Protection paladin FAQ

[Deleted]

2) No prot paladin that is a MT would waste pts on kings, thats a ret paladin's job.

I kinda agree here. MT tanks lose way too much if they take Kings. Off-tanks could spec into Kings, but even then if the MT is not a paladin then BoSanc will benefit them more.

3) AD is useless, its an aoe tanking ability, not single target tanking. If it saves ur life single target tanking u are undegrared or ur healers are fucking up. AND it has 4/5pts

This one I disagree with. Not all fights go as planned, for example the boss might get a lucky shot with some AoE spell that causes more raidwide damage than expected. That would mean healers would spend more time healing raid than normally and AD could very well safe your life. Also if your fight takes longer than initially planned and the boss goes enrage then AD might again be the one thing that prevents whole raid wipe.

4) DG? that is such a fucking joke I wont even respond. I am not an OT, I am a MT and all you girly pally OTs need to just stfu and gtfu because we arent here to talk about riding bitch to some warrior, druid or death knight.

Throwing "stfu" and "gtfu" around (it's actually spelled "gtfo", but hey, it's your mistake) makes you look like a sad loser. And you come off as a self-righteous "I'm way too holy for you" bastard here. Your opinion is your opinion, it doesn't make it correct or more right than other opinions.

As for DG...I am not gonna spec into it. Ever. I ain't off-tanking and it does nothing good for maintanks.

Lastly, to rebutt what you say about crusade, it is still the best build for the "trash tank" role you seem to put paladins in because it does more threat on more targets faster. So dps can aoe harder. Only a bad healer, or undergeared tank would need max mitigation to survie trash pulls.

I don't have any "max threat" build myself. I have max mitigation combined with Conviction from ret tree. I need exactly 2 seconds to build enough threat that none in my groups so far has been able to rip agros off of me. If you need a specific "max threat" build to be able to do the same then I wonder what exactly are you doing wrong.

[Admetre]

I have max mitigation combined with Conviction from ret tree. I need exactly 2 seconds to build enough threat that none in my groups so far has been able to rip agros off of me. If you need a specific "max threat" build to be able to do the same then I wonder what exactly are you doing wrong.

You don't need an extra 5% crit to accomplish this either.

As far as DG is concerned it isn't an "OT" specific talent. As it stands I have progression tanked probably the 2 hardest bosses thus far, Sapp and Malygos with DG in my build, aside from Sarth +3 but I am better suited to picking up blazes and whelps. I have saved wipes on Sapp with bubbling when we get unlucky placements of iceblocks and blizzard. I have saved deaths on P2 on Malygos when he does his breath after my adds are dead.

MT + OT is so 2004, you should be working with your fellow tanks and using what is best for the situation. Tank envy no thanks.

[Deleted]

You don't need an extra 5% crit to accomplish this either.

Indeed, but I didn't even claim such. I have it there because it helps me put out slightly more DPS which helps when I am still on my mission to finish every single Northrend quest

And well, I haven't yet progressed to Northrend raiding. Don't have enough people in my guild yet, unfortunately. If it does seem like DG would be useful then I could always drop my crit chance by 2% and take DG with those points instead.

[Rozwell]

i realize this is a prot pally thread but i play holy and spec 51/20/0 for DG and i feel at least 1 holy pally in raids should have this. i have no major issues with mana regen so i choose to spec this way. i use it mainly on boss enrages as an extra shield wall. i HoS MT and bubble. stops 60% dmg on MT and 30 on rest of raid. ive seen many times when entire raid is taking a beating and i will bubble to slow down the dmg. particularly for enrages i think of maexxna and patchwerk and it seem on grobulous at the end he hits more raid members with the poison.

divine guardian is an awesome spell but i agree its not for a MT

[Deleted]

i realize this is a prot pally thread but i play holy and spec 51/20/0 for DG and i feel at least 1 holy pally in raids should have this. i have no major issues with mana regen so i choose to spec this way. i use it mainly on boss enrages as an extra shield wall. i HoS MT and bubble. stops 60% dmg on MT and 30 on rest of raid. ive seen many times when entire raid is taking a beating and i will bubble to slow down the dmg. particularly for enrages i think of maexxna and patchwerk and it seem on grobulous at the end he hits more raid members with the poison.

That's an excellent idea for holy paladins I just kinda feel the proper place for DG would actually be in holy tree, it feels kinda misplaced in prot.

[Bik]

What about the 0-56-15 spec?

[Deleted]

What about the 0-56-15 spec?

What about it?

[Sokyl]

This is the spec I currently raid with.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=201213040506

I have Tanked every boss in Naxx 10 man, most as MT, and every boss except for Thaddius, Saphiron and Kel'T in 25 man Naxx with this build. I am willing to answer any critiscm on this build, but it hasnt let me down so far.

