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  1. #1

    Welfare raiding.

    Some thoughts.

    While everyone is busy PUG´ing BT and MH I have started wondering if this walfare raiding environment is really just a temporary thing.

    I get that Blizzard wants everyone to be able to see the raid content before expansion. Though with their history of sucking up to "the casual" I am wondering how the WotlK raiding environment will turn out. I now see alot more guilds engaging in 25-man raiding which is good. But when Blizzard acknowledge how alot more people now suddenly wants to visit their raid instances - will it then cause the general dificulty of raid instances in WotlK to drop to this mind-numbing level? The heroics are already estimated to ~30mins.
    On a totally unrelated side note, I've always seen battlegrounds as gladiatorial arenas where warriors fight in glorious combat to the death. Meanwhile raiding is walking up to someone's house, kicking down the door, kicking the shit out of their family, stealing the mother's pearl necklace then screaming out "ROLL FOR LOOT! LOL!"

  2. #2

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Translation:

    "I tink im da uber l337 and me no wan deez NOOB playerz tu get me epix!"

    "I meanz id iz lik wellfair, dey juzt giv dem away?!?!"

    "GG Blizz I go Kancel my account nuw k thx bai."

    If you had a business (thank god you don't) would you cater to 98% of your customers or 2%? Answer me honestly, then stfu.

  3. #3

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    I'd require an IQ test to use the product and be satisfied with the tiny playerbase that could actually understand how to use their brains.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  4. #4

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya
    Translation:

    "I tink im da uber l337 and me no wan deez NOOB playerz tu get me epix!"

    "I meanz id iz lik wellfair, dey juzt giv dem away?!?!"

    "GG Blizz I go Kancel my account nuw k thx bai."

    If you had a business (thank god you don't) would you cater to 98% of your customers or 2%? Answer me honestly, then stfu.
    Well, I do not agree with you that 98% of the playerbase wants a game with no challenge. And no, I will not stfu darling.
    On a totally unrelated side note, I've always seen battlegrounds as gladiatorial arenas where warriors fight in glorious combat to the death. Meanwhile raiding is walking up to someone's house, kicking down the door, kicking the shit out of their family, stealing the mother's pearl necklace then screaming out "ROLL FOR LOOT! LOL!"

  5. #5

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Hey Tigercat, lets test your IQ. What does Redundant mean?

  6. #6

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    anyway too easy raids mean the casual players will only play for 2 or 3 months then leave for a game that will hold there ADD inspired brains for a new 2 or 3 months. The game will get its difficulty back but just with the 10 and 25 man added. I just wish they would add mare then 1 tier dif. in gear and maybe add some 40+ world bosses to keep the hardcore raiders intoo the game. This would open the game up to more people but give the hard cores some thing to look forward to. Being a former hard core and now a asshat scasual I think this would bennafit both sides of the argument.

  7. #7

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Why do people refer to casual players as someone who's less "skilled" in a game? What makes a casual player a worse player than a hardcore player?

    A casual player is someone who doesn't play the game extensively, prohibited by work/family or by own choice. That does not mean they are worse at playing. I've met more good casual players than hardcore players.

  8. #8

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus76
    Hey Tigercat, lets test your IQ. What does Redundant mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus76
    anyway too easy raids mean the casual players will only play for 2 or 3 months then leave for a game that will hold there ADD inspired brains for a new 2 or 3 months. The game will get its difficulty back but just with the 10 and 25 man added. I just wish they would add mare then 1 tier dif. in gear and maybe add some 40+ world bosses to keep the hardcore raiders intoo the game. This would open the game up to more people but give the hard cores some thing to look forward to. Being a former hard core and now a asshat scasual I think this would bennafit both sides of the argument.
    Redundant means quoting your second post here, AND calling you an idiot, even though you already illustrated it yourself.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  9. #9

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Heroics is WotLK are a JOKE.

    10Naxx and even 25 are arguably easier than heroics.

    WRATH OF THE CASUAL PLAYER
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  10. #10

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Normal lvl78+ dungeons are completely redundant because heroics are so easy anyone can PUG them. I have literally never set foot in a high lvl normal dungeon and breezed through heroics in blues and greens.

    Don't believe me? See for yourself:

    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  11. #11

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by sd78
    Normal lvl78+ dungeons are completely redundant because heroics are so easy anyone can PUG them. I have literally never set foot in a high lvl normal dungeon and breezed through heroics in blues and greens.

    Don't believe me? See for yourself:

    i used them for leveling, the exp is much much better than questing, though u lose some rep and if u havent done the quests already u lose some of the new release feel.

  12. #12

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    LOL...where did Blizzard state this exactly?

