Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Scarab Lord cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    4,533

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by sd78
    Welfare Epics ruined the game in BC.

    Literally ANYONE could get handed free epics for doing nothing by farming 10 arena games a week (losing most of them) and going AFK in BGs.

    Shortly after BC went live, I raided up to SSC/TK on my Druid and was amazed how people I knew were horrible at PVP were running around with S1 gear that they 'earned' by screwing around in arena for less than an hour once a week. Some of the weapons people could easily farm from S1 where better than ANYTHING you could get in Kara (which was still pretty challenging at that point).

    I stopped raiding due to timezone differences and leveled my Rogue from 60 on my other server during season 2. Once I hit 70, I casually screwed around in arena and after 4 weeks I got handed the 97dps S2 offhand which was one of the three best offhands in the game at the time. For doing nothing. LITERALLY doing nothing.

    Basically, to get a 97dps offhand you could either:

    1- Join a raid guild (difficult for a Rogue) and down Moro in SSC, hoping that you'll have enough DKP or pull with the officers to get it

    2- Max out Blacksmithing, join a raid guild and spend a small fortune on mats to make Blazefury

    3- Casually screw around in arena for an hour once a week and get handed the S2 weapon after four weeks...


    That pretty much killed raiding for me. Why bust your ass learning new content when you can get handed epics for doing nothing?

    I've never been in ZA and smirk at the losers wasting their time wiping for a 95dps 1h weapon that's inferior to Welfare Epics. I've never set foot in Mt Hyjal, BT or SWP and don't intend to because eeven the top end epics aren't that much better than Welfare Epics you can get handed for free.

    I read this twice, just to make sure I got it right. I just keep thinking, if this is your attitude towards WoW, why are you playing?

    WoW isn't about getting the 107.5 dps weapon - and it certainly isn't about measuring time vs reward regarding gear. WoW is a deeply interactive game where people come to have fun, play with friends and take on new challenges. You make it sound like work. I'm proud that my guild downed Vashj. I could give a rats ass about who got what gear - it's the success, the effort, that really matters. And having fun while doing it.

    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  2. #42

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darshy
    funny you mention "oh well"

    because that's what the casuals deserve to be told.

    don't have the time to get the best gear? oh well. go play rock band or something, where you can play however long you want.
    Don't have time in your busy raiding schedule for friends, family or a relationship? Oh well, there's always masterbation.

    *nb* I know not all Hardcore raiders are like this, however someone wants to throw stereotypes around, then i shall throw them back.

  3. #43

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya
    Translation:

    "I tink im da uber l337 and me no wan deez NOOB playerz tu get me epix!"

    "I meanz id iz lik wellfair, dey juzt giv dem away?!?!"

    "GG Blizz I go Kancel my account nuw k thx bai."

    If you had a business (thank god you don't) would you cater to 98% of your customers or 2%? Answer me honestly, then stfu.
    Noob players shouldn't get epics, or at least not good ones. If you can't learn to spec, and use green gems because its your favorite color, yet still can acquire the same gear as people who actually strive to get the most out of their toon....

















    ... then the game sucks more than Runescape. Yes, I'll still buy it, but there is a relatively low chance they'll get more than two game cards from me before I quit, compared to steady renewal since The Burning Crusade was released. Lets look at the math, shall we?

    $50.00 for Wrath of the Lich King.
    $30.00 x3 for game cards.
    -------------------------------
    $140.00 from me because a game was too easy.

    Or.

    $50.00 for TBC (was it 49.99 or was it 39.99 at release? can't remember.)
    $30.00 x(20 Months/2)
    -------------------------------
    $350.00 from me because the game had re-playability. Hard to think I even spent that much, shit.




    10 Million Players such as myself, playing steadily for a year, casual and hardcore, equals 3.5 Billion dollars.

    20 Million Players, only playing for four months because a game is easily beatable?

    2.8 Billion dollars.


    While mathematically it is impossible to calculate accurately, due to the ever changing human nature (i.e. people who quit even though a game has massive re-playability, or people who continue to play even though a game has none), it still becomes quite apparent that Blizzard is better off appealing to BOTH hardcore and casual. Appease just one or the other, and your game becomes too difficult for your average Joe, or too easy, causing you to lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars in membership fees.

