the best PVE dps glyphs you will find. It doesn't just increase the duration, but also increases the damage done. It ticks at 660 (for example) every time whether it is going to last for 12 seconds or 16 seconds. In PVP you will rarely see yourself having enough CP to use Rip when you can use FB / Maim. Druid is burst dps and Rip just doesn't do it for us in PVP especially now that every class has some sort of way of getting rid of our debuffs (Bubble, Ice block, <New rogue talent> etc).

[Morganaugh]

I've seriously been thinking of how useful 4Pc T6 will be with the SW pieces in Naxx. We can keep 4Pc T7 and T6 at the same time. Update our T6 with gems/chants.

Basically, everything from SW will be replaced either in Naxx or lvling up. I can see using the SW T6Pcs well beyond because of 15% simply scaling past. And it increases both Rip and FB. Further pushing the 3 cycle rotation idea.

I know the proc on T4 is being reduced % wise per lvl until it hits 0% at 80, but I havent seen any nerfs to the T6 effects yet.

[Morganaugh]

speaking of the T7 effects, have they fixed it so it either adds 2 or 4 seconds to the duration? 3 seconds is pretty silly for a dot that damges every 2 seconds.

[ajthebest1]

speaking of the T7 effects, have they fixed it so it either adds 2 or 4 seconds to the duration? 3 seconds is pretty silly for a dot that damges every 2 seconds.

I believe I saw 4 seconds in the latest build.

[ajthebest1]

I've seriously been thinking of how useful 4Pc T6 will be with the SW pieces in Naxx. We can keep 4Pc T7 and T6 at the same time. Update our T6 with gems/chants.

Basically, everything from SW will be replaced either in Naxx or lvling up. I can see using the SW T6Pcs well beyond because of 15% simply scaling past. And it increases both Rip and FB. Further pushing the 3 cycle rotation idea.

I know the proc on T4 is being reduced % wise per lvl until it hits 0% at 80, but I havent seen any nerfs to the T6 effects yet.

Its a good idea, but I really hope that we get upgrades rather than having to resort to using the SWP pieces.

On another note. Gear wise.. am I right to assume our dps and tanking gear will be the exact same pieces with a couple of gem differences? I've read Tossk's results and it seems that Stamina seems to be the best way to go. I might try stacking agi (just for kicks), which would mean I wouldn't really have to get 2 sets (for the most part) and just stick with that one set.

[Bullshifter]

I've already gotten 10-12k FBs easily. With SR-RIP up I think it'll get insane, not to mention it would make cat rotations even more extensively complex

On live you're seeing 10-12k FB's easily? Really? What sort of AP/buffs were you running at the time?

I'm not the most geared druid out there, but not half bad either, and the largest I've seen (non-raid) was 4200 on one of those wretched on the SSO island. Just curious, cause I want 10k FB's too, lol...

[Morganaugh]

On another note. Gear wise.. am I right to assume our dps and tanking gear will be the exact same pieces with a couple of gem differences? I've read Tossk's results and it seems that Stamina seems to be the best way to go. I might try stacking agi (just for kicks), which would mean I wouldn't really have to get 2 sets (for the most part) and just stick with that one set.

Yeah, I've seen that too. But the reasoning for taking agi > stam still holds the same. Alot of druids from top guilds have still held fast that agi is better off.

Our avoidance already scales horribly compared to other tanks past naxx lvl, it'll be kinda sucky if our only option is to scale up increadibly diminished HP.

I'm hoping for some kind of mix. Pieces I use for dps/tanking with agi in it will be great, but also having tanking only pieces set up for stam will work too. Or at least until the reasoning for a dominant stat comes up.

[Morganaugh]

On live you're seeing 10-12k FB's easily? Really? What sort of AP/buffs were you running at the time?

I'm not the most geared druid out there, but not half bad either, and the largest I've seen (non-raid) was 4200 on one of those wretched on the SSO island. Just curious, cause I want 10k FB's too, lol...

in raids. Not running around solo. largest I've gotten solo is around 6k.

[Bullshifter]

That makes me feel a little better, lol...

[Beefstyx]

in raids. Not running around solo. largest I've gotten solo is around 6k.

Same here, I got a 6500ish FB on a warlock in WSG yesterday lol. I'm sure he was like "WTF was that! bNerf druids!"