    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  13. #13

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    It's common sense, the beta is only open for a few months, so they want people to gear up and test everything ASAP, and if that means cutting some damage output and other things to test the mechanics then they will do that.

    If they opened the beta with the same difficulty as the first 4-5 months of TBC, you would have very few people running the instances, and not enough people actually "testing" anything since they need the gear to do it. Mindless running lower end stuff for weeks just to get gear to run the higher ones. Maybe get enough to do a 25 man. By the time you find 25 geared people in a beta that hard, the beta would be nearly over.

    Look how long it took already for 25 people to down malygos?

    Just saying.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans nocturnus's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya
    Translation:

    "I tink im da uber l337 and me no wan deez NOOB playerz tu get me epix!"

    "I meanz id iz lik wellfair, dey juzt giv dem away?!?!"

    "GG Blizz I go Kancel my account nuw k thx bai."

    If you had a business (thank god you don't) would you cater to 98% of your customers or 2%? Answer me honestly, then stfu.
    I couldn't have said it any better myself. A game should be fun, not a continuous grind towards 'progression'.

    edit: ragga awesome sig

  15. #15

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilinor
    It's common sense, the beta is only open for a few months, so they want people to gear up and test everything ASAP, and if that means cutting some damage output and other things to test the mechanics then they will do that.

    If they opened the beta with the same difficulty as the first 4-5 months of TBC, you would have very few people running the instances, and not enough people actually "testing" anything since they need the gear to do it. Mindless running lower end stuff for weeks just to get gear to run the higher ones. Maybe get enough to do a 25 man. By the time you find 25 geared people in a beta that hard, the beta would be nearly over.

    Look how long it took already for 25 people to down malygos?

    Just saying.
    I sincerely hope you are right though I am yet to see a Blizzard confirmation of the issue.
    On a totally unrelated side note, I've always seen battlegrounds as gladiatorial arenas where warriors fight in glorious combat to the death. Meanwhile raiding is walking up to someone's house, kicking down the door, kicking the shit out of their family, stealing the mother's pearl necklace then screaming out "ROLL FOR LOOT! LOL!"

  16. #16

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Blizz has stated several times that instances are down-tuned and will be harder in live. Just look through the front page posts on mmo-champ and you should find them.

    What others have responded makes sense. Blizz would want to test for bugs and problems with mechanics. Tuning it later on is easier once everything wors as intended

  17. #17

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus76
    Hey Tigercat, lets test your IQ. What does Redundant mean?
    The irony is delicious.

  18. #18
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by dummenumse
    Well, I do not agree with you that 98% of the playerbase wants a game with no challenge. And no, I will not stfu darling.
    QFT. I like to see a challenge, and while being able to see KJ is nice, it's no challenge getting to him. Twins were more difficult than M'uru for us this week, simply because we got tanks that can do 1K single target and the adds pose no challenge for us. I did get to tank Brutallus this week for the first time ever. I died when he had ~900K HP left (i believe 2 healers out of 8 DCed) and they still managed to kill him before he stacked MS too high. That's how much they want us to see more content. We've managed to get 3 others in the first week, and they're now on farm for us.

    I've been challenged by Kalec pre patch and it was not always a definate kill, despite having him on farm for months before we killed Brutallus (we got him 17 mins left in the raid before servers went down for patch 3.0).

    While i've never been a casual raider, after over a year of mostly-raiding (going all the way from kara right upto killing Kalec personally), it's nice to have 4 weeks off of it and just enjoy it. It's given me chance to grind out the rep for the horde factions, as well as enjoy BG's more, mainly because i'm a lot more PvP viable. In just under 3 weeks the level grind starts again, and while i'm still raiding, i'm enjoying it now because it's made me relax, and not get so stressed that if i do enjoy it and relax, it won't be a boss kill, or i'll actually spend more time at the GY in BG's than actually fighting.

    You've got to see, while i enjoy a challenge, taking a break from it once in a while is so welcome.
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  19. #19

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    My guild started 25 mans in March and only raids bout 9 hours a week. I think we did pretty good getting up to 5/6 SSC, 2/4 TK and 1/5 Hyjal. I wish we would have had more time before WoTLK to continue progressing. It is at least some consolation to be able to see more of the TBC end game content before WoTLK.

  20. #20
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare raiding.

    I would like to see the opinion of people who never had a chance to progress beyond Kara or SSC and now (possibly) can do Mt H or BT. Do you enjoy it? Because..(and this is the honest opinion in our guild after we did Kara ---> Illidan icluding ALL attunements), we now finally killed Kalecgos. Something we were clos to pre-3,0 but couldn't do. we also killed Brutallus.

    But it felt shallow and "undeserved"

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

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