As for Divine Guardian, which seems to be one of the recent discussions goin on, I take it for several reasons:

1. Main Tanks and Offtanks, should share the load. This being said you won't always be the best tank for the job or the only tank.
2. Some Bosses are tauntable. When our pally shield wall is on cd why not have another tank, taunt off you for 12 secs, and have you buff everyone in the raid with 30% less damage taken (within range), ( more if used with hand of sacrifice {maybe even on the tank standing in for you})
3. Situations in which a boss, becomes unnecessary to tank.. eg. Saphiron air phase, Ranged Horsemen, Gluth (other tanks, turn) etc..

I may be nice for a Holy Pally to have, but personally id rather have them spec'd for more crit and healing me for more .

If anyone has questions on my spec or anything about the bosses in naxx from a Pally tank perspective, feel free to ask. Ill try to check this forum every once in a while.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...maggus&n=Sokyl

[Evereghalo]

I kinda agree here. MT tanks lose way too much if they take Kings. Off-tanks could spec into Kings, but even then if the MT is not a paladin then BoSanc will benefit them more.

This one I disagree with. Not all fights go as planned, for example the boss might get a lucky shot with some AoE spell that causes more raidwide damage than expected. That would mean healers would spend more time healing raid than normally and AD could very well safe your life. Also if your fight takes longer than initially planned and the boss goes enrage then AD might again be the one thing that prevents whole raid wipe.

Throwing "stfu" and "gtfu" around (it's actually spelled "gtfo", but hey, it's your mistake) makes you look like a sad loser. And you come off as a self-righteous "I'm way too holy for you" bastard here. Your opinion is your opinion, it doesn't make it correct or more right than other opinions.

As for DG...I am not gonna spec into it. Ever. I ain't off-tanking and it does nothing good for maintanks.

I don't have any "max threat" build myself. I have max mitigation combined with Conviction from ret tree. I need exactly 2 seconds to build enough threat that none in my groups so far has been able to rip agros off of me. If you need a specific "max threat" build to be able to do the same then I wonder what exactly are you doing wrong.

If any of you actually planned ahead think about this:

Dodge, Parry, and Def are not on diminishing returns. We are not gonna get much more out of them. The Badge trinket only gives me half of what the static dodge is supposed to give.

DPS: Only gonna get more Sp Dmg, More Crit, and more Haste. More Armor Pen, More Crit, and higher hit so less hit on other gear.

Once tier 8 and tier 9 content hits dps will scale lineally, even exponentially if someone finds a few good tricks. We ARE NOT gonna be getting more gear that has 2 to 3 times the str. Ergo our threat is gonna remain pretty flat, and we will hit a threat cap.

I am not having a threat problem. I can pump out 8 to 10k tps fully raid buffed in 10 mans if I use all glitches to my advantage.

Of which they will be fixed, and so once everyone of your dps is in full 25man gear. and your lazy butts go for these abilities where it takes 200 dodge to get 1percent. and can not find anymore gear with BV on it. Then threat will be the way to go.

as for you gaygirly. Wow spelling gg. I feel so less holy than thou are. QQ.

If your not a complete idiot then you know this.

Also. I have 4/5pts in AD. and in 25man content it is not hard to find a DK or a druid to apply their 20%, or a prot warrior to thunderclap. If you have a dedicated OT, then they can do the reduction. because its funny all these OTs so dedicated to get DG, but you dont think there can be other OTs that take similar abilities.

Paladins are not the only off tanks.

Also in my entire time of clearing BT and SSC, the only time I ever had AD save my life is when I was about to die. AD IS an AoE tanking ability good for over agroing because the more targets on you the more it can save you because the more individual instances of damage mitigated increases total mitigation.

Also if you are expertise capped, which is not too hard, then 20% swing speed is not too needed. It is best for when a boss end up parrying you.

So in conclusion, if you raided at all in BC, dps damage will go up dramaticlly.

Only our mitigation will get better, so unless you do pick up 2 BV trinkets, high threat will be important. Because I will laugh when all the paladins suddenly have a hard time being lazy and still wanting to keep threat up when JoL gets fixed.

[Sokyl]

While Raiding 25 mans, my pally has 35,000 health when fully buffed.. this being not full epics either. If you'll read the talent, it kicks in at 35% aka:

35 % of 35,000 = 12,250 so at even 1 health lower then this amount I am gaining an extra 30% mitigation (5/5 AD) so at 1 health less like I said, it would take roughly a 16k hit to kill me, which while plausible is not very likely.

Now mix this with other abilities, like our pally shield wall... any time we drop below this threshold for its duration, very little damage is done.

I can understand you feeling it is more of an aoe tanking ability, but if you are tanking trash, you shouldn't be dropping that low at all. This is purely a talent for extra mitigation, and is only made better by our increasingly larger health pools.

Another beautiful fact is that this mitigation is seperate from our block values and other defensive stats. So you further decrease the damage done to yourself with this ability. (example 10k health remaining, 5 k hit before AD = 3500 after AD.. so 3500 - Block value {mines around 1200 in raid atm} on succesful block is 2300 damage taken.)