    If the game becomes easier than TBC, it will fail, guaranteed. Many will look else where, and Blizzard knows this. Probably why they are working on that secretive, just recently acknowledged, new franchise-based MMO.

  4. #44

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby
    I read this twice, just to make sure I got it right. I just keep thinking, if this is your attitude towards WoW, why are you playing?

    WoW isn't about getting the 107.5 dps weapon - and it certainly isn't about measuring time vs reward regarding gear. WoW is a deeply interactive game where people come to have fun, play with friends and take on new challenges. You make it sound like work. I'm proud that my guild downed Vashj. I could give a rats ass about who got what gear - it's the success, the effort, that really matters. And having fun while doing it.


    Thank you for your message. It warms my heart to know that someone has fun playing this game. imo...if you aren't having fun doing what you're doing....stop...do/play something else. we don't need any more bad attitudes..

    my 2ç

  5. #45

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby
    I read this twice, just to make sure I got it right. I just keep thinking, if this is your attitude towards WoW, why are you playing?

    WoW isn't about getting the 107.5 dps weapon - and it certainly isn't about measuring time vs reward regarding gear. WoW is a deeply interactive game where people come to have fun, play with friends and take on new challenges. You make it sound like work. I'm proud that my guild downed Vashj. I could give a rats ass about who got what gear - it's the success, the effort, that really matters. And having fun while doing it.

    It's about challenge and reward.

    What's the point of busting your ass in a raid guild when you can get better gear handed to you for free?

    In Classic, I started raiding with my first serious guild when they had just cleared MC and I progressed with them over several months all the way through BWL, AQ40 and early Naxx. The time difference meant I couldn't raid with them consistently, so I leveled my Rogue to 60 and was an Officer in guild that hadn't cleared ZG and stuck with them to the end of MC (at which point the expansion was released). It was fun and rewarding, but the main thing is that at the end I earned kickass gear that was out of the reach of casual players who wanted epics for doing nothing.
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  6. #46

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus76
    Hey Tigercat, lets test your IQ. What does Redundant mean?
    www.google.com

    -_-

  7. #47

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    There should be a a "Heroic" version of raid for the hardcore, and maybe even a "Lunatic" level for those that the Heroic version is to easy.

    Normal = 100% damage - 100% HP
    Heroic = 150% damage - 150% HP
    Lunatic = 200% damage - 200% damage

    If you could manage to down a boss of a Lunatic raid you would of course have to get better loot

    First you quest to get up to lvl. Then you do Normals and Heroics to get better gear and learn to play your roll.
    Then start raiding going through the teirs. Ill admit I have all the Welfare PvP gear, But I never raided with it I used to to survive while farming/dailies.


  8. #48

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    I've done both ... pre-nerf raiding, and post-nerf raiding...

    pre-nerf raiding - on my priest trying hard to keep my gear repaired and full buffs was part of the fun of raiding. we got to bloodboil and i got burnt out on raiding.

    played some PVP on my shaman got him all geared up without stepping foot in an instance because nobody wants an enhancement shaman.

    post-nerf raiding - on my shaman.. its a grab bag of loot, doing kara in 2 hours a week easier than PVP, joining a guild and running SSC/TK/BT/HYJAL in one week its a loot grab-bag.. SR on mother? lol no thanks... we just zerg her down as we lose 3 players every 30 seconds.. she died with 4 people up at the end... council? another zerg fest.. the guild has never cleared hyjal, and never past the 1st boss in BT pre-nerf is now easily rolling up to illidan.. we try him tonite.

    WoW right now is a loot grab.. just go in and gear... getting t6 for 7-8 people every week till WOTLK lol.. and i still haven't gotten anything (well i got that axe from naj :x) waiting for some t6 yumyum.

    It's just a game.

