"Not another QQ Thread" (HOLYDIN VERSION)

[Chrisda19]

Decided to post this here, taken from my post on the WoW forums but too many "YAY NERFS F U PALLIES LOL YOU SUCK NOW FYEAH MAGES ARE GREAT LOLFACEROLL" posts coupled with "QQ loliquit" posts so here it is.

EDIT: TL;DR is at bottom

First off, let Retribution Paladins talk about their own problems.

I've been Holy for over 3.5 years now. Since then I've only worked with three heals my entire "career".

TBC presented high hopes for changes to the Holy Tree for me, when I saw that the only addition was Holy Shock, well...I guess you could say I was shocked all right. The spell sucked, a lot honestly. I never really used it even though I talented it unfortunately and I never really saw a reason to put it in my rotation (PvE strictly, I hardly PvP'd anymore and only have recently begun to do so sparingly).

Now WotLK is ~2 weeks~ away and what I've come to realize is were slowly, subtly, and surely coming straight back to the issues presented after TBC release. It's even gotten to the point where some guilds are even choosing RET over Holy to heal groups because they are just plain better AND can DPS well. See this post here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...04116&sid=2000

The following are unresolved for HOLY PALADINS.

1) DPS issues: We seem to lack any form of honest DPS, and have lacked it since the beginning of WoW. I figured after seeing a few posts by Blues saying that this is definitely a concern, we wouldn't see abilities used by Holy Paladins being downgraded; well as of 9138 I'm sorry but that happened..Why?

2) Mobility: At first I welcomed with a warm heart Infusion of Light. Instant Holy Lights were a great addition to our overall healing capacity even in intense AoE situations (see 2nd Boss in Magister's Terrace). Then that too was downgraded and reduced our mobility again to just Holy Shock.

3) Healing output: I will not lie, in single target only healing, we may very well be king/queen. But overall, I know for a fact that we are sub par healers compared to the rest. Now even Shamans have a HoT and what do we have? Nothing nearly as good as the rest of the classes that's for sure. I even had to start relying on Judgement of Light of all things just to boost my ability to heal and were talking about someone who has over 1200 spell power at the moment! But look again at the changes in 9138 and you'll see that even that, a simple judgement, has been downgraded as well...

4) AoE Situational Healing: This has been and will continue to be a Paladin's main issue when it boils down to our "greatest weakness". I have never ever had enough healing output to completely assure my groups that they'll be OK if they all get AoE damage. Albeit most of the time they do not die, but that's mostly out of shear will to spam Holy Light and pray for critical spell casts. Far too many times though I have had someone die in the process because I just couldn't afford to heal them because someone else or myself was just too important to let die. How can we really continue to play like this? Are we really going to have to stoop to that level; this isn't something I like to admit but I really do tend to favor the sacrificial death to get loot and badges over wasting a heal on someone when a tank or myself will die if I do so..

Perhaps this is TL;DR so I'll sum it up and hope you end up reading anyway:

Holy Paladins are still lacking the following required tune ups in these categories:
1)DPS (mostly solo play but group play as well I suppose)
2) Mobility
3) Healing Output overall
4) AoE Situational Healing

Feel free to flame me but seriously, we could use some help here.

Delod

Still, just a big sigh..

[makketota]

bump

[Deleted]

Hmm, the quoted post is pretty much correct, but I'd rather add a few more things there. These are concerning PvP however:

* All other healing classes can do a lot more DPS and thus they can more easily kill their opponents in BGs or arena

* All other healing classes have CC. Some have several. We have Hammer of Justice, with 1 min CD and close range.

* All other healing classes have gotten buffs to their survivability. We have been nerfed instead. How come? Well, we can't no longer bubble twice so we are a LOT more vulnerable than ever before, and even our best bubble is no longer unbreakable. Atleast ret paladins can whack us even through it. We wear plate, but that helps only against warriors and rogues. All other classes have poisons/spells/etc that armor doesn't affect.

I am not trying to make this sound like QQ, those are all valid points and you can check for yourself if you please.

I also was quite hopeful that Wotlk would actually bring us to same levels of viability as others, but I just am not seeing anything yet. I'll wait with buying Wotlk until they (Blizzard employees) actually do fulfill their promises. There is no point in buying Wotlk if I'll just be annoyed all the time by the disbalance between healing classes..

[Ithelis]

Blizzard forgot about holy paladins cause there is so much QQ about retridins

[furium]

As of right now, im at just shy of 1400 spell power raid buffed in sunwell, and im usually top 3 in meters with bacon of light, granted this is level 70 and i have no idea what level 80 holds, but as for holy in pve (at 70 not like it matters) were doing just fine imo. I hope it continues in wrath.'

As for PvP, thats just fustrating as hell, so im lucky i got a good ret set, but unfortunatly thats getting nerfed.. hopefully not to the point of it being unviable.

So to sum it up: (at 70)

PvE healing: better then prepatch imo (im not in tier 6, but im competing against tier 6 priests and shamans)
PvP: worse then prepatch, i felt like we were more competative before, then after.

[Deleted]

PvE healing: better then prepatch imo (im not in tier 6, but im competing against tier 6 priests and shamans)

Agreed. 40 yard judgements, Bacon of Light etc do help a lot. Atleast if you are smart enough to use them.

PvP: worse then prepatch, i felt like we were more competative before, then after.

Agreed here too. We were more viable before the patch.

[Someshta]

I'm also quite concerned/sad that the Holy tree seems to have been overshadowed by all the discussions about Retribution. It kind of hurts when Blizzard decides to nerf something as fundamental to the Paladin class as Seals/Judgements is when it really is only one tree that needs to be tuned down. I wasn't looking forward to leveling as Holy even before b9138.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on almost all the points you've made (I think insta-HL was a bit OP for example), but the biggest disappointment to me is that we're still spamming FoL and the occasional HL. Shock is a great panic button followed by a fast HL, but I find that trying to get HS into the rotation still isn't worth it. Beacon of Light makes my life easier in 5mans and takes a little load off of the shoulders of the other healers when in a raid, but it's not a lifesaver exactly. Being in a casual guild I'll probably get a spot as a healer even if we become the least desired healing class, but it doesn't feel very inspiring. I'd much rather come with my sisters resto druid/holy priest than with my own pally. :-[ They got so many situational spells! It's just pure fun.