[Damiun]

This is what how I run now:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...Isles&n=Damiun


Now that that is out of the way, I really do like where Evereghalo is going with his build, i can definitly see the benefits of it. But I also agree that you don't want to give up the points in AD, i'm a bit reckless some times on the trash pulls and my healers really appreciate it. So how bout maybe something like this, ur giving up one percent but I think its a decent trade off.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRhoxRbx0M

[Offhand]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRhoxo remains the only necessary points you need as prot (imp HoJ taken as filler). The last 11 are just icing on the cake. Want conviction or seals of the pure? Your call, it does nothing to enhance your survivability. Even with using rank 1 Shor or JoL threat isn't an issue an will unlikely become one.

Personally, I grab PoJ for movement fights.

[casualgamerman]

I am looking to change from Ret to Prot, I am 78 and am building up an actually fairly nice set of gear. With ret spec talents and when I equip the prot gear I have (minus enchants, trinkets, wrist armor, and helm), I am about 50 defense short and 4k health short. I am sure I will be replacing many of the gear items with replacements and I think staying as ret into heroics to get more gear and emblems will help me gear up that spec more. and then have 2 decent sets of gear to use. However, I am looking at the talent tree and glyphs and I see that there are a couple variations on the same basic tree and I came up with one I think will work well. What do you guys think about this use of talent points and glyphs. I am torn over the glyphs since there are a couple nice ones like the consecrate one, that I am unsure if it would be worth dropping the spiritual attunement glyph for that instead.

I haven't done any tanking in over a year, so I am a little out of practice, but there is a need for more tanks on my server so I want to be in good shape for not only heroics but also 10 and 25 man raids eventually. let me know what you think. Be as critical as you want.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=121320040605

[Deleted]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=121320040605

Leave out seals of the pure. It seems good but the more gear you get the worse it gets. I always do most of my damage with HotR and ShoR, consecration being at third place. Corruption is doing the worst damage of all my abilities. Judgements of the just in prot tree would give you some extra mitigation which you'll never have enough of, and for example Heart of the crusader would be nice in instances for increasing the whole groups crit chance by 3%.

[casualgamerman]

Ok I can totally understand those changes and I wasn't sure avout Vengance/Corruption and how well it would work in raid situations. I had heard varying claims both good and bad.

So here is what I will shoot for talent wise and glyphs. Does anyone see anything else that should change to give me the best chance to generate great threat and survive? My goal on stats is 22k health, 540 defense, and at least a reasonable lvl of block chance, dodge and parry, with the most being block of course (have to take some damage so i get healing so i get mana back from healing).

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=121320040605


does anyone know what good % would be to see in the defense tab on the character sheet in wow for the % for block, dodge and parry, to really serve me well to mitigate damage to increase survivability.

[Deleted]

Casualgamerman: your spec looks just fine. People will love you for having BoK I don't have it in my spec because I think I can spend those points on something more useful.

Anyways, try to raise your block, dodge and parry uniformly. The more f.ex. dodge rating you have the less any additional dodge rating will benefit due to diminishing returns. I haven't bothered to find out what the actual percentage is at where it starts to hurt, but I guess you can safely shoot for 25%.

[monalin]

Casualgamerman: your spec looks just fine. People will love you for having BoK I don't have it in my spec because I think I can spend those points on something more useful.

Anyways, try to raise your block, dodge and parry uniformly. The more f.ex. dodge rating you have the less any additional dodge rating will benefit due to diminishing returns. I haven't bothered to find out what the actual percentage is at where it starts to hurt, but I guess you can safely shoot for 25%.

I would say that 25% dodge right now is about when it starts to go down. The amount of dodge it takes you to get to 26% might not be worth it. Put some more points into parry and block over dodge if you get anywhere close to 25% dodge. This is my personal preference some people would rather push the dodge to the limit i've seen some over 26% and it requires a dodge rating of close to 500.

[Evereghalo]

Agreed, at about 300 dodge rating, 22ish% I equied the trinket from badged and got just over 1% dodge, and 8%ish on use. So I can see the change. My advise to any Paladin that has 25% dodge, 20%parry, 29K HP unbuffed, and block capped (or what ever you want to call it) should focus on stacking as much Block Value and the Expertise Cap.

[Dreamkeeper]

Im having huge issues keeping me just above 26K health much less all the avoidance - are you all doing 25 mans to do this we are just doing 10 man nax and Sartharion nothing more :-[

heres my armory since my name has the funky icons in it
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r%C3%A8%C3%A3m

[Draco cracona]

Right, Dream - I personally like the extra stam on the hare, hare with two eyes and crab with one eye, one stam for the bonuses is probably the best stam you'll get out of your JC-epic gems I think tbh, and is a great combo if you're struggling for stam. That said, I'd say that you're fine for your current level tbh, I'm finding that avoidances above ~20% at a pre-raid/25 man (as I've been inactive for a month or so I've got one piece of raid gear) really starts to hurt - remember that tanking is about balancing your stats, and you're not going to hit a decent amount of stam with 25+% in all your avoidances pre-25 mans IMO. You not using any dragons eyes in your gear though, as I see you've got both earthguard items so not saving tokens for those?