  9. #49

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    It's just a pre-expansion time. 2.0 was like this on the PvP side. Loot grab. If it bothers you that much that you just have to QQ about it, unsub. If it bothers you that someone who can't play as much as you do might get some epics in the new 10-mans, by all means gtfo and cancel your account, elitist a**hole. There will be more challenges. No, Naxx isn't a huge challenge for anyone who's raided before and knows how to gear. It's the beginner's raid in WotLK. If you can't grok that, too bad.



  10. #50

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    My live account expired two months ago.

    Before than, I cancelled my subscription for nine months (was playing Eve Online)and only rejoined to casually PVP and screw around on my twinks.

    With the expansion coming up, I honestly don't know whether I'll even get the damn game. It's a complete FARCE how easy the heroics and Naxx are. I respecced my DK to tank so I'd get a better prespective and out of all the heroic bosses, there are maybe 5-6 that are actually challenging.
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  11. #51

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Its fun, i did insane hardcore raiding during vannilla wow, from mc to naxx all cleared, i even skipped school (i regret it now, byebye socialization for 1 year and a half) to raid and grind stuff for raids, i loved that it was hard and we managed to be 1st on the server and all that, my gear was insanly good and managed to 1/2 shot the so called "casual" players with their punny greens (played mage), i admit, once tbc was released i hated it, it was sooooo easy to get epics, retarded bg's and honor sistem, welfare arenas and all the fuss about arena fights (wow = pve game with crappy pvp, why all that fuss about arenas i thought) the game become alot more acessible in general to the casual player and i disliked it, i hated how ppl could just zerg bwl, aq40 and naxx that had taken so many sweat and tears in the time i did it.

    And you know what? in the last a year and a half i actually like it this way, maybe i just grew up who knows (im 20 ) and honestly i love how wotlk is being made, i've been playing it since alpha altho i dont play it for 2 months now, and i really think that EVERYONE deserves the chance to see the game, we all pay the same 13euros why should the content that really matters be barred to them? just because they dont play 8h a day? for having a job, school, gf/bf? thats just retarded, the more hardcore ppl still get their 25mans, while the 10mans are there so that everyone can raid and see the content, whats wrong with it? they will get inferior gear so that the hardcore gamers can still "feel powerful", honestly i like it, specially since i wont even raid hardcore anymore, what for? might just enjoy my 2/3h a day and have fun with my rl friends.

    (i still hate their change from 40 ppl to 25 tho, will never forgive them for that!)

    anyway, grow up and understand that WoW = game = something to pass the time = something to have fun with, if you want to put stupid high amounts of effort just to have stuff that is better then anyone else's, get a job, rl is unfair and annoying enough for most ppl, dont make a game that way aswell ^_^

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    There is only one Legion.
    Posts
    4,032

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragga
    Its been stated so many times, heroics in wotlk are UNDER-tuned, mainly for testing purposes. On live they will be pumped up.
    ^ This.

    They made heroics easier to let everyone be able to complete them and report any bugs/fix to do.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    4,533

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by sd78
    It's about challenge and reward.
    If you are in it just for the reward, which was the thesis of your post that I quoted, then you're in the wrong game.

    What's the point of busting your ass in a raid guild when you can get better gear handed to you for free?
    Honestly if you are asking this question, again, you are playing the wrong game (and if I'm sounding like a Jackass, I don't mean too). Sure, gear is great - and gear rewards from working hard in raids is even better. But raiding is not about the gear (and I love's my gears ). It's about the accomplishment. Period. The gear is nice to show off and say, "hey, look what we did". But this game is not about finding the path of least resistance to good gear. And I'm a raid leader/officer in my guild - just so you know I know how hard it is to raid.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  14. #54

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    For me, I get gear to raid as opposed to raid to get gear.

    I assume the difficulty will be back for the level 80 raids.

  15. #55
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Other Side.
    Posts
    1,404

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby
    But raiding is not about the gear
    I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree. Fortunately PvP gear=terrible for PvE, and I hope this continues to be true. But before you leave that comment unattended, just ask yourself this simple question: If I were a tank (Pre-3.0), would I be turned away from a 25-man BT raid because I lacked the "gear-that-raiding-is-not-about" to successfully avoid/mitigate sufficient damage during the encounter in order to alleviate stress on the healers?

    /thread
    A typical raid leader command would be something like "Yo Scrub, why don't you YOLO 1337 yards to the left because the boss's Swag is about to hit us in 3 seconds".
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.
    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

  16. #56

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent
    I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree. Fortunately PvP gear=terrible for PvE, and I hope this continues to be true. But before you leave that comment unattended, just ask yourself this simple question: If I were a tank (Pre-3.0), would I be turned away from a 25-man BT raid because I lacked the "gear-that-raiding-is-not-about" to successfully avoid/mitigate sufficient damage during the encounter in order to alleviate stress on the healers?

    /thread
    On my Rogue, I got handed a pair of 97dps Welfare swords for doing NOTHING.

    They are better than ANYTHING in ZA.

    The 'PVP sucks for PVE' arguement really doesn't cut it, especially since Welfare Epics are usually far better than their blue PVE equivilents and the weapons are as good as anything in SSC/TK.

    For a Feral tank, the Welfare Epics are better than anything you could farm from heroics (75+ badges items excluded) or 10-mans and FAR better than the Clefthoof set I no longer need because Welfare resilience makes me uncrittable.

    I have literally never set foot in ZA and there is absolutely no reason for me to do so.
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  17. #57
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    125

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    We pugged SWP last week, managed to down kalecgos at day 1, brutallus on day 2 and felmyst on day 3.

    I myself was stuck on brutallus pre 3.0.2 with my raiding guild.

    On felmyst we had 6 people who did him before so 18 people had to learn the fight, still we managed to kill him in 1 night.. too easy? Yes!
    Paper is fine, Rock is overpowered!
    - Scissors

  18. #58

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    The 30% nerf is a slap in the face to all serious raiding guilds and cheapens what they spent months achieving.
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  19. #59

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by sd78
    Welfare Epics ruined the game in BC.

    Literally ANYONE could get handed free epics for doing nothing by farming 10 arena games a week (losing most of them) and going AFK in BGs.

    Shortly after BC went live, I raided up to SSC/TK on my Druid and was amazed how people I knew were horrible at PVP were running around with S1 gear that they 'earned' by screwing around in arena for less than an hour once a week. Some of the weapons people could easily farm from S1 where better than ANYTHING you could get in Kara (which was still pretty challenging at that point).

    I stopped raiding due to timezone differences and leveled my Rogue from 60 on my other server during season 2. Once I hit 70, I casually screwed around in arena and after 4 weeks I got handed the 97dps S2 offhand which was one of the three best offhands in the game at the time. For doing nothing. LITERALLY doing nothing.

    Basically, to get a 97dps offhand you could either:

    1- Join a raid guild (difficult for a Rogue) and down Moro in SSC, hoping that you'll have enough DKP or pull with the officers to get it

    2- Max out Blacksmithing, join a raid guild and spend a small fortune on mats to make Blazefury

    3- Casually screw around in arena for an hour once a week and get handed the S2 weapon after four weeks...


    That pretty much killed raiding for me. Why bust your ass learning new content when you can get handed epics for doing nothing?

    I've never been in ZA and smirk at the losers wasting their time wiping for a 95dps 1h weapon that's inferior to Welfare Epics. I've never set foot in Mt Hyjal, BT or SWP and don't intend to because eeven the top end epics aren't that much better than Welfare Epics you can get handed for free.

    So you raid for Epix? Hmmm that makes you Hardcore? Makes you greedy to me.

  20. #60
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Other Side.
    Posts
    1,404

    Re: Welfare raiding.

    Hell I raid for the epics to continue further INTO raiding. I'm afraid NOT raiding for them simply cannot be done as a tank, where you're required to be able to avoid/mitigate a certain level/amount of damage to ease the pressure off healers. However, PvP "welfare" gear is crap for serious, dedicated paladin/warrior tanks, so I don't PvP. Not to mention most PvP gear lacks hit that melee/caster dps need, so in essence MOST PvP gear=crap for PvE. Sure, you'll crit a lot, but how often will you miss instead?
    A typical raid leader command would be something like "Yo Scrub, why don't you YOLO 1337 yards to the left because the boss's Swag is about to hit us in 3 seconds".
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.